Border Crisis! All the BEST Immigration Cartoons!

Transcript:

[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHi, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the CagleCast, where we're all about political cartoons. And today our topic is the border crisis. We'll look at Biden, Trump, desperate refugees, children in cages, and so much more. It's a festival of human cartoon misery. And we have four favorite editorial cartoons joining us today.

[00:00:21]Daryl CagleRob Rogers has won a ton of awards. Hey, Rob.

[00:00:26]Rob RogersGood to see everybody.

[00:00:27]Rick McKeeGood to see you, Rob.

[00:00:28]Rick McKeeGood to see you, Rob.

[00:00:28]Adam ZyglisHey, Rob.

[00:00:29]Daryl CagleRob has won a ton of awards and has worked for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette for decades before he was fired for criticizing President Trump by those bastards.

[00:00:38]Daryl CagleAnd Rob is a shining star in our profession and I'm a big fan. Welcome, Rob.

[00:00:43]Rob RogersThank you, Daryl. Appreciate it.

[00:00:45]Rick McKeeDaryl, can you say bastards?

[00:00:46]Daryl CagleI'm gonna say bastards.

[00:00:48]Rick McKeeOkay. .

[00:00:49]Daryl CagleI think this cartoon is great. Wonderful cartoon. Yeah, that's a great

[00:00:53]Rob Rogerscartoon. Thanks. Yeah. I, this was one of the cartoons that was done during my most tumultuous week at the paper, because this was the week where they were about to kill six in a row after killing like 13 earlier in the, in the year.

[00:01:05]Rob RogersAnd so this was a day when I was trying to communicate with my publisher and my editor and try to find out why they were, boxing me out. They weren't speaking to me or anything. So, I was writing this long email to them to sort of say, Hey, let's, let's get together and talk and work things out.

[00:01:19]Rob Rogersand then it was like two o'clock in the afternoon. And I realized, Oh my God, I haven't drawn my cartoon today. And so I did this really fast. But it ended up being, probably the most widely, syndicated cartoon that I, that I did that week, it got a lot of play, so.

[00:01:33]Daryl CagleWell, having them kill it and having it be widely syndicated was probably an embarrassment they didn't like.

[00:01:38]Rob RogersYeah, that's right.

[00:01:39]Rick McKeeThat's a, that's a great cartoon. I like the fact that you know, you don't even have to Say who Trump is just by your silhouette, you're able to tell who that is, you know, he's got the long tie and the hair and the puckered mouth

[00:01:50]Rob RogersI'm not the first cartoonist to use the, sort of immigrant crossing sign, uh, California sign, but I know this was Trump's policy of separating children at the border.

[00:01:59]Rob RogersIt had never been done before. Yeah. and I'm sure many of you were as outraged as I was about the whole policy and it just felt like an, an easy way of, you know, showing that, you know, that, that sort of irony of, of the caution sign.

[00:02:13]Daryl Caglemoving on to Gary McCoy, Gary McCoy has won a ton of awards including two silver Reubens from the National Cartoonist Society for magazine and greeting card cartoons.

[00:02:22]Daryl CagleHe's also a prolific magazine cartoonist. He draws two syndicated newspaper comic strips, the duplex and the flying McCoys, which is a crazy amount of work and it's great to have you back Gary. Thanks

[00:02:32]Gary McCoyDaryl and good to see you guys.

[00:02:34]Rick McKeeGary.

[00:02:35]Adam ZyglisGood to see you.

[00:02:36]Daryl CagleGary is our most

[00:02:37]Rick McKeeThat's hilarious, Gary, with him coming through his ear like that

[00:02:39]Rick McKeeand holding it in.

[00:02:41]Gary McCoyOh, thanks.

[00:02:42]Daryl CagleNext we have Rick McKee, who was the cartoonist for decades for the Augusta Chronicle in Georgia. Rick draws the comic Pluggers, and we've syndicated Rick for 20 years, and Rick is one of our podcast favorite guests.

[00:02:54]Daryl CagleWelcome back, Rick.

[00:02:55]Gary McCoyI love that, Rick.

[00:02:56]Rick McKeeI appreciate

[00:02:56]Rick McKeeit. Yeah, I did

[00:02:57]Rick McKeethis, uh, probably back around the time Biden got elected and enacted his, unaccompanied children Policies that just encouraged all these kids to flood the border

[00:03:07]Rob RogersOh, and it's also great because he likes ice cream.

[00:03:10]Rob RogersDid you see him the other day?

[00:03:11]Rick McKeeYeah, yeah

[00:03:12]Rob Rogerslicking the ice cream while talking about israeli policy

[00:03:16]Daryl CagleOkay, this is one of my cartoons, uh kids looking over the wall and Looks very tasty over there. Here's Adam Ziglis. Adam draws for the Buffalo News in New York. Adam has won a Pulitzer Prize and a ton of other prizes. Welcome back, Adam.

[00:03:29]Adam ZyglisIt's great to be here. It's good to see everybody.

[00:03:32]Gary McCoyHey. That's great, too.

[00:03:33]Rick McKeeYeah, that's a great, that's a

[00:03:34]Rick McKeegreat image.

[00:03:35]Adam ZyglisI like when I can get away with having absolutely no words in a cartoon, which is rare, these days, and with this image, like Rob was pointing out, with the policy that Trump had separating children at the border, I feel like I had to go for something that had like an emotional appeal because You know, as a father of little kids, capturing those faces, and tying it in with our symbol of immigration was, was like kind of the easiest way I could get the message across.

[00:03:59]Daryl CagleThis is great. And your caricature of her face is

[00:04:01]Daryl Caglefunny.

[00:04:02]Rob RogersYeah, it's a nice drawing.

[00:04:03]Daryl CagleOkay, This is Rivers, uh, has the Statue of Liberty with give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses. Oy vey. I'm just, impressed when other people draw crazy crowd scenes.

[00:04:15]Rick McKeeYeah, that's very clever. I hate drawing crowds. I try to avoid it whenever possible, but, um, that's great.

[00:04:20]Daryl CagleYou know, I, I get emails from people suggesting cartoon ideas and invariably it involves a crowd scene. You know, there's this one army coming in from the right, another army coming in from the left, the sky is filled with helicopters.

[00:04:32]Daryl Cagleand then there's these politicians in there. There's this one, this one, this one, this one. everybody seems to have an idea like that with no, no sense of how much work they're suggesting.

[00:04:40]Rick McKeeThat's good.

[00:04:41]Daryl CagleThis, I'm doing some Statue of Liberty cartoons here. This one is from Christo Komarnitsky in Bulgaria. And, uh, what's fun about this is that's Trump's hair in the torch. And it, and it takes a minute to kind of realize that. and I think that's wonderful.

[00:04:55]Adam ZyglisWhat's nice is it also has like, it looks like the torch is just limp.

[00:04:58]Adam ZyglisIt's, you know, it's, it's got that double kind of entendre to it, anytime you can have that juxtaposition of two images, like without saying, writing a word, I think is a, is a win from a cartoon standpoint.

[00:05:08]Daryl CagleVery European. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:11]Daryl CagleHere's one of yours, Adam. Make America freight again and send her back to France. tons of, uh, Statue of Liberty on this. And I know editorial cartoonists catch a lot of grief for drawing so much Statue of Liberty, but

[00:05:22]Adam ZyglisLook at that lazy crowd though. That's a lazy crowd. This is why I don't choose concept of crowds because of my deadline.

[00:05:31]Adam ZyglisI mean, if we had double the time to execute, I would sit there and turn the music on and draw the crowd. But

[00:05:37]Daryl Cagleyou wouldn't do it just like this and then take a nap for an hour.

[00:05:40]Daryl CagleHere's another one of yours, Adam. you've got the Trump administration saying, it should say, give me your tired and your poor who can stand on their own two feet.

[00:05:49]Adam ZyglisCould have had the foot even bigger.

[00:05:51]Rick McKeeDid you, did you say that's an actual quote?

[00:05:53]Rick McKeeIt is, yeah.

[00:05:54]Rick McKeeI don't ever put quotes in a cartoon unless it's an actual quote from someone in an administration or a public figure.

[00:05:59]Daryl CagleThat's a rule you have? Because one of the great, joys of being an editorial cartoonist is being able to put words into anybody's mouth that you choose.

[00:06:06]Adam ZyglisTrue. and, um, and usually I'm doing that every day, but when, when I can't use actual spoken words

[00:06:12]Rick McKeeYeah, it's more effective.

[00:06:13]Adam ZyglisIt's, yeah, it stings a little bit more.

[00:06:15]Rick McKeeYeah, I agree. I just didn't know that's a thing.

[00:06:17]Daryl CagleA little asterisk in there that says actual quote.

[00:06:20]Adam ZyglisI thought about that.

[00:06:21]Adam ZyglisIt's not a bad way to make sure that people don't pass

[00:06:24]Adam Zyglisthat detail over.

[00:06:25]Daryl CagleSo Gary, this one made me laugh. You've got Biden and the kids under their, uh, shiny metal blankets and Biden says, how long do they have to cook before they're ready to vote? That's hilarious. Thanks.

[00:06:37]Gary McCoyThat is hilarious. It looked like, you know, well, those Mylar aluminum things look like big.

[00:06:42]Gary McCoybaked potatoes, so

[00:06:45]Rob RogersDo you guys remember those blankets when we were in scouts? We used to get them and then they were supposedly these like space blankets that really work, but I guess they

[00:06:53]Gary McCoydo. I don't know They see yeah, they still sell them. I think for preppers or whatever online, right?

[00:06:57]Daryl CagleHere's one from our anonymous cartoonist Rivers with Joe Biden, greeting people, breaking through the wall, saying, welcome to America, illegal immigrants. Remember to vote Democrat and remember we don't believe in voter ID. So no worries. he never said that.

[00:07:10]Daryl CagleIs that Duo Shade?

[00:07:11]Adam Zyglisthe crosshatching? Yeah. Think

[00:07:12]Gary McCoyI feel like,

[00:07:13]Adam Zyglisyeah. Remember Duo Shade? Yeah. Yeah. My first like two years drawing. I had some and then it like went out of stock. I think two people bought the rest of

[00:07:21]Daryl Cagleit. ,

[00:07:21]Gary McCoyI, I just found a bottle of the activating fluid in my studio the other day.

[00:07:26]Rick McKeeThat stuff stinks.

[00:07:27]Rick McKeeUm, Well, I mean, you, you can get the same effect on Pho in Photoshop, right? Uh, so I don't know. He may be doing it

[00:07:33]Daryl Caglethat way. Yeah, quite a few cartoonists do it in Photoshop. My son does that on his comic books, I found a couple of bottles of solution in my garage the other day, and they had completely evaporated.

[00:07:44]Daryl CagleThey were nothing but dust at the bottom.

[00:07:46]Rick McKeeCrystallized, yeah. That's nasty stuff. Probably all going to get cancer from that.

[00:07:52]Gary McCoyMeth labs will do that to your fluid when you're storing it long term.

[00:07:56]Rick McKeeThat's a beautiful illustration. He's a great illustrator.

[00:07:58]Gary McCoyYeah.

[00:07:58]Daryl CagleOkay. And, here you got Dick Wright and, the front door to the White House and the butler says, the president asks you all to stop your howling as it is nap time.

[00:08:08]Daryl CagleAnd the dogs are all outside howling border, border, border, which obviously Biden doesn't hear because he's asleep.

[00:08:14]Rick McKeeThat's great.

[00:08:15]Adam Zyglisclassic feel, classic style. Dick crosshatching are real nice.

[00:08:19]Daryl CagleI have noticed how both editors and readers like any cartoon that has a dog in it.

[00:08:24]Gary McCoyWhat about a cat? Note to

[00:08:25]Daryl Cagleself. Yeah, they like, they like cats. Rick, this is yours. You've got, Biden with the come in. But no, he's fixed it to don't come in. We're not open and that doesn't look too effective.

[00:08:37]Rick McKeeYeah, I believe I do that. Uh, there was like a time that it seems to have passed when, Biden and Kamala Harris were trying to go out there and.

[00:08:44]Rick McKeeSay that they were actually not encouraging, illegal immigration. So I think that was probably in response to that.

[00:08:50]Rob RogersDid he borrow Trump's Sharpie there? Is that what that is?

[00:08:53]Rick McKeeUh, I'm going to say yes.

[00:08:55]Rick McKeei should say that the reason I read and describe all of these is that podcast also goes out to the audio platforms where people aren't looking at images.

[00:09:03]Daryl CagleAnd actually the majority of people that Watch video podcasts. They turned it on video and then they lay it down and they fall asleep without looking at it

[00:09:11]Gary McCoyThey're missing Rick's Southwest landscapes, which I love. Yeah.

[00:09:15]Rick McKeeOh, thanks.

[00:09:15]Daryl CagleSo here we've got John Darkow and Biden at the open border with a speed bump and he says I've decided to finish the southern border Well, he's finished it with a speed bump because it's very easy to get across

[00:09:29]Rick McKeethink this is one of those, issues that a lot of people across the political spectrum agree on, which is we've got a problem here.

[00:09:36]Rick McKeeI mean, Darkow is no conservative.

[00:09:38]Daryl CagleWell, as we get a little farther in, I think the difference between liberals and conservatives is that you see cartoons that are, sympathetic to the plight of the migrants from the liberals and you never see that from the conservatives

[00:09:50]Daryl CagleI can I can give you that reason when you're ready for it.

[00:09:52]Daryl CagleDaryl.

[00:09:55]Gary McCoyit's

[00:09:55]Gary McCoynot that

[00:09:55]Gary McCoywe're not Compassionate or empathetic to these people but we have laws we're a nation of laws and Just because someone wants a better life That's not an excuse to get to violate our federal laws

[00:10:06]Gary McCoyand come across our southern border.

[00:10:08]Gary McCoyAnd probably 80 percent of those people would love to walk across our border and get the same benefits and perks and everything else that the people coming across from South America and Central America do.

[00:10:22]Gary McCoyEvery day I see people just walking across, then committing crimes, murders, obviously, and flipping Americans off after they're released from custody, and it just burns me up because all the other people around the world don't get to do that. Trump separating kids from their families.

[00:10:38]Gary McCoyis not accurate necessarily because so many of those kids are being brought across by coyotes. So many of these kids are being sex trafficked and abused and young girls are being raped. In fact, their parents are sending their daughters up from South American countries with birth control pills just so they don't get pregnant by the drug cartel members who are raping them along the way.

[00:10:59]Gary McCoyThis is a terrible tragedy.

[00:11:02]Daryl CagleGary, when you look at all those thousands or millions of people crossing the border, and the vast majority of them are just people seeking a better future, and they're leaving a desperate situation, and they're struggling, and they're being abused and dying on the way.

[00:11:16]Daryl Cagledoesn't your compassion for those people as people motivate you to draw a single cartoon about that?

[00:11:22]Gary McCoyWell, I've got,

[00:11:23]Gary McCoymy, good friends and liberal counterparts doing that. my point is to represent the voice of Conservative people feel that our laws should be respected.

[00:11:33]Daryl CagleWell, your role is to draw whatever is most compelling to you about your feelings at the moment.

[00:11:38]Daryl CagleAnd it's just interesting to me that those feelings at the moment never rise to the level of your drawing a single cartoon that motivates all these other cartoonists.

[00:11:46]Rick McKeeIf I can interrupt here. I would just say, and since you got my cartoon on the screen, I think pointing out the fact that the open borders policies in this particular cartoon was about 2019 when three people died in the Rio Grande River because they were lured here, I think because of liberal policies, I think that is compassion to say, Hey, wait a minute, you know, you're, you're causing these people harm and suffering.

[00:12:09]Rick McKeeSo there's, it's sort of, there's sort of two sides to the coin. I mean, you can.

[00:12:13]Gary McCoyThat's a great point that Rick's making, because why not represent the view that illegal immigration is killing people? What about the fentanyl deaths? It's causing in our country. It doesn't do any good just to say, yeah, I have a soft heart and I feel for these people.

[00:12:29]Gary McCoyI feel for them so much that I don't want them subjected to any more of these deaths, rapes, drownings, kids who are separated at the border. We don't know if the people they're being separated from or even their family members. In fact, we know that many of them are not, that they're being handed off through sex trafficking once they're getting into this country.

[00:12:48]Gary McCoyThe drug cartels are making billions of dollars off of this. I guess it's what separates my views, again.

[00:12:54]Adam ZyglisFrom what Gary's saying, it sounds like he's acknowledging a lot of that human suffering.

[00:12:58]Adam ZyglisIt just, you don't see it in his work. I think there is a lot of common ground. It's just, everything is so politicized these days that, for instance, the separation of children at the border, conservative cartoonists or commentators don't want to criticize their conservative leaders, so they won't point that out, even though they may feel this is terrible for kids.

[00:13:14]Adam Zyglisit should just be a human issue. It shouldn't be conservative or liberal it should be just like this is a human. There's humans are suffering. We should be able to point it out Regardless of the party that's causing it.

[00:13:23]Daryl CagleSo here's a good example of this from Rob. You've got the astronaut on the moon.

[00:13:28]Daryl Cagle1969, one small step for man. And then in 2019, you've got the ice guy with the kids in a cage. And there's one giant leap backwards for mankind.

[00:13:37]Rick McKeeBut correct me if I'm wrong, those cages were left over from the Obama administration, weren't they? Well,

[00:13:42]Rob Rogersthey were not used for children, no. There were certain, cages that were, set up as barriers, but they weren't used for children.

[00:13:49]Rob RogersThis is different. but in the case of this cartoon, I mean, this was the 50th anniversary of the, the moon landing. And it just seemed like an appropriate time because this was happening at the same time to kind of look at, how far we've come and how far we haven't come, in terms of, living as humans on the planet.

[00:14:04]Rob RogersBut I think that I would take umbrage with, with Gary is that I don't think that the statistics are inflated. I think, that people were being, actively separated from their children at the border.

[00:14:16]Gary McCoyagree with some of that, Rob. I don't think the numbers are actually inflated.

[00:14:19]Gary McCoyWhen you, if you have one child who's being brought in with a sex trafficker, how do you differentiate the ones who are with, parents, you know, I mean, these kids are being brought over with a phone number and call this person is the whole system. Look, we're all ideological. I mean, that's what, you know, is great.

[00:14:36]Gary McCoyI mean, I'm often curious as to find out. what made, you know, you Rob and you Adam adopt your ideology? That's a whole different discussion because I'm actually curious about it because I know what formed me to be conservative. I as a conservative, believe that the laws should be upheld and respected and that just because someone's coming from a bad situation, again, Philippines, India, Africa, all these other countries, people don't just have the opportunity to just walk across our Southern border.

[00:15:01]Gary McCoyBut it's the damage it's doing to this country. The fentanyl deaths, the murders. And it's against the law. It's illegal. You see these people just walk across, and I'm thinking every time I see that, we're a country. And, and everything being equal is what bothers me, just because you're coming from a country that has a land pass to get here doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it right.

[00:15:22]Daryl CagleWell, I think that's the clearest difference is when you see this, you see it as unequal under the law, unequal enforcement of the law, unfair for them to break the law, and others see it as what a human tragedy on a personal level.

[00:15:35]Gary McCoySo, okay.

[00:15:36]Rob RogersAnd don't get me wrong. I think, I think. I think that immigration is a serious problem and, and the sheer numbers are unsustainable. And I think we need to reform our immigration policy. And that's first and foremost. And I blame Obama for not doing it when he had the Democrats in Congress on his side, and I blame Biden for wasting his first two years, not addressing it.

[00:15:57]Rob RogersI think there are definitely plenty of people to blame, but it's about our policy. And it shouldn't be about our humanity. Our, humanity should be the same and we should treat people with respect the same way and that may be the difference is liberals think of government as something that should be used to help those that are less fortunate.

[00:16:13]Rob RogersAnd in this case, these are very less fortunate people.

[00:16:16]Adam ZyglisI do think that there has been a shift. That a lot of liberals, and Democrats view it much more as a problem these days than they used to, and I think It's just it's an effect of of time and seeing what's going on at the border.

[00:16:28]Adam ZyglisAnd

[00:16:28]Rick McKeeI think it's also Abbott and DeSantis shipping those people to those cities up north.

[00:16:34]Daryl Cagleso Rob, Here's another one from you. You've got the U.S.A. Law enforcement agent standing at the border, holding back a sea of kids. And he says, what makes you think we'll feed, clothe, and shelter you during this humanitarian crisis?

[00:16:49]Daryl CagleHave you seen how we treat our poor and inner city kids?

[00:16:53]Rob RogersYes. See, so this was done during, this is 2014, so it was done during the Obama administration. And there were already a lot of kids coming to the border then. this is what I was talking about in terms of government. It's my view that government , should be helping these people, not, putting them to the side or, or putting them in cages or, otherwise making life harder for them.

[00:17:11]Rob RogersAnd I know everybody sort of has a different view about how much government should, should be involved in terms of welfare and, government programs. But I think we can be, uh, a very human. Kind of government and help people and I think it only makes us better and

[00:17:25]Daryl CagleI think it boils down to liberals see conservatives as heartless and conservatives see liberals as b leeding hearts.

[00:17:32]Rick McKeeYeah. I think it's very similar to the homeless problem Where if you've got a homeless person, you just go up and hand them a wad of cash. You're not helping them You're enabling them. And I think in this case, if you've got cities that are handing out prepaid debit cards, and, we're immediately taking these people and, giving them all, the rights that US citizens have, why wouldn't they flee here?

[00:17:54]Rick McKeeI mean, it doesn't make any sense. It's enabling. And it's destructive to them. It's not helping them out as far as their travels here.

[00:18:02]Rob RogersYeah, but most immigrants want to work and and one of the problems is they have trouble getting work visas And I think that that's part of the immigration policy problem We haven't solved it and congress has been sitting on their hands for decades

[00:18:14]Rick McKeeI know that most of them want to work but the talking point became That not most of them want to work that most of them want asylum Okay, show up at the border and claim you want asylum and they'll let you in and I saw a clip where MSNBC reporter went to those camps that they set up Looking for people seeking asylum because that was the thing And he walked around it was all these single young men going.

[00:18:33]Rick McKeeNo, we just want to come there and get a job

[00:18:36]Daryl CagleHere's one from Rivers. You got the house, the American dream before Biden and the house all overrun with immigrants saying American dream after Biden.

[00:18:44]Rob RogersAre those immigrants or are those homeless? This seems like he's trying to say it's it's a homeless problem now.

[00:18:50]Daryl CagleWell, I can tell you I looked up these cartoons by keyword immigration Oh, well, then it must be Rivers chose keyword immigration I threw in a batch of cartoons from Angel Boligan probably the most prominent cartoonist in Mexico.

[00:19:06]Daryl CagleHe draws for the El Universal newspaper and he's been with us for 25 years And I thought that it was interesting to see the perspective from Mexico, which, is entirely on the side of, sympathy for the migrants and, the harsh, heartless United States.

[00:19:22]Rick McKeeHe's just such a fantastic artist though.

[00:19:24]Rick McKeeI mean,

[00:19:25]Gary McCoyyeah,

[00:19:26]Rob Rogersyeah, he really is. I'm a huge, huge fan of his work.

[00:19:29]Adam ZyglisYeah.

[00:19:29]Daryl CagleHere's Uncle Sam sweeping the migrants out with a wall broom. I like

[00:19:33]Rob Rogersthe way he made the stripes disappear there.

[00:19:36]Adam ZyglisAnd he doesn't choose to color certain things. There's no need.

[00:19:39]Rick McKeeMasterful. Really.

[00:19:41]Daryl CagleThis is the wall made of skulls. Here's Trump walking along the wall, stepping on the immigrants to make them fall off.

[00:19:50]Daryl Cagleand I love it that you can draw Trump with just that little wisp of hair and you don't need anything

[00:19:54]Daryl Cagleelse to define him.

[00:19:55]Daryl CagleHere's a poor angelic, would-be migrant being burned at the wall.

[00:20:00]Daryl CagleHere's Uncle Sam, using the wall to saw Mexico away from, the rest of the continent.

[00:20:06]Daryl CagleAlso, I love that you can make Uncle Sam's head so small and minimal . And here is, our, pressures tearing the migrants apart. Anyway, there's a ton of these, and I just thought to get the perspective of the foreign cartoonists, the Latin American cartoonists, that is so different from ours, even the liberal American cartoonists, because the foreign cartoonists, Latin American cartoonists are just all about, the heart of it and the, feeling bad for individuals.

[00:20:32]Adam ZyglisIt's from, you know, it's from the perspective of the

[00:20:34]Adam Zyglismigrant always. Mm hmm.

[00:20:35]Gary McCoyBecause they're not, they don't want them in their country. I mean, Mexico obviously doesn't want because they

[00:20:41]Daryl Caglefeel sad for these people.

[00:20:42]Gary McCoyThey feel sad for them, yes. As I feel sad for them, yes. But

[00:20:46]Daryl CagleYou think he's motivated to draw this cartoon because he doesn't want this person in

[00:20:50]Gary McCoyhis country?

[00:20:51]Gary McCoyI'm not impugning Angel's motives. He's, he's amazing. I loved his show in Sant Just. He's a great guy. But, I'm saying, in general, you think they want the, the crime problem, the fentanyl problem, everything? They got. a ton of problems already. The drug cartels run the country, but

[00:21:05]Daryl Cagleyou don't see any of that in Angels cartoons or in the South American cartoons.

[00:21:10]Daryl CagleWhat you see is this,

[00:21:11]Gary McCoyI of, of course, of course, Daryl, you think they're gonna, I mean, okay. I'm not gonna impugn their motives. I'm talking about the people in general, the countries, the, the president of Mexico.

[00:21:20]Daryl CagleYou don't think that the cartoonists reflect the views of the, readership.

[00:21:24]Gary McCoyDaryl, their economies can't handle the, the numbers of illegal immigrants.

[00:21:29]Daryl CagleYeah, but that's not what these people are telling you that they care about.

[00:21:33]Gary McCoyOkay, I, well then, okay, I'm telling you I care about them, so then I should be given a, you know, pat on the back for being a compassionate person. I do care about them. In fact, I care about

[00:21:44]Gary McCoythem so much.

[00:21:44]Gary McCoyWith a kick me sign being left.

[00:21:47]Daryl CagleWe did a cartoonist trip to Mexico City where, Gary was on a panel with some, Mexican pundits, arguing the bad guys side on, on immigration. And, uh, that was just

[00:21:58]Rick McKeeHe was not arguing the bad guys side. All right. All right. Well, but I thought that was just fascinating because,

[00:22:06]Rick McKeeGary did a good job,

[00:22:07]Daryl CagleGary did.

[00:22:08]Daryl CagleAnd, and Gary kept his composure and made his arguments and the guys he was arguing against were just so filled with passion that they were just, ranting and, losing their composure.

[00:22:19]Rick McKeeThat's true.

[00:22:19]Gary McCoyMike Keefe was there, too. He was on the panel.

[00:22:22]Daryl CagleYeah, but you were the interesting one on the panel, Gary.

[00:22:25]Daryl CagleI gotta say.

[00:22:27]Gary McCoyOh, thanks. Thanks.

[00:22:27]Rick McKeeGary came well prepared.

[00:22:29]Daryl CagleGary stirred things up and really got them to lose their composure.

[00:22:33]Rick McKeeHe really did.

[00:22:34]Daryl CagleSo, this one's from Chris Wyant, and you've got the wall with a, Warner Brothers style hole in it from the character that bashed through is Trump, and it says, Immigration Bill. I think we found a new breach in our border security.

[00:22:47]Rob RogersThis looks like a recent one. Is this, is this a recent

[00:22:50]Rob Rogerscartoon?

[00:22:51]Adam ZyglisIt's another silhouette that, you know, like Rob did earlier, just that. Yeah, yeah.

[00:22:55]Rob RogersI like the part between the elbow and the arm, you know, the arm is still floating there. Just hanging there.

[00:23:00]Rick McKeeI love that drawing. I'm not, I'm not sure what the, uh,

[00:23:03]Daryl CagleAlso Trump has those kissy fishy lips and that is quite a fishy kissy lip.

[00:23:09]Daryl CagleUm, he's almost sticking out his tongue. Yeah, so here's another one of Gary's and you've got Uncle Sam shooting the migrant out of the cannon back over the wall. It's the best way to deport violent, illegal immigrants.

[00:23:22]Rick McKeeThat's great, Gary.

[00:23:23]Daryl CagleAnd, we have no sympathy for that guy because he's violent and, illegal. Here we've got Dave Wamond, and he's doing kind of a traditional cartoonist fruitcake cartoon, with them building the border wall out of fruitcakes. We're building an indestructible wall as a bonus. We finally found a use for fruitcakes. This was a Christmas cartoon.

[00:23:42]Rick McKeeYou know, you're always looking for a good Christmas metaphor that hasn't been done before, and, uh, that's That's a fun one there to use in fruitcakes. Yeah,

[00:23:49]Rob Rogersyou don't really think of the border and Christmas going together there.

[00:23:53]Daryl CagleWell, you know when it's Christmas time and the editors don't want to print anything but a Christmas cartoon, what the heck are you going to do?

[00:23:59]Rick McKeeYeah, that's great, that's a great, great I'm going to steal that one. I

[00:24:02]Rob Rogershave seen plenty of, like, Santa Claus being, abducted or captured by ICE for coming into the country illegally and that kind of thing, but the fruitcakes I've never seen.

[00:24:12]Rick McKeeWell, Dave's a funny guy.

[00:24:13]Daryl Caglethis is when I did so back in Trump time when he was getting all that grief and giving all the grief to Mexico I tell you every time I draw that Mexican eagle, I get some grief because it offends people but I love that eagle

[00:24:25]Rick McKeeWhy does it offend people?

[00:24:26]Daryl CagleBecause they're very Mexican nationalistic and it is disrespectful to their nation.

[00:24:31]Adam ZyglisMessing with the flag

[00:24:32]Adam Zyglisand their symbol.

[00:24:33]Rick McKeeThat's a lovely illustration there. Oh, I love that. I love that

[00:24:36]Rick McKeecactus and the Mexican flag. It's great. Well,

[00:24:38]Rick McKeeand this tie coming swooping down like that. It's got a lot of movement to it.

[00:24:44]Daryl CagleI like that snake too. Yeah. Two great characters and they can interact with each other on the flag. And, that's just all great fun. The cactus that he's on is fun. Uh.

[00:24:56]Rick McKeeIt's very, it's a lovely drawing.

[00:24:58]Daryl CagleOh, well, thank

[00:24:59]Daryl Cagleyou.

[00:24:59]Daryl CagleSo Rob, here's one of yours, the only caravan threatening America, and you've got the migrant caravan, but it's not migrants it's all the hateful MAGA people including the Ku Klux Klan and the Nazis and this is funny.

[00:25:13]Rob RogersYou know, it always, puzzled me when Trump would rant on on about, you know, oh, these, these are terrible people that are coming.

[00:25:20]Rob RogersThey're murderers. They're, you know, meanwhile, the people that he associated with are the people that he, championed were, were a very ugly lot. I don't know how close this was to Charlottesville, but. but I think it was probably near, that time. and of course this was when Brett Kavanaugh was, was also going through his, um, his hearings.

[00:25:39]Adam ZyglisI've got beers for Brett back there.

[00:25:41]Daryl CagleThis is one thing that's frustrating for us. We, we track how often cartoons are reprinted and, If there's ever an appearance of a swastika or a Ku Klux Klan hood, they just don't get reprinted. And, you know, when you actually have Nazis like in Charlottesville and Ku Klux Klan lining up to support Trump

[00:26:00]Daryl Cagleand you want to put that in a cartoon. It's very frustrating for the cartoonist to just not get the cartoon printed.

[00:26:05]Rick McKeeWell, not only that, nowadays, I don't know about other social media, but like Facebook, if you were to post that, just the little, uh, KKK hat, and I don't know about the swastika, but that would get you thrown in Facebook jail for posting that, even though your point is.

[00:26:19]Rick McKeeYeah. Is the opposite their little algorithms and their little bots that go around and find those images would you know, it doesn't matter

[00:26:26]Daryl CagleI think someone complains and they don't even look at it. They just got a complaint and they take it down

[00:26:32]Rick McKeeHuh could be

[00:26:33]Adam Zyglisinteresting.

[00:26:33]Adam ZyglisI've had cartoons taken down for the similar reasons like After the insurrection like having a noose in the image hang Mike Pence, and the cartoon was removed from Facebook and they didn't bring it back. yeah, it most likely is a complaint, or from a hashtag on Instagram, sometimes they'll remove a cartoon.

[00:26:48]Daryl CagleI've got four Facebook pages, and whenever I have, something removed from a Facebook page, or they freeze it and I can't update it anymore, it's always only one out of the four pages that has the same content.

[00:26:58]Rick McKeeThey need to, they need to fix that. I mean, if we're going to have super smart AI that's going to.

[00:27:02]Rick McKeetake over the world. They need to at least get that right.

[00:27:05]Rob RogersYeah.

[00:27:05]Daryl CagleOkay, this one's from Joe Heller. You've got the coyote and his truck. He's squeezing all the immigrants into the truck and he says, I'll get you across the border, Republican governors will move you on from there.

[00:27:17]Daryl Caglewhich is true. It's not a joke. It's

[00:27:21]Rob Rogerstrue. it is ...

[00:27:22]Rick McKeebut it has also sharpened this debate to the point where maybe something will happen.

[00:27:27]Adam ZyglisWell, it's, it cuts both ways because being in Buffalo, we have a huge, refugee immigrant population that's actually lifted the city.

[00:27:34]Adam ZyglisIt's added to the population growth for the first time in decades. We have this Burmese population. We have Burmese restaurants. And so even some conservatives in Buffalo will acknowledge that we need, we need this to, to grow. But then they will focus on if one crime is committed.

[00:27:51]Adam ZyglisBy an immigrant or even though the rates of crime for immigrants or, you know, asylum seekers is lower than the general population like that will turn everybody against them.

[00:28:00]Daryl CagleAre you getting bus loads from Texas?

[00:28:02]Adam ZyglisNo, they come from, we're getting, they're shipping from New York City immigrants that, they can't handle them.

[00:28:07]Adam ZyglisThe governor is sending refugees and immigrants to Buffalo. Which we want them though. Our democratic leaders want them. But they have been, you know, they need to be screened, um, and placed properly. It's not, it's just not like a, bring them all in! Like there's, policy has to be set in place and it's being debated.

[00:28:25]Adam ZyglisYou know, you've got to do it carefully, but it can be effective, if it's done right.

[00:28:29]Rob RogersSee, and I think you

[00:28:30]Rick McKeemake an interesting point. You say they have to be screened and they have to be all this, and that's not what's happening in places like, these border states. I just saw a story yesterday that said Eric Adams is moving to effectively end, New York City as a sanctuary city status.

[00:28:44]Daryl CagleWould that just be to placate Governor Abbott and, uh,

[00:28:47]Rick McKeeNo, I think it's

[00:28:48]Daryl CagleNot a sanctuary, you wouldn't send the buses there?

[00:28:49]Rick McKeeNo, no, no. I think it's, I think it's because they're having real issues with what's going on with the people that are coming there and, they can't afford it for one thing.

[00:28:58]Rick McKeeanyway, I, I just saw this story yesterday.

[00:29:00]Rick McKeeRob, this cartoon is cute. You got, Disney coming off the plane in Martha's Vineyard. I remember when they sent the plane load to Martha's Vineyard and, Mickey says Governor DeSantis sent us, and it's just funny to see the Disney characters getting off the plane.

[00:29:11]Adam ZyglisYeah, that's a great Mickey.

[00:29:16]Adam ZyglisBut I love the old school Mickey.

[00:29:18]Rob RogersYeah, I like the old school Mickey. I always draw him the old school, even, even before the, Steamboat Willie thing went out of, copyright. Now you can just do it.

[00:29:26]Rob RogersYeah. But, but I think, um, what, what was

[00:29:29]Daryl CagleThat's not a Steamboat Willie.

[00:29:31]Rob RogersNo, it's not. It's not. It's sort of the in between, in between Steamboat and the, uh, and the, and the final version. Uh, probably like the second or third one. I think what was funny to me about this was just his feud with Disney seemed so preposterous and so, Anti conservative, I mean, he's a business guy, you know He's a florida governor in a conservative state and they should be pro business, but he's going after these guys And it's just ridiculous.

[00:29:55]Rob RogersAnd so

[00:29:56]Rick McKeeI mean i'm in i'm in Florida. I have to agree. It's dumb I mean, why would you go after the biggest? Employer the biggest, you know economic draw in Florida Why would you do that? If you're a conservative

[00:30:07]Rob Rogersanyway. So when, when they, when he started shipping people to Martha's vineyard, I sort of thought, you know, I'll take it one step further and he's going to ship Disney.

[00:30:15]Rob RogersSo that was

[00:30:16]Daryl CagleSo here's another one of yours, Rob, he's holding a sign that says stop the great replacement. And the native American says too late.

[00:30:22]Rob RogersThat's exactly how I imagined you would talk. Great Indian voice.

[00:30:25]Rob RogersThat's good.

[00:30:27]Rick McKeeMeet Injun, yeah. It's like the Indian from the Peter Pan cartoon. That's

[00:30:33]Daryl Cagleright. We did get a few of them on this theory. Here's John Darkow with the Native Americans talking about the Pilgrims. He says, he asked me if I've heard anything about Great Replacement Theory. It makes a good point.

[00:30:44]Rob RogersNo, it's true.

[00:30:45]Rob RogersI mean, I think, I think it's the same thing with immigration, you know, when people talk about immigration and you have to remind them, well, you know, at one point, all of our families immigrated here, some in some form, unless we are Native American and we're, you know, most of us are not so,

[00:30:59]Rick McKeeand another beautiful drawing.

[00:31:00]Daryl CagleOh, what a beautiful drawing. This is Rick. Oh, thank you. So here you've got the, Independence Day spaceship shooting down at the White House.

[00:31:07]Daryl CagleAnd in the White House, they say, Sir, we're under attack by aliens. And, the president or someone else says, You know, we prefer the term undocumented non citizen.

[00:31:15]Rick McKeeYeah, that one, that one was fun to draw. And, uh, you know, that's, reality. They've no longer allowed to say, illegal immigrants or illegal aliens.

[00:31:23]Rick McKeeThey have to use undocumented non citizens. So that was a case of using actual quotes. Like you were talking about earlier.

[00:31:31]Adam ZyglisAnd I love the, the colors are great. It's got a great sense of space.

[00:31:34]Adam ZyglisAnd three dimensionality.

[00:31:35]Daryl CagleYou're looking so much more conservative on this topic. Than on other topics.

[00:31:39]Rick McKeebelieve it or not, I'm still conservative.

[00:31:42]Rick McKeeI'm just not Trump conservative.

[00:31:44]Adam ZyglisGod bless you.

[00:31:46]Daryl CagleAdam, I put in a couple of, Stephen Miller cartoons because

[00:31:49]Adam ZyglisOh yeah, I remember this one.

[00:31:51]Daryl CagleI just thought this was hilarious. And I, you know, it, it is a border issue cartoon, but,

[00:31:57]Adam ZyglisYou've got asylum seekers in there. So it is immigration.

[00:31:59]Daryl CagleMost people who watch the podcast. Probably don't even know who's Stephen Miller is, but this was just so funny.

[00:32:06]Rick McKeeThat is funny. That is hilarious. Miller White,

[00:32:10]Adam ZyglisMiller White, ,,, , His White Nationalist advisor. loved drawing Steve Miller because he's got those. sunken eyes. He looks like a villain movie character, you know,

[00:32:23]Rick McKeehe really does. Yeah.

[00:32:25]Daryl CagleHe does. And he's someone that should be ridiculed in political cartoons, but I just find that the readers know so few of these characters that it usually needs to be explained.

[00:32:35]Daryl CagleAnd I appreciate it when you just go for it. You don't try to explain things. there's really very few, characters like this outside of just, half a dozen people that you can draw and people are going to know who it is, even when you nail the caricature and it says Miller on it.

[00:32:49]Adam Zyglisright, right.

[00:32:50]Daryl Caglethis is, this is one from Peter Kuper which has a very different character, but he captures the same kind of Gestapo look of Stephen Miller. And, I thought this was great too.

[00:33:00]Rick McKeeThat is great. Kuper doesn't go beyond much of a, Climate change stuff these days. So that's fun

[00:33:07]Rick McKeeto see.

[00:33:07]Daryl CagleWell, the reason for that is that he's a regular in Charlie Hebdo and they've got a environmental column and his job is to illustrate the column.

[00:33:17]Rick McKeeAh, okay. Well, that makes sense.

[00:33:20]Daryl CagleAnd it runs, vertical, along the side of the column, the column on the left and the cartoon on the right or something like that.

[00:33:25]Rick McKeeOkay, well that makes sense.

[00:33:26]Adam ZyglisI like how this is vertical, which is nice. And I like the vintage comic book, theme or concept. Matt Bors always had some good vintage

[00:33:32]Adam Zygliscomic book cartoons that I enjoyed.

[00:33:34]Daryl CagleThe vertical ones work better on the Internet, on Instagram, and, we still have the editors leaving this landscape sized hole in the newspaper, and if you get a vertical one to them, they don't want to take the time or don't have the, ability to change the shape of the hole and the cartoons just don't get reprinted much in newspapers, which is what we measure.

[00:33:53]Daryl CagleSo it's very frustrating for us, I think, at a time when it would be nice that we could. Not suffer from that landscape.

[00:33:59]Rick McKeeNo, I went through that, where I was drawing my cartoons more square, for Counterpoint which is a electronic thing. And I just realized, like you say, print's not going to touch it if it's, more vertical.

[00:34:10]Rick McKeeelectronic and online, they'll, they'll run it anyway. So I just lapsed back into doing it more horizontally.

[00:34:16]Adam ZyglisI've always been more square with the Buffalo News and it's just the way his face has worked. sometimes the idea just lends itself to a vertical and you just have to work around it, reframe it, re crop it, um, Re edit it, but it'd be great to have flexibility.

[00:34:29]Adam ZyglisI see Ann Telnaes does like a vertical illustrated column sometimes with the posts, which

[00:34:33]Adam Zyglisis cool.

[00:34:34]Daryl CagleIt would be nice to have only one publication that you're working for where you could talk to them and do different things. Yeah, yeah.

[00:34:40]Daryl CagleThis is a Venn diagram with good for the country crossing over into good for Trump and Trump is Walking out of that shared area where it's good for the country and for Trump.

[00:34:50]Rob RogersI don't think he was ever inside that I think, I think the drawing is all wrong.

[00:34:57]Adam ZyglisWell, I was told by several readers that the overlap for that Venn diagram should be a little smaller, but I mean, in fairness,

[00:35:05]Daryl Cagleyou got to fit an elephant into

[00:35:07]Daryl Cagleit,

[00:35:08]Adam Zyglisthere is some overlap there, but yeah, I mean, just this self serving that equate, you know, how, loyalty does not equal patriotism.

[00:35:15]Adam Zyglisthis was in response to. The immigration bill that was going to possibly pass and Trump, who was not even elected, who's running, was basically telling the Republican party behind the scenes to kill it because it'll make him look bad if Biden gets a win. So this. was showing how, you know, blatantly now, openly, he was just doing things good for Trump when we know we could have passed this bill to help the country.

[00:35:38]Daryl CagleAnd it also looks like he's giving all the migrants MasterCards. Which they're doing in New York, right?

[00:35:44]Adam ZyglisThat was a layer that I did not intend that you picked up on there, Daryl.

[00:35:49]Daryl CagleSo gentlemen, thank you for joining us today. Do you have anything more to say about the No,

[00:35:55]Rick McKeeI think I'm all talked out.

[00:35:58]Adam Zyglisit was a great discussion and it was nice to see Daryl and Gary get at it a little bit.

[00:36:04]Rob RogersThanks for having us. Appreciate it.

[00:36:06]Adam ZyglisNo, it was fair. It was fair. You were kind.

[00:36:09]Daryl Caglekind is good.

[00:36:10]Daryl CagleAll right. very good. Good to see you guys. Hope you'll all come back sometime. Good to see you too. Remember to like and subscribe to the CagleCast wherever you're watching it, and join our mailing list at Cagle.com/Subscribe to never miss out on a new CagleCast and to catch all of the great cartoons that you should never be missing.

[00:36:28]Daryl CagleAnd, gentlemen, thank you again. Thanks for having me. Good to see you I hope you'll do it with us again, Rob. All right,

[00:36:34]Rob Rogersthanks. That was fun. See you later.

[00:36:37]Rick McKeeBye.