Jimmy Carter

Transcript:

[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHi, I'm Daryl Cagle and this is the Caglecast where we're all about political cartoons and today we have Taylor Jones. Taylor, it's great to see you.

[00:00:09]Taylor JonesThank you, Daryl. Happy New Year and I guess happy that 2024 is gone one way or another.

[00:00:14]Daryl CagleAnd, here you have a piece dove, Jimmy Carter with his, Habitat for Humanity metaphor in his feet.

[00:00:22]Daryl CagleAnd that's just lovely. Taylor, I think you are just the most brilliant caricaturist. And I just had to have you for our Jimmy Carter obituary podcast, because you have so many lovely Jimmy Carters.

[00:00:35]Taylor JonesThank you. I I'm old enough to have been drawing him. In real time when he was president and same with you.

[00:00:41]Daryl CagleHere you have Jimmy the Energizer Bunny. This is this is one of the classic editorial cartoonist metaphors because our news just is on repeat and it goes on forever.

[00:00:51]Taylor JonesOf course, as did Jimmy Carter. And this of course is the abbreviated version of the cartoon. The original, The original one was when Jimmy Carter kept passing these milestones, 90, 95, so it's like we were all ready.

[00:01:05]Taylor JonesWe're all waiting just in case. But the original, it would be on the Right hand side the cartoon be extended and you had his famous killer rabbit hiding in the,

[00:01:16]Daryl Caglethe people are not going to remember all of these things. For us, we know the killer rabbit. It led to just a whole bunch of editorial cartoons.

[00:01:24]Daryl CagleJimmy Carter was out on a boat. boat and this rabbit swam out to him and threatened him like jaws. And this was the time of the movie Jaws. And so this had a resonance with everybody. He needed a bigger boat and that was fun. But we have a problem here, Taylor, which is that our little syndicate has only been in business for 25 years.

[00:01:43]Daryl CagleSo our archives start 25 years ago and we don't have killer rabbits. We don't have anything from when Jimmy Carter was actually president, only from quite a bit after he was president.

[00:01:54]Taylor JonesTrue. And yet I am not the only person. Who has referred to the killer rabbit in cartoons that have been posted on your site.

[00:02:01]Taylor JonesAnd of course, newspaper readership, the dwindling newspaper readership out there, a lot of them are, a lot of them remember it too.

[00:02:09]Daryl CagleBut we must explain these things because we are really old. And here you have Jimmy talking to Trump. He says, blessed are the peacemakers. And Trump says only 59.

[00:02:20]Daryl Cagle95.

[00:02:20]Taylor JonesYes, of course he's holding his Trump Bible and everything's got a price tag for. The money coming directly to trump and

[00:02:27]Daryl Caglejimmy carter's age spots make me laugh.

[00:02:29]Taylor JonesYeah. He's got a lot of them. He had fair skinned lad,

[00:02:32]Daryl Cagleso we're recording this on january 2nd and on january 9th.

[00:02:36]Daryl CagleHe's going to have his big funeral procession in washington dc, so we will leave this up for a few days And tell us about this one You've got I want you to join the war on poverty from LBJ I want you to join the war on drugs from Richard Nixon and I want you to join the moral equivalent of war from Jimmy Carter,

[00:02:55]Taylor JonesThis was a piece for Hoover Digest and it was basically talking about how none of these things work.

[00:03:00]Taylor JonesThe war on poverty failed sometimes it succeeds, sometimes it fails, just often it depends on how the general economy is doing. And of course the war on drugs failed, and they were making a point too, because the Hoover Institution doesn't think much of Jimmy Carter. Maybe they give him, they probably give him kudos for the Camp David Accords.

[00:03:16]Daryl CagleWe're going to show a number of cartoons from cartoonists who still didn't have a good view of Jimmy Carter. Oh,

[00:03:22]Taylor Jonesright. We're going to, but the moral equivalent of war, which Carter made in one of his White House addresses they showed how that failed and how it should have failed.

[00:03:30]Daryl CagleAnd here you have a Mount Rushmore. That's all Jimmy Carter. We have so many Mount Rushmore cartoons and so many that are all Trump.

[00:03:37]Taylor JonesYeah. Oh, well, this one actually, I did, I drew this again, this is when he first went to the hospice. And I drew this cartoon and set it aside and then I forgot about it.

[00:03:47]Taylor JonesIn fact, I haven't posted it with you all yet, so I'm going to post it when it comes, for the Memorial Day for Carter on the 9th of January.

[00:03:53]Daryl CagleI have lots of mixed feelings about Jimmy Carter. I he had lots of pluses and minuses, but it is sad to see him go but quite a success to live to be a hundred.

[00:04:04]Daryl CagleOkay, one last Habitat for us all. This is from Steve Sack. Facing mortality with humility, grace, and courage is Jimmy Carter. And building a Habitat for Humanity house. Terrific cartoon.

[00:04:15]Taylor JonesAs always with Steve Sack, he just sums it up so, succinctly.

[00:04:19]Daryl CagleAnd here's John Darko, Jimmy banging on his Habitat for Humanity house in heaven.

[00:04:24]Daryl CagleAnd St. Peter says, Hey, Jimmy, take a break. You already earned your wings.

[00:04:29]Taylor JonesVery good is always beautifully drawn by Mr. Darkow.

[00:04:32]Daryl CagleSo here you got Pat Bagley and Jimmy's got his hammer and he's singing if I had a hammer .

[00:04:39]Daryl CagleI, that's a cute little.

[00:04:40]Taylor JonesThat's brilliant. I think. It's a brilliant perpetive thought of that and to put it down so well just just wonderful.

[00:04:47]Daryl CagleYeah, this is Adam Zyglis with Jimmy's scooping up his honesty, integrity, kindness, humanity, peace, peanuts.

[00:04:55]Daryl CagleHe's the famous peanut farmer. Here's another nice Zyglis And one of

[00:04:59]Taylor Jonesthe few, one of the few, go back a second. One of the few closed mouth characters of Jimmy Carter, because even in death, you remember his teeth.

[00:05:06]Daryl Caglehad a recognizable smile. Now that's what I call a habitat for humanity, as he's walking away from the earth that he just hammered together.

[00:05:14]Daryl CagleI'm sure that I look at him that way, but it's nice that others do. Here he is having built his wings and his halo from Rick McKee. I thought that was nice.

[00:05:24]Taylor JonesThat's nice. I, my feeling about Jimmy Carter was that,

[00:05:28]Taylor JonesHe was it's not that he was a bad president, it's that he was an ineffectual one. In some ways,

[00:05:32]Daryl CagleYou remember his presidency from the time it was just dominated by that Iran hostage crisis and all these other things that we talked about Jimmy Carter for, they were just overshadowed by that news coverage every night.

[00:05:45]Taylor JonesThat was the last year, but he had other problems with the for instance, his famous

[00:05:50]Taylor Jonesspeech, I believe was before the hostage crisis. I'm not certain about that, but in some ways, I think Carter is most reminiscent of Herbert Hoover and both were engineers and both were incredibly intelligent.

[00:06:02]Daryl CagleBecause the economy did poorly.

[00:06:03]Taylor JonesThey were in but their responses were ineffectual. And the depression took a long time to get through it, FDR was exceptionally effectual, if that's a word. And it's hard to be an effective leader if you don't have that ability.

[00:06:18]Taylor JonesAnd that's, Enough of me.

[00:06:19]Daryl CagleThat's great.

[00:06:20]Daryl CagleHere's a nice Jim Day cartoon. I miss Jim Day. He was cartoonist in Las Vegas and Kind of disappeared and if he watches this send me an email Jim. Yeah, but this is from Ratt our New cartoonist . Named Paul Tarr T A R R which kind of add to our a TT But you could call him an anonymous cartoonist.

[00:06:42]Daryl CagleWe're not listing his name in his bio. So that's

[00:06:45]Taylor JonesWhat's his name? Who's no longer with you?

[00:06:47]Daryl CagleYeah, what's his name? And this also,

[00:06:49]Taylor JonesThe guy dressed like a terrorist.

[00:06:50]Daryl CagleJimmy Carter is no longer with us. And this is from Marion Kamensky, which I thought was pretty weird. I'm not sure. So Jimmy Carter, I guess is getting a better halo than Trump is getting from Musk.

[00:07:04]Taylor JonesI guess he's getting, Trump's getting a worldly halo, and Carter's getting the otherworldly halo.

[00:07:10]Daryl CagleWorldly. Honest, kind, selfless, charitable, humble, devout, loyal, dedicated, genuine.

[00:07:15]Daryl CagleHow did he ever become president?

[00:07:17]Taylor JonesYeah, you wonder it's,

[00:07:18]Taylor JonesTo hear, of course, with Carter's passing, there was a lot of footage of, and audio of Carter in such a different time.

[00:07:25]Daryl CagleIt's nice to remember people nicely, even if we don't really feel that way.

[00:07:29]Daryl CagleJimmy Carter, 39th president of the United States by Ed Wexler, that's Ed clearly likes Jimmy Carter.

[00:07:34]Daryl CagleFine caricature of by Ed as always. And of course that is the classic old. Jimmy Jimmy Carter pose.

[00:07:41]Daryl CagleIt's interesting when when people die, all the images are when they're their oldest.

[00:07:46]Daryl CagleWhen in fact, when you're dead, you're every age you were. They could draw any age.

[00:07:51]Taylor JonesIt, I tried. It's a little, it, I don't think I pulled it off very well, but on that Mount Carter Moore cartoon I did Carter at different, I did him, I one caricature character on the left. The face on the left was.

[00:08:02]Taylor JonesWhen he was president and then the last one was at his oldest.

[00:08:05]Daryl CagleHere is Randy Enos closing the curtain on Jimmy Carter.

[00:08:08]Taylor JonesThis is a strange way to put it.

[00:08:10]Daryl CagleClosing the curtains, very standard kind of metaphor.

[00:08:13]Taylor JonesYep, I could see I could see where I don't know what to think of this one.

[00:08:16]Taylor JonesIt's I can't, I wouldn't, certainly wouldn't with all the Positive cartoons about Carter coming in. I wouldn't count this as one of them saying it's over, he's done.

[00:08:24]Daryl CagleAnd it wasn't that long ago that his wife, Rosalynn Carter died. And we had quite a few open cartoons for Rosalynn Carter.

[00:08:32]Daryl CagleThis is from John Darkow. Rosalynn Carter says, ah, wait, Jimmy and I do everything together.

[00:08:38]Taylor JonesIt's a night. It's a nice piece. And I. know I caricatured Rosalynn at least once while Carter was president, but not since.

[00:08:44]Daryl CagleYeah, here's Rosalynn lighting up the night sky. That's very nice. And Rosalyn walking off into heaven with with Jimmy on her hand.

[00:08:54]Daryl CagleAnd an ad for Wrangler Jeans.

[00:08:55]Daryl CagleThis one is Rosalynn Carter's Steel Magnolia from Rick McKee. I guess she was called a Steel Magnolia?

[00:09:02]Taylor JonesI don't know. That's the state flower of Mississippi.

[00:09:05]Taylor JonesNot Georgia.

[00:09:06]Daryl CagleVery good. Here's Rick with the Lots of get well cards for Jimmy Carter when he announced his cancer. We got a whole bunch of Jimmy Carter cartoons.

[00:09:15]Taylor JonesYeah, really people wait, cartoon has been ready for a long time.

[00:09:19]Daryl CagleWe had that problem with Nelson Mandela.

[00:09:21]Daryl CagleRemember Nelson Mandela was about to die for a whole year. And all the cartoonists were drawing Nelson Mandela obits and they were uploading them because won't the editors want to have these ready for when Nelson Mandela dies. But what happened was editors thought, Oh, Nelson Mandela must have died.

[00:09:39]Daryl CagleAnd they ran an obit cartoon. And then the readers got really angry because he wasn't dead. That was nothing but trouble for us.

[00:09:46]Taylor JonesHere's really old. That was the case with Francisco Franco and Spain as well.

[00:09:51]Daryl CagleOh, Taylor, we're so old. All right. So here's Obama looking at Jimmy Carter in his mirror. It seems like whenever a president has trouble a lot of the naysayers draw them as really being Jimmy Carter because Jimmy Carter had become this, icon for a lousy president.

[00:10:09]Daryl CagleIneffectual precedent.

[00:10:11]Taylor JonesNow that's in, that's been translated to Spanish.

[00:10:13]Daryl Caglefor a while, we had a Spanish language service

[00:10:15]Taylor Jonesand I was, the problem was

[00:10:16]Daryl Caglethe Spanish language newspapers did not pay their bills.

[00:10:19]Taylor JonesTaylor, I

[00:10:19]Daryl Cagleforget.

[00:10:19]Taylor JonesDid I

[00:10:20]Daryl Cagleread your bio on

[00:10:21]Taylor Jonesthis? No, it doesn't matter. Most of it's fake.

[00:10:23]Daryl CagleSo here is Taylor Jones, and he is a brilliant caricaturist. He draws for the Hoover Digest at Stanford University. He was the staff cartoonist for many years at the El Nuevo Dia newspaper in Puerto Rico, and he drew for many years for US News and World Report, and he's won a ton of awards.

[00:10:38]Daryl CagleWe love you, Taylor.

[00:10:39]Taylor JonesI have to say, I have to qualify this. I was never an employee of the El Nuevo Dia, and I wasn't technically on the staff, but I don't know, maybe 3, 000 pieces later, it counts.

[00:10:47]Daryl CagleThat's the nature of the way cartoonists work everywhere. So here is Jimmy Carter. That's really a pretty cute Carter.

[00:10:54]Daryl CagleHe says, I'd be comfortable, with a Romney presidency.

[00:10:58]Taylor JonesAnd, love the elephant.

[00:10:59]Daryl CagleThis was one of those quotes that led to a bunch of cartoons, worst presidents in modern American history, bad, worse, and catastrophic thinks Rivers our anonymous cartoonist.

[00:11:09]Daryl CagleHabitat for Humanity as Hamas. Oh yes, he went and talked to the Hamas people and was criticized for that. Yeah, it's, uh, in retrospect I guess they are not people that are too responsive when you talk to them.

[00:11:22]Taylor JonesDo you know if, was that before or after the October 7th massacre in Israel? I

[00:11:26]Daryl Caglethink that was about 10 years before. Okay. So here is Sandy Huffaker. I miss Sandy Huffaker. Sandy Huffaker was a great cartoonist for us for about 10 years and he passed away A number of years ago and we do miss him.

[00:11:39]Taylor JonesHe was a great cartoonist for sports illustrated as well

[00:11:42]Daryl CagleOh, he was in Time magazine Remember that?

[00:11:44]Taylor JonesHe was I

[00:11:45]Daryl Caglethat was when I was in high school and he was one of my favorites i'd buy Time magazine just for Sandy Huffaker

[00:11:52]Taylor Jonesone of the few actually older than us there.

[00:11:53]Daryl CagleWhen you're dead, you're every age my goodness.

[00:11:56]Daryl CagleAnyway, I miss Sandy. So he's got Jimmy Carter, and Jimmy Carter says, Please forgive me for saying you were the worst president. I'm so irrelevant, I'll never tell the truth again. As he wears his sackcloth and ashes. And I, I remember Jimmy Carter talking about George W. Bush as the worst president.

[00:12:13]Daryl CagleThat made for a ton of cartoons, because of course, the cartoonists agree with that. You

[00:12:18]Daryl CagleNothing to say on this?

[00:12:19]Taylor Jonesoh I'm just concentrating on Huffaker's George W.

[00:12:23]Daryl CagleThat's a wonderful George W. Here's Paresh Nath from India having Jimmy Carter laughing about Bush is the worst in history. And J. D. Crowe, Bush is the worst president ever. Yeah. I feel you, Jimmy. Some arrogant jerk is going to break my record too.

[00:12:39]Daryl CagleThis is Hank Aaron.

[00:12:41]Daryl CagleThese cartoons are so old. Bob Englehart drew Carter pointing at naked George W. Bush, and not only that, he's the worst emperor in history.

[00:12:52]Taylor JonesHe's got George W. Bush there looking like Beatle Bailey.

[00:12:55]Daryl CagleAs time went on, Bob drew George W. Bush more cartoony with bigger head and smaller body.

[00:13:02]Daryl CagleIt's interesting how presidents evolved.

[00:13:04]Taylor JonesSpeaking of that Oliphant, during Carter's presidency. Presidency kept drawing Carter smaller and smaller.

[00:13:10]Daryl CagleYes. So shorter and shorter.

[00:13:12]Taylor JonesThere's a lot of ideas. I think a lot of start from Oliphant

[00:13:15]Daryl Caglethat also happened with George W.

[00:13:17]Daryl CagleBush. And in the case of many cartoonists, he looked more and more like a monkey.

[00:13:22]Taylor JonesHe does. He's a yeah, that I portrayed him. I portrayed him as a monkey on Jeb Bush's back once. And the other time, yeah, he was he had a, he has a Simeon look about him.

[00:13:34]Taylor JonesThat's a nice way of putting it.

[00:13:35]Daryl CagleMirror on the wall. Who's the worst president of them all? That one's good.

[00:13:39]Taylor JonesNice one by Matson.

[00:13:44]Taylor JonesShrek, the worst administration in history. Watch how we stay relevant, Jimmy. This is George W. Bush is Shrek.

[00:13:51]Taylor JonesAnother Matson. I That's a funny idea. I never would have thought of him as Shrek.

[00:13:57]Daryl CagleJimmy Carter is the donkey, makes sense. And Cheney is Puss in Boots. That's funny. I like that. Remember Mike Lane? I miss Mike Lane. Yes, I do remember Mike Lane. Mike Lane was just a great cartoonist for the Baltimore Sun. Who did he draw for? For the Baltimore Sun. And he was with us for seven or eight years before he passed away.

[00:14:14]Daryl CagleAnd I miss him. He was a wonderful cartoonist who never got the attention and credit I think that he deserved. But he deserved a lot. And George W. Bush here says, Some say I'm not good enough to shine your shoes. I'm good enough to shine your shoes. What do you say, Mr. Carter? Huh? Missed the spot.

[00:14:31]Daryl CagleAnd Brian Farrington, our editor, used to be a great editorial cartoonist before he gave it up just to be an editor. Which is I think it's sad, Brian should draw cartoons again. So he's got Jimmy Carter's Bush is history, but let's not forget the Carter era, 12 percent inflation, 21 percent interest rates, hostage crisis, the sweaters, and don't forget disco.

[00:14:51]Daryl CagleIt's the only cartoon I've seen that blames Jimmy Carter for disco.

[00:14:55]Taylor JonesYeah, no, he was a disco era president. I loved disco.

[00:14:59]Daryl Cagleyou look funny with the shades. Taylor.

[00:15:02]Daryl CagleI can't stand the glare for this.

[00:15:04]Daryl CagleSo here he is with Rosalyn n being a nice Habitat for Humanity guy, and she's working on mental health.

[00:15:11]Taylor JonesVery good.

[00:15:11]Daryl CagleHere's Joe Biden painting himself Norman Rockwell style as Jimmy Carter from Dick Wright, who doesn't like Biden or Jimmy Carter, so he draws the equivalent. But a great piece. I think we've all drawn this metaphor here. Joe Heller. Actually, it's more of a club than a distinction.

[00:15:29]Daryl CagleThanks for clearing that up. President ever club.

[00:15:32]Taylor JonesThat's good.

[00:15:33]Daryl CagleHere's Rivers again. He's combined Jimmy Carter with Joe Biden.

[00:15:37]Taylor JonesThis is interesting. Pause in this a moment because yeah, he's pulled it off, he's got he's got the it's more no, I think he's, now I don't know that anybody would, without the explanation, I don't know that anybody would.

[00:15:49]Daryl CagleYeah, it needs a label to know what's going on here.

[00:15:51]Taylor JonesAnd then if you look at him,

[00:15:52]Taylor JonesHe's really pretty well combined the two.

[00:15:54]Taylor JonesHere's Dick Wright, who doesn't like Joe Biden. Jimmy, what are you up to? Why do you keep smiling? Nothing, Rosalynn. I'm just thanking God for Joe Biden. He thanks him, because, in Dick Wright's mind, Joe Biden is worse than Jimmy Carter and makes him look good.

[00:16:10]Taylor JonesGee, just thought of this and probably shouldn't say it.

[00:16:13]Daryl CagleGo ahead. I can edit it out.

[00:16:15]Taylor JonesWe may be back with Biden more cartoons before you know it.

[00:16:18]Daryl CagleOh, you think Biden's going to die soon, we're going to have all the Biden obit cartoons. They're probably going to follow these same lines.

[00:16:25]Taylor JonesI'll tell you this. There have been times in our history when we've had a bunch of ex presidents alive, and there have been times when we've had very few.

[00:16:32]Taylor JonesBut now, the only ex president who's not old is Obama.

[00:16:38]Taylor JonesAnd Obama's in his early sixties now.

[00:16:40]Daryl CagleAnd Clinton's the only one from the 20th century.

[00:16:42]Taylor JonesThat's right. And I don't know, Clinton was in the hospital recently we might have a slew of them.

[00:16:47]Daryl CagleOh boy. So the incompetent president penitentiary, that's where incompetent presidents go.

[00:16:53]Daryl CagleJimmy meet your new cellmate, Joe. He's in for serial nincompoopery too.

[00:16:59]Taylor JonesThat's funny that, of course we all think of Carter today or not Dick Wright, but, or Rivers. But a lot of things, the popular perception now is that Carter was a thoroughly decent man above all else, but he could be ruthless and He could be he was

[00:17:13]Daryl Caglehe was unsympathetic to a lot of people.

[00:17:17]Taylor JonesHe could be arrogant He's that goes with being a brilliant engineer

[00:17:21]Daryl CagleBrilliant engineer because he, he ran a submarine but I think that it was the 55 miles an hour speed limit that made most people angry.

[00:17:30]Taylor JonesEspecially where you live, out west, not so much in the northeast.

[00:17:34]Taylor JonesA lot of people actually liked it. Not out, not where you live.

[00:17:37]Daryl CagleNo probably in almost all the country, all those red states and

[00:17:41]Taylor JonesOh yeah,

[00:17:42]Daryl Cagleand that idea of wear a sweater and turn your heat down, You know He was just tone deaf on a lot of stuff

[00:17:49]Taylor JonesI think you put her, I think he was a tone deaf visionary.

[00:17:52]Taylor JonesIn many ways he was way ahead of his time. Okay.

[00:17:53]Daryl CagleSo this is an interesting one, Taylor. You asked me to include this one. There's a teeny little Jimmy Carter in there, peeking out between Tip O'Neill and Jesse Jackson. What's going on here on this oldie?

[00:18:05]Taylor JonesThis is a cover I drew for the New Republic.

[00:18:06]Taylor JonesIt was my first cover for the New Republic. I did a lot of work for them for about 16 years, I think. But Democrats Democrats. Unlike Republicans, are super into recriminations, as it says there in the title. They

[00:18:19]Daryl CagleOh, Democrats give as good as they get for recrimination.

[00:18:22]Daryl Caglewhat I mean is that they, whenever they lose, they're merciless on themselves.

[00:18:27]Daryl CagleThey self flagellate. Whereas Republicans just move on, or in recent years, they just deny, they lost, or they just, I remember there was supposed to be a sort of a post mortem for the Republicans after Romney lost, because so many Republicans thought he would win, even though they didn't really like him.

[00:18:42]Daryl Caglebut the post mortem was quickly was immediately ignored, and they went back to being what they are, You know, Democrats are tearing themselves up now, even though, Trump got like 49. 8 percent of the vote and Harris got 40. 8. 4. It's and yet it's as though the sky had fallen and that this is the most crushing victory since FDR beat Hoover in 32.

[00:19:02]Daryl CagleOkay. Taylor, only one person in this image is still alive, and who is that?

[00:19:08]Taylor JonesJesse Jackson.

[00:19:09]Daryl CagleJesse Jackson, the only one still alive, which is boy, as our drawings get older, your first magazine cover

[00:19:16]Daryl Caglethey just pass away.

[00:19:17]Taylor JonesI should point out that the Jimmy Carter, this piece.

[00:19:20]Taylor JonesIt's like, each character there is blaming the other. Mondale's blaming himself, but everybody's also blaming Jimmy Carter, even four years later.

[00:19:26]Daryl CagleOkay, and here you have Jimmy Carter. Tell us about this. This is from your President's book.

[00:19:32]Daryl CagleThis is, talk about old, I'll take my glasses off.

[00:19:34]Daryl CagleI'd like to read this. I've done it so many times, but I drew a book Adverse to Presidents 1981, it was published, I think, in 82. so I did all the presidents from Washington to Reagan. And all the originals were in color, but I tried to find publishers and rather than be a a writer who decides I'm going to get what I want and go to 30, 50 publishers.

[00:19:55]Daryl CagleI finally settled on a publisher, and I settled, unfortunately, for him producing it, and in grayscale, and sell, a very cheap production, and it didn't sell very much, but it still pops up once in a long while. You can find it on Amazon.

[00:20:08]Daryl CagleSo

[00:20:08]Daryl Cagleupdate it and redo it!

[00:20:09]Taylor JonesI've thought of it.

[00:20:10]Taylor JonesThat's a lot. I've thought of doing that. I have

[00:20:13]Taylor Jonesa question for you, Taylor. Why the Confederate battle flag on his hat?

[00:20:17]Taylor JonesYes, I wouldn't do that now. But people have to remember, and you will remember this, is that Jimmy Carter was the first celebrated governor of the New South.

[00:20:26]Taylor JonesThat was a new term, and it was a term where the South was booming, where the South was changing the corner, certainly in, civil rights, where cities like Atlanta and Birmingham and other major southern cities were electing black mayors and back then, you had Carter and a number of other Democrats leading to Bill Clinton eventually, who were they had cast aside a lot of the racial things they would, they would campaign on.

[00:20:48]Taylor JonesAnd they would support, they would they would enlist support of African Americans. In fact, George Wallace did that himself. running for reelection in 1970, he suddenly was, or maybe it wasn't 70, it might have been 72, I forget. But he too suddenly was championing civil rights, which is interesting because he was something of a, ahead of his time, early on in his career, before he figured that, You got to play the race card if you're going to win.

[00:21:09]Taylor JonesAnd in that time, and as Jimmy Carter ascended to the white house, there was a celebratory nature of of the South. And in some ways the confederate flag

[00:21:17]Daryl CagleThere's nothing new South about the confederate battle flag.

[00:21:21]Taylor JonesLet me finish it. You can edit out as much as you want. But the thing was that there was a certain, even though the confederate battle flag was still associated with the Klan, et cetera.

[00:21:30]Taylor JonesThere was a certain kitschiness to it at the same time. And one of the most popular television programs of the day was the Dukes of Hazzard and the Dukes of Hazzard. I maybe watched it once or twice, but the lead character,

[00:21:43]Daryl CagleIt was on top of their car

[00:21:45]Taylor Jonesit's right. He had the stars and bars emblazoned under the hood of his car. And he later ran for Congress in Georgia and served a few terms. I think his name was Ben Jones. But that's why this was the kitschy era. So that's why I have it on there, but may I read it?

[00:21:58]Daryl CagleSure. Go ahead.

[00:21:59]Taylor JonesJames Earl Carter hailed from the south. A few too many teeth in his mouth. During winter, he wore a cardigan sweater. Perhaps someday we'll understand him better. He made us a promise never to lie, but look into his rattlesnake eyes. As commander in chief, he was man of the hour. But Jimmy Carter never understood power.

[00:22:16]Taylor JonesThe result was that Jimmy lost some respect. Ol Brezhnev thought him a total reject. His brother provided him grand entertainment till Billy signed on as a Libyan agent. At Carter's legislation, the Congress balked. At his ego, Teddy quite mocked. In the arena, Jimmy made his last stand.

[00:22:32]Taylor JonesThey're trapped by mullahs. In Iran's shifting sand.

[00:22:35]Daryl CagleThat was very nice, Taylor.

[00:22:36]Taylor JonesThank you. And that, of the poems I wrote from Washington to Reagan, I think this one has stood the test of time. I'm, don't mean to sound boastful here, but I think Both as Carter was and as people looking back at him.

[00:22:49]Taylor JonesI think I think this is pretty accurate

[00:22:51]Daryl CagleThis is one of my favorites and this hangs on my wall And this is your your presidents, all together although not including Trump

[00:22:59]Taylor JonesI was commissioned to do this by the Chicago Tribune and it ran in a special section.

[00:23:05]Taylor JonesOf course, Obama, being a Chicago guy. for his inauguration, the newspaper had a supplement and this ran somewhere in the supplement.

[00:23:12]Taylor JonesI think this is just a beauty and you had to make an uncomfortable edit on this. This was the original.

[00:23:19]Taylor JonesOur older viewers will remember the incident where an Iraqi guy in a press conference threw a shoe at President Bush and you had him throwing the shoe, but your editors didn't want that, so you put John Adams in there instead of the shoe.

[00:23:34]Taylor JonesI chose John Adams after they, actually the man threw two shoes. And one thing that. One thing that Bush demonstrated that it pretty much, he was a pretty athletic and man of good reflexes.

[00:23:45]Daryl CagleYes, he ducked

[00:23:47]Daryl Caglethose shoes very effectively. It looked expert at doing it his first time.

[00:23:52]Taylor JonesLike he'd been hurled at before.

[00:23:55]Taylor JonesBut yeah, they didn't want to do that. And they didn't, the thing is, if I recall, they didn't make the objection right away. I guess it passed through several hands and said, wait, we can't have this. So I had to add that very quickly, and I think, did I send you the I sent you the both,

[00:24:08]Daryl Cagleso Taylor, yes, that was the last one.

[00:24:11]Taylor JonesDidn't mean to boast there about the Carter. Inclusion in the in the President in the adverse to presidents, yeah,

[00:24:17]Daryl Cagleso Taylor. Any last words about Jimmy Carter?

[00:24:20]Taylor JonesIt's amazing. He wrote so many books. He was I didn't know this I know he wrote some books of poetry.

[00:24:24]Taylor JonesI don't know that they sold well, although being former president They probably still sold It's a little better than any other poet's words but he was a He was an aficionado of Dylan Thomas and he went to some big celebration of Thomas in Wales,

[00:24:37]Taylor JonesA

[00:24:37]Taylor Jonescertain

[00:24:38]Daryl CagleThis is a podcast with young people watching.

[00:24:40]Daryl CagleYou've got to explain Dylan Thomas.

[00:24:42]Daryl CagleOkay then I guess I have nothing else to say about Jimmy Carter.

[00:24:45]Daryl CagleAll right, Taylor. I think we had an excellent podcast today. Thank you so much for joining me here.

[00:24:52]Taylor JonesYou're welcome. My pleasure. And I feel honored to be

[00:24:54]Taylor Jonesone of your solo guests. Oh, very good.

[00:24:56]Taylor JonesRemember to subscribe to the Caglecast wherever you're watching or listening today, our Caglecast is available in both video and audio versions. So if you don't see the cartoons, go to Cagle.Com or apple podcasts or Rumble or YouTube or Spotify or Caglecast.Com to see the cartoons in the video podcast.

[00:25:15]Taylor JonesAnd Taylor, thank you again so much for joining us.

[00:25:18]Taylor JonesAnytime.

[00:25:19]Taylor JonesAll right, that is the end and we will see you later.