Matt Gaetz Cartoons!

Transcript:

[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHi, I'm Daryl Cagle and this is the CagleCast where we're all about editorial cartoons. And today we have three brilliant cartoonists joining me to discuss Matt Gaetz, the congressman who was nominated for attorney general. And just five minutes ago on the news, we saw that he has withdrawn his name from consideration.

[00:00:20]Daryl CagleSo we will proceed with our podcast and kick Matt Gaetz while he is down. We've got three wonderful cartoonists joining us. Bill Day, Dave Whamond, and R. J. Madsen. Gentlemen, nice to see you. Good to be here. RJ, we'll start with you. This is great. American Borat, subsequent movie film, Congressman Gates, unmasked. That's funny. And he is wearing his mask. and it is, restricted under 17. Not a problem. Course, Matt Gates has his sex scandal going where he has Been, paying through Venmo for, it looks like dozens of prostitutes, including, at least one that's, 17.

[00:00:57]Daryl Cagleand this cartoon is great.

[00:00:58]RJ MatsonThanks that cartoons from 2021, I think, when the sort of the scandal first broke, or we first learned he was being investigated. . And I submitted that to my newspaper Roll Call, which covers Capitol Hill and life on Capitol Hill and Congress. And they passed, obviously.

[00:01:14]Daryl CagleThey didn't print this one!

[00:01:16]RJ MatsonNo, but I did it for you because I like the joke. I did it for the syndicate. I don't know how much that printed around the country. I don't know if if there's a formal policy at Roll Call, but kind of like in Congress, they don't like to take shots at the character of members of Congress.

[00:01:32]RJ MatsonAnd my editors tend to only pick cartoons that have members of Congress if they're in leadership positions. Thanks. It's just something I've noticed.

[00:01:41]Daryl CagleWell, that's kind of a problem cartoonists have in general is that congressmen don't rise to the level of being recognizable in cartoons typically.

[00:01:48]Daryl Caglebut of course Matt Gaetz has. So, I would have expected that.

[00:01:52]RJ MatsonYeah. Well, since my audience

[00:01:54]RJ Matsonis primarily members of Congress, they all know each other. And it's, it's great when I can, when I can make fun of them individually. I kind of think, you know, our media spends way too much time obsessing about the president and, and Congress doesn't get covered well enough.

[00:02:10]RJ MatsonSo I kind of make it my mission to focus, try to focus more on Congress than what's going on in the White House.

[00:02:17]Daryl CagleI think that's true. Here, you've got Matt Gaetz getting off the hook from the FBI investigation of his, sexual picadillos and, , That's a wonderful drawing. I love your color and the hair on it.

[00:02:28]Daryl CagleIt's so beautiful. Look at this hair. Isn't that great?

[00:02:33]RJ MatsonI struggle with hair so when I have to draw hair.

[00:02:36]Daryl CagleOh, it doesn't look like a struggle. It looks like

[00:02:38]Daryl Cagleyou're just, completely comfortable with the hair. It's just wonderful hair. I gotta compliment. Your hair is so wonderful.

[00:02:44]Dave WhamondYeah, it's perfect. Flows with the water. It's, uh, fits just nicely.

[00:02:48]Daryl CagleAlso, it's tricky to make his hair out all out of blue hue to match the underwater. I think it's great. His hair flows like the, the kelp.

[00:02:57]RJ MatsonWell, the blue, you know, the blue hue, I got a, lesson from Ed Sorel, the great old cartoonist about color back in the days when I would actually use watercolors on paper, and he always struggled to make his colors blend together.

[00:03:10]RJ MatsonAnd he just told me to underpaint the whole page with one color. And then any color you put on lightly will sort of pick up that either a light yellow or a light blue and then all the colors kind of work together because they all have a touch of that one under underpainted color and I do the same thing and when I color in Photoshop in a lot of cartoons,

[00:03:29]Daryl Caglethat's great.

[00:03:30]Daryl CagleI think, sex scandals are very well suited to cartoonists we seem to excel when there are sex scandals and I love sex scandals, To me, it's kind of disappointing that Matt Gaetz withdrew just now, because I would have enjoyed a few more days of Matt Gaetz.

[00:03:47]Dave WhamondIt's for the good of the country though, I guess. So, you know, we have to look at it. It's not about us cartoonists all the time.

[00:03:52]Daryl CagleSo, uh, Bill, here you have Matt Gaetz as a suckerfish on Trump. And he is very much like that. And of course, I put this here because we just saw RJ's fish.

[00:04:02]Daryl CagleAnd we have a whole bunch of Matt Gaetz as animals cartoons, you've done more of those than anybody else. Here you have Matt Gaetz as a love bug. In a sting operation. He's got a big stinger here. You've got him as a parrot, parroting everything Trump wants to say. You've got him as an elephant's ass, which is, uh, puts his mouth in a different perspective.

[00:04:23]Daryl CagleAnd, that's one of mine where I have him as a dog. Talk to us about your, your Matt Gaetz cartoons, Bill. You're in Florida. You do lots of Matt Gaetz.

[00:04:30]Bill DayYeah, that's probably why I have so many of them, um, being a Florida boy myself. and for a while, uh, he was actually my congressman. So, I'm well aware of his behavior and his, his place in this, in the panhandle of Florida.

[00:04:43]Bill Dayit is, as you might know, the panhandle is, probably South Alabama more than it is anything to do with Florida and the reason why he works so well with the alt right is because that's who he grew up with and that's who support him. So, I've gotten really used to knowing what he's all about and why he behaves the way he does.

[00:05:03]Bill Dayit's been my job, uh, caricaturing him and dealing with him as an individual. So He is a complete jerk. He is absolutely a jerk. Someone pied him one time in the face, and then of course he got arrested, but That's how people feel about him, except the people who vote for him.

[00:05:20]Bill DayAnd, uh, there he can do no wrong. So, that's .

[00:05:24]Daryl CagleYou are as liberal as a cartoonist can be, Bill. And you've chosen to be in the most far right MAGA area possible to live?

[00:05:32]Bill DayWell, I can't help that. Um, I was offered some work. My wife got offered a job in the panhandle and so we moved to the panhandle in order to try to survive.

[00:05:45]Bill DayAnd from my office overlooking the little gulf I enjoy drawing cartoons about Matt Gaetz.

[00:05:51]Daryl CagleWell, very good. this is one I drew recently, um, going with the animal theme. He's just biting sexy Justice's butt. And, one thing I love about Matt Gaetz is that he is so easy to draw. He's got that big head with the little face on it.

[00:06:05]Daryl CagleAnd, his eyes are just, uh, it's like they're, they're designed for a cartoonist. They're already exaggerated. I think he's fun. This is, uh, Adam Zyglis, also on the animal thing. I think, I think the swamp thing is, is an animal, isn't he?

[00:06:19]RJ MatsonUh, yeah, I think so.

[00:06:21]Daryl CagleMaybe he's kind of a plant,

[00:06:23]Bill Daysome kind of creature from the swamp.

[00:06:24]Dave WhamondI think he's a mutant or something like that. Yeah.

[00:06:27]Daryl CagleWell, very good. This is Ed Wexler. This one made me laugh. The pixelation on the little girl's face.

[00:06:35]Dave WhamondI didn't notice that before. I've seen this one. Yeah. It's hilarious.

[00:06:39]Daryl CagleMakes me laugh. She's 21.

[00:06:44]Dave WhamondEd is great at caricatures. He nails them every time.

[00:06:49]Bill DayHe's the best.

[00:06:50]Daryl CagleHis little face and his eyes. Here he is with crazy Marjorie Taylor Greene, I think, they were kind of a pair. Um,

[00:06:59]Bill DayThey traveled together for

[00:07:00]Bill Daya while.

[00:07:01]Dave WhamondThat's right, too. I forgot. Yeah.

[00:07:03]Bill DayBut as I was saying, you know, she's from Georgia, and he's actually from, well, from, from North Florida, which is partly Alabama and partly Georgia.

[00:07:11]Bill DaySo, they got along real well in terms of politics.

[00:07:14]Daryl CagleThis is also Ed. Editors don't like flipping the bird. This one made me laugh. It would be nice if editors printed this one.

[00:07:20]Bill DayYou know, um, I was told by some friends that live in the Netherlands that, the bird is quite popular. In fact, when you give us one of the finger doing drawings in Netherlands, this It's not verboten.

[00:07:30]Bill DayIt's good. Hmm. It would probably, it would probably sell in the Netherlands.

[00:07:35]Dave WhamondYeah. I find a lot of these types of cartoons have a huge Presence on online like they get a ton of likes and it's just the newspapers won't print them But they they seem to be the more popular cartoons on Twitter or blue sky or

[00:07:49]Daryl Cagleyou know, that's true with our podcast It's the ones about Trump with the nastiest cartoons.

[00:07:54]Daryl CagleThey get the most traffic and other topics just are duds

[00:07:58]Dave WhamondYeah, yeah,

[00:07:59]Bill DayI think editors have just become you know afraid of their shadows. That's all

[00:08:03]Daryl CagleDave, this is fun, and it's kind of an animal cartoon too. it may be too late. The gang green has already set in. yes, these are the four guys that caused all of that trouble to get rid of, speaker McCarthy and, it's interesting because you would think that Gaetz would be more of a bad guy to Republicans.

[00:08:25]Daryl Cagleso Trump was kind of thumbing his nose at Republicans to pick Gaetz for attorney general.

[00:08:30]Dave WhamondI think it was almost a test to see if they would fall in line and vote for him and, by what just happened today with his resignation, or that he's not going to put up his name, excuse me, his name forward is, that they're calling his bluff a little bit here.

[00:08:43]Dave WhamondThat's he probably didn't have the votes to get it through. So

[00:08:45]Bill DayI figured it'd probably be a recess nomination anyway, but

[00:08:50]Dave Whamondyeah, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. So I don't know who, who, who's worse. Uh, Hannibal Lecter. You know, but then I'll find out he's a, he's not a real person.

[00:08:59]Bill DayHe is, he is to Trump.

[00:09:01]Dave WhamondYeah.

[00:09:02]Daryl CagleHere's another nice animal Gaetz one head under three headed dragon.

[00:09:06]Dave WhamondYeah, this was a lot of fun to draw. And I find a lot of these characters are like Batman villains. You know, they're, they're, uh, Almost cartoonish already, you know, so you have to work extra hard to caricaturize them. So

[00:09:17]Daryl Caglethe things they say are such nonsense, Bill, you live in that area.

[00:09:21]Daryl Cagledo they hear this as nonsense? Why, do the space lasers and, all the craziness, why doesn't that sound crazy to them?

[00:09:29]Bill DayWell, because that's where their head's at still. They think this stuff is true and real. So they, they fall for it. I mean, we're not talking about people who can think critically very well, you know?

[00:09:40]Dave WhamondI think we don't realize how much of this disinformation is funneled into some of these voters on a daily basis, you know, and then they do start to believe some of this stuff.

[00:09:50]Bill DayAnd even if they don't, they get a big kick out of it just being said.

[00:09:54]Daryl CagleAlso Dave. It is so charming the way you put the, the shadows in here. Oh, thanks. I think that, that makes the drawing more interesting and sophisticated. I think it's, uh, I think this is lovely. I can see that it was fun to draw.

[00:10:07]Dave WhamondOh, thanks. It was a little more ominous. At first, I kind vignette. And then, so I hesitated putting the shadow in there. But, I

[00:10:14]Dave Whamondthink it popped it out a bit more, so.

[00:10:15]Daryl CagleVery nice. Thanks. Here you have Gaetz, uh, I guess he's feeling, uh, Justice's butt in this one. He says, don't worry, I'll Venmo you the ten thousand dollars first

[00:10:27]Dave WhamondShe's a bit of an older lady for him, I guess, but, uh, I guess it was age group, but I always find, uh, Like you said earlier, Matt Gates is just such so much fun to caricaturize You just start with the, uh, the upside down Nike logo swoosh for the eyebrows.

[00:10:43]Dave WhamondThe

[00:10:43]Dave Whamondrest just falls into place. He's got, I didn't give him enough forehead there.

[00:10:47]Dave WhamondI think I was running out of space. So I usually, you gotta add a bit more forehead, but

[00:10:51]Daryl CagleThere's a lot of leeway on drawing him. If you don't get something right, it still looks like him. close enough.

[00:10:57]Dave WhamondYeah, and then the hair is fun too, so.

[00:10:59]Daryl CagleIt is.

[00:11:00]Dave WhamondYeah.

[00:11:00]Daryl CagleAnd here's another group scene with the four of the nutbags.

[00:11:04]Daryl CagleVery nice.

[00:11:05]Dave WhamondOh, thank you. Yeah. Like I say, they're, it's, it's, uh, so much fun to, to caricaturize these folks, you know, they do all the work for us. So you just, just have fun with it.

[00:11:14]Daryl CagleAnd here he is on, on the bus with the bomb ready to explode. He says, Oh, and if you ever go below 50 miles per hour, we'll blow the whole thing up.

[00:11:22]Daryl CagleThat's great.

[00:11:23]Dave WhamondOh, thanks. Yeah, I gave him enough forehead in that one.

[00:11:26]Bill DayYou got a good chin there, too. Yeah,

[00:11:29]Daryl Caglejust a little spot of face in the middle of his big head.

[00:11:33]Daryl CagleYeah,

[00:11:33]Daryl CagleAre you happy to see him gone? You guys?

[00:11:35]Dave WhamondI don't know. He, I kind of got, I had trouble characterizing him at first and then I finally got it and then he, then he's gone. So, you know, he, yeah,

[00:11:43]RJ MatsonI struggled with him at first too.

[00:11:44]RJ Matsona little bit bland. No, I think it's fair to say he wasn't respected by his peers and probably not the sharpest guy.

[00:11:52]RJ MatsonSo to draw him kind of bland and dumb, but, uh,

[00:11:55]Daryl Cagleyou're talking about McCarthy.

[00:11:56]RJ MatsonMcCarthy. Yeah, but, but those aren't necessarily the most fun people to caricature and like another one from olden times who was kind of just serious and boring was Al Gore. I had a really hard time drawing him.

[00:12:11]Daryl CagleWell, here's a perfect example of this piece of art where, Matt Gaetz is clearly fun to draw and McCarthy is clearly more of a struggle.

[00:12:18]Daryl CagleMm

[00:12:19]RJ Matsonhmm.

[00:12:19]Daryl CagleWell, it wasn't a struggle for you. You got it very well. You got it good. Here he's opening up the flood Gaetz

[00:12:26]Dave WhamondYeah, you can see it. Yeah, we're doing a progression here. I'm getting bigger forehead and chin every time here. So, but it is funny even looking at him live and in person. His face is very small and there's a ton of flesh around.

[00:12:39]Dave WhamondThis is a. Face, which is very odd, but it works for us. So

[00:12:42]Daryl CagleI've got to say, I kind of enjoy him and I'm, I'm a little bit sad to see him go because whoever goes in there is going to carry out Trump's agenda. Why not be entertaining?

[00:12:51]Dave WhamondYeah, I think he would have been a, disaster, but he probably, it would have just been all about retribution if he got in there, so probably,

[00:12:59]Daryl Cagleyou know, you don't expect the retribution and

[00:13:02]Dave Whamondit'll still be there, but you know, I think he'll be, he would be over the top.

[00:13:05]Dave Whamondgoing after Liz Cheney, et cetera.

[00:13:07]Daryl CagleHere's Bruce Plante, the teenage girl, running away from Matt Gaetz's office. there, uh, I've noticed the square peg in the round hole seems to be a theme that, cartoonists were picking up on this. Here's Randy Enos with square pegs in round holes.

[00:13:24]Daryl CagleHere's Pat Bagley. Look at that ass. Yeah, right.

[00:13:28]Dave Whamondperfect.

[00:13:29]Daryl CagleSteve Sack. You know, it's nice that Gaetz was here, three years ago with his, his scandal so that we could get a Steve Sack cartoon from it.

[00:13:37]Bill DaySeventeen Magazine. That's great.

[00:13:39]Daryl CagleYeah.

[00:13:39]Dave WhamondYeah. Steve was one of the best.

[00:13:41]Daryl CagleHere you are Bill with the same idea.

[00:13:43]Daryl CagleAnd here's Taylor Jones. I thought this was fun. The hair on this is great fun. And of course he paints with real watercolors and a brush.

[00:13:51]Dave WhamondYeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very well done.

[00:13:53]Daryl CagleHe doesn't need any eyeballs at all.

[00:13:55]Bill DayNo,

[00:13:56]RJ Matsonno.

[00:13:56]Bill DayHis eyeballs are so recessed. You don't need to see the eyeballs themselves.

[00:14:00]RJ Matsonuh, Gates will come back.

[00:14:02]RJ MatsonHe'll have a comeback like Nixon or something. Trump

[00:14:06]Daryl Caglemight've pointed to something that doesn't require confirmation.

[00:14:09]Dave WhamondWell, he did resign Congress. From Congress, I mean,

[00:14:12]Bill Dayyeah. But he may very well run for governor of Florida and win.

[00:14:16]Bill DayYeah.

[00:14:16]Dave WhamondOh, God.

[00:14:18]RJ Matsondid he run for reelection? in the in 2024 and won and then resigned.

[00:14:25]Bill DayHe can't be defeated in North Florida. Well,

[00:14:27]RJ MatsonI wonder if you can just reclaim his seat since he'll be sworn in and January 2nd or whatever.

[00:14:34]Dave WhamondThink he resigned though, before that report came out and that was the, is, Oh, he can't have a private citizen, have the house ethics report.

[00:14:41]Dave WhamondWell, I think going back in would cause what they would release it then. So I don't think he wants that.

[00:14:46]Bill DayThey only released a couple of rules apply anymore with Trump.

[00:14:52]Daryl CagleNo

[00:14:52]Bill Dayrules. I mean, did

[00:14:53]Daryl Cagleyou see that chart of all the women that he called in Venmoed?

[00:14:56]Dave WhamondNo, I didn't see that. I know he got him in the middle at all these lines to like, uh, dozens of women that he was Venmoing.

[00:15:03]Dave Whamondlike who, who would Venmo, you know, like you, you think he's dizzy or the cash or, you know,

[00:15:10]Daryl Cagleit's funny when you look at, at that chart with all the dozens of women's and your takeaway is why would he use Venmo?

[00:15:19]Dave WhamondI'm just thinking he's, he's obviously come on, man. You know? It's all out there, it's all traceable.

[00:15:24]Dave WhamondYeah, not smart. Yeah.

[00:15:26]Daryl CagleSo here's Rick McKee, and he's got the two, teenage girls. one girl has a, I guess it's like a valentine. Do you like me? Yes or no, pick one, yes, no. It's from that creepy congressman, Matt Gaetz.

[00:15:38]Bill DayThat's good, man.

[00:15:40]Dave WhamondYeah, I hadn't seen that one, that's good.

[00:15:41]Daryl CagleHere's Date Night with Matt Gaetz. A rose and a happy meal.

[00:15:45]RJ MatsonI'm not getting the McDonald's connection, but I guess, Oh, happy meal. That's

[00:15:50]Daryl Cagleokay. He's got a kid's meal that he's giving her for her date.

[00:15:55]RJ MatsonThat's that's right.

[00:15:56]Dave WhamondVery good caricature too.

[00:15:57]Daryl CagleI'm not a monk. This would be me as a monk. That's wonderful. It's kind of crazy. Did he say I'm not a monk?

[00:16:04]RJ MatsonHe must have.

[00:16:05]Dave WhamondThat's funny to look back in some cartoons that you've done in. There's some quote or something and it's like, did he say that you can't even remember so much stuff happens, uh, on a daily basis with these guys, you can't even remember half of the stuff,

[00:16:16]Daryl Cagleyou know, as cartoonists, we have the right to put words into anybody's mouth that they didn't really say something.

[00:16:22]Daryl CagleNo other journalists can do quotes around it like this. It gives the impression that he actually would have said it, but we're not really required to have him actually say it to put quotes around something, so you don't really know.

[00:16:35]Dave WhamondI know on things like, Saturday Night Live, they'll just basically quote what the politician had said, and whoever's doing the impression of them will just repeat verbatim.

[00:16:43]Dave WhamondWhat that has been said, and then people will say, that was hilarious. All I do is quoting what they actually said, you know, like Sarah Palin, I can see Alaska from my house.

[00:16:54]RJ MatsonYeah. Whenever possible. I'd like to use the politicians, actual words in a cartoon, if I can. Yeah.

[00:17:00]Daryl CagleHow do you identify it as actual words?

[00:17:03]Daryl CagleDo you identify it?

[00:17:05]RJ MatsonIf I have them saying something in a caption, I'll just be an actual direct quote.

[00:17:09]Daryl CagleSo do you put quotation marks around it?

[00:17:11]RJ MatsonWell, uh, yeah, if I run my caption along the bottom of the drawing, I always have it in quotation marks if somebody's speaking, whether I'm quoting them or not.

[00:17:20]RJ MatsonSo

[00:17:20]Daryl CagleI've seen cartoonists write actual quotes in their cartoons.

[00:17:24]RJ MatsonOh, I've never done that. Yeah.

[00:17:26]Daryl CagleSo here's Randy Enos again. Would you let your teenage daughter date a guy that looks like that? It looks like a Dick Tracy villain. Yeah. Teeny face. This is something the kids are not going to have any idea who.

[00:17:36]Dave WhamondI love that teeny face works with the teen thing too. So it

[00:17:43]Daryl CagleIt does.

[00:17:43]Daryl CagleHere is John Darkow. This is his cartoon from today. They're sitting at the Thanksgiving table and the old lady says, Why is Matt Gaetz at the children's table? And the lady at the grown up table says, He's explaining he can't pick up dates on his recess appointment like he does during recess at school.

[00:18:04]Daryl CagleOne thing I thought was fun about this is look at the caricature of Matt Gaetz. You've got A little bit of his face, it doesn't include eyes or nose or mouth, and you still know it's Matt Gaetz.

[00:18:15]Dave WhamondYeah, yeah. And see, recess works both ways, too, so. Yes, it's just perfect sitting there for us.

[00:18:21]Daryl CagleHere's John Darko again with the monsters at the Star Wars cantina. So it's official, we're all getting jobs in Trump's cabinet. The only one that's not An explicit Star Wars monster is Matt Gaetz, is just a natural Star Wars monster.

[00:18:37]Dave WhamondYeah, I see him more like a Batman type guy. Like, it's just face, his facial expressions.

[00:18:42]Dave WhamondLike, especially when he had that Botox for the convention that he was speaking at. I thought he's just, he's a central casting for a Batman villain. He is.

[00:18:51]Daryl CagleYeah. Um, and, you notice, John Darkow has his eyebrows leaping off of his head. I think it's natural for cartoonists when there's something interesting on someone's face to make it bigger.

[00:19:02]Daryl CagleUm, and with Matt Gaetz, you have that conflict of wanting to make his whole face smaller. I think that that's a struggle.

[00:19:09]Dave WhamondI was going to say, uh, the caricature, the drawing in here is really nicely done. So, the Star Wars characters, I wouldn't have thought of that. That's a, that's a great, uh, some of the cabinet picks are, are in line with that.

[00:19:20]Dave WhamondExactly. So

[00:19:21]Daryl Caglehe draws with real pencil on real paper. Yeah, it is pencil. I was wondering about that. Yeah.

[00:19:26]Dave WhamondYou still do pencil as well, Daryl, right? Is that how you do that?

[00:19:29]Daryl CagleI do, but then I scan it. with high contrast, and then I color it on the computer, so it's, not really very pencil y. I just

[00:19:37]Dave WhamondYeah, no, not at all.

[00:19:38]Daryl CagleI get too stiff

[00:19:38]Daryl Caglewhen I use ink.

[00:19:39]Dave WhamondI was really surprised to see that when you did one of your demos. I thought, I had no idea that there was a, those were pencils, because they do look like croqueline, you know, or nib pen or something.

[00:19:48]Daryl CagleI've been trying to use Procreate on an iPad and struggling with that.

[00:19:54]Daryl CagleI did only one cartoon that way so far, but it takes me like four times as long cause I don't have the skillset.

[00:20:00]RJ MatsonI've switched over to the iPad within the last year. Last year and a half and I'm loving it. Um, and I don't use Procreate. I use Adobe Fresco, which is stuff you're used to Photoshop. it just feels more familiar, but working in layers and, and, um, you know, tracing your own work and cleaning things up and erasing a line that you don't like, it just becomes second nature very quickly to the point that when I draw on paper now.

[00:20:27]RJ MatsonYou know, in the app, you can tap your fingers twice to erase what you just did. And I find myself drawing on paper and tapping the paper to make a line I don't like. Yeah.

[00:20:37]Dave WhamondI do the drawing on the board still. I still like I can't get the line. I want digitally, but then I scan it in and do the color that way.

[00:20:46]Dave WhamondBut it's funny because sometimes you're used to doing the, uh, you know, when you make a mistake, you do the apple or what is it? I forget what it is, whatever it is.

[00:20:52]Daryl CagleCommand Z.

[00:20:53]Dave Whamondyeah. So you get rid of it and then I go back to the board and I go, well, I don't like that line. And I go to, oh, I can't get rid of it.

[00:21:00]Dave WhamondYou kind of get used to it, you know.

[00:21:01]Daryl CagleSo the transition was easy for you, RJ.

[00:21:04]RJ MatsonYeah, well, so I, I began thinking I would just sketch my ideas. So do the, do the rough sketches. And then I would, like I used to do, I would, where I would draw on paper and then scan it and color it in Photoshop. I was drawing a black and white sketch.

[00:21:19]RJ MatsonAnd then importing it into Photoshop and coloring it and sending my sketches to my editors And then I started doing the finished drawing and still coloring in photoshop And now i've just gotten the habit of coloring right in in the in the app on the ipad and The extra control is great.

[00:21:36]RJ MatsonAnd i've never used one of those big wacom tablets or anything like that But what's wonderful about the iPad is being able to zoom in and out so quickly and rotate your image. So, so why do you want to draw better than you always are moving your paper? It's never fixed in one position and you're moving your arm.

[00:21:54]RJ MatsonYou rotate the paper to make to draw the lines more easily. Um, so basically your arm is always moving in the same direction. If you're drawing a circle, you rotate the paper and just draw the same motion. And you can do that on the iPad. It's just fantastic.

[00:22:09]Daryl CagleSo where did Procreate fall short that made you choose Adobe Fresco?

[00:22:12]RJ Matsonuh, I didn't like the brushes. I was just really used to, uh, to, Photoshop brushes. And, um, and I didn't feel the same kind of control I had, like the, just the basic pencil brush and Fresco is really, really nice. Um, so you do, and I wanted a few more, uh, I didn't like not having all the. the tools visible on the screen.

[00:22:35]RJ MatsonThat's why they do

[00:22:36]RJ Matsonit.

[00:22:37]Daryl CagleInteresting. Here's John Cole with Gates as toast. This, uh, this one turned out to be true, I guess. Cartoonists do a lot of ventriloquist jokes because I just, the metaphor of a puppet is so nice and here he's drinking the Trump Kool Aid while he's, puppeting McCarthy. he was, I didn't get the impression that he puppeted McCarthy. I got, he was just, an adversary and got rid of him.

[00:23:01]Daryl CagleHe does drink the Kool Aid, though.

[00:23:03]RJ Matson80 years ago, this could have been an Edgar Berg and Charlie McCarthy cartoon.

[00:23:09]RJ MatsonHow do you decide when a cultural reference is too old?

[00:23:12]Dave WhamondI did a cartoon about the Beatles, uh, Couple months ago, and some people were commenting. I don't get this. Like they had no idea what the reference.

[00:23:22]RJ MatsonI can't even imagine the Star Wars reference.

[00:23:24]Dave WhamondYeah, I

[00:23:27]Dave Whamondthink enough kids still watch the old ones, but I don't know.

[00:23:30]Dave WhamondIt's hard to say.

[00:23:31]RJ MatsonI remember giving a talk at my, uh, college to some journalism students 10 years, only 10 years after the Tiananmen square. Massacre. And I showed a cartoon of, you know, the classic image of the man standing in front of the tank. And the kids had no understanding of what that was.

[00:23:48]Dave WhamondSeriously,

[00:23:49]RJ Matsonand I thought, um, yeah, well, you were all like, you know, third graders when this happened.

[00:23:53]Dave WhamondYeah,

[00:23:54]Daryl Caglethat would be true in China, too.

[00:23:56]RJ MatsonYeah,

[00:23:56]Daryl Caglehere's Adam Zyglis with his Bates motel cartoon, the Gaetz motel, another cartoon that the young people won't get.

[00:24:05]Dave WhamondThey did redo it a couple years ago. Um, I think Vince Vaughn did it, but it wasn't that, I don't think that classic scene would, come across.

[00:24:13]Dave WhamondSo,

[00:24:13]Bill Dayand did it in black and white, like the, uh, movie.

[00:24:16]Dave WhamondYeah. Yeah. Nice touch.

[00:24:18]Daryl CagleHere is Jeff Katerba. He draws naked Gaetz at the hotel reception, he says, but I pre ordered the executive blanket. Pardon? And the receptionist says, I'm sorry, Mr. Gates, but I'm not seeing anything. The Congressman has no clothes. he's funny or naked.

[00:24:36]Dave WhamondHe just needs the Borat,

[00:24:37]Daryl Caglehe rose to be a very interesting, crazy cartoon character early, and just as a congressman, which is an achievement.

[00:24:44]Daryl CagleBut. This is Rick McKee. He's got the Trump garbage truck full of his nominees, Matt Gates and RFK Jr. And Tulsi Gabbard.

[00:24:53]RJ MatsonYeah, great idea. It's one I wish I'd thought of.

[00:24:56]Dave WhamondYeah, absolutely.

[00:24:57]Daryl Caglelook how, how tiny the little bit of Washington is down there. And it tells you that you're in Washington with just that tiny little spot.

[00:25:05]Daryl CagleOh, I think that's charming. Yeah, and the little newspaper tells you that they're the cabinet nominees and all the garbage in the air This one's full of wonderful details.

[00:25:15]Dave WhamondMm hmm. Yeah, and it's not too much to look at He's got a ton of stuff in there and it's nicely done how he's manipulated the page

[00:25:22]Dave WhamondSo it's not

[00:25:22]Dave Whamondtoo hard to look at.

[00:25:23]Daryl CagleYes. And Matt Gaetz has this bra and RFK has this tin hat and Tulsi Gabbard's has her communist button. He's, this is full of little details that describe everything. And Trump's tie is wonderful.

[00:25:37]Dave WhamondOh, yeah. And of course he has the worm coming out of RFK's junior's head. That's like, we all have to do that now, of course.

[00:25:45]Daryl CagleBill, here are a bunch of your cartoons in a row. Because Bill has drawn, I think I counted like three dozen Matt Gaetz cartoons in Bill's archive. He's got more Matt Gaetz than any other cartoonist has drawn. And, This is, he's, he's clearly your favorite, Bill.

[00:26:05]Bill Dayyeah. You can't ignore him.

[00:26:07]Daryl CagleHere's his back tattoo, like, Roger Stone. That's funny. He's singing. Well, she was just 17. You know what I mean? Right.

[00:26:16]Dave WhamondAnd so you got the perfect Nike swoop eyebrows there, you know, the upside down Nike logo.

[00:26:22]Daryl CagleWas there a story about the Bahamas?

[00:26:23]Bill DayYeah. Okay. Well, supposedly one of, one of his, when he was chasing a 17 year old, it was in the Bahamas.

[00:26:28]Bill DaySo that's, that's the whole Bahamas thing. Oh, okay. But you know, in Florida, you get to wear these fancy ties anyway.

[00:26:34]Daryl Cagleanother old man thing. I don't think the young people in Florida are wearing ties.

[00:26:40]Daryl CagleHere he is dancing with the KKK hate. Editors don't like the KKK in cartoons.

[00:26:46]Bill DayWell, they're there and Matt

[00:26:48]Bill DayGates knows

[00:26:48]Bill Daythem well, you know, they're friends.

[00:26:50]Daryl CagleWhat has he done anything in particular you can point to?

[00:26:54]Bill DayOh, well, he's invited him to, you know, attend Congress with him. He's he's gone, gets out with him all the time.

[00:26:59]Bill DayHe's. He really likes to, likes to bring them into his fold because they vote for him. He's not afraid. And he's not afraid of people knowing that they're part of his constituency because he's from North Florida.

[00:27:10]Dave WhamondYou know, 20 years ago, that would have been unthinkable, inviting a KKK to come to Congress or wherever, you know, and now it's just sort of like normalized,

[00:27:19]Daryl Caglebut 80 years ago, it wouldn't have been unthinkable.

[00:27:21]Dave WhamondNo, that's true. That's true.

[00:27:22]RJ MatsonThat's true.

[00:27:22]Dave WhamondWe're coming full circle again soon.

[00:27:24]RJ MatsonNormalize and people forget history.

[00:27:27]Daryl CagleMm hmm.

[00:27:28]Bill DayYeah, he's still trying to defund the FBI. And that's, and that's part of, uh, Trump's, uh, plan as well.

[00:27:34]Daryl CagleWell, here he is under the sex trafficking microscope.

[00:27:39]Daryl CagleBill, you've just got so many of them. I grabbed a tiny little selection.

[00:27:45]RJ MatsonThe Iron Man of Matt Gaetz cartoons. Wow. It's great when you have a local person who's, uh,

[00:27:52]Daryl CagleYou could do a Matt Gaetz book.

[00:27:54]RJ MatsonI think, Daryl, if you ever do a show on Rudy Giuliani, there's probably no one who's done more Rudy Giuliani cartoons than I have. Really?

[00:28:02]Daryl CagleDo you think?

[00:28:03]RJ MatsonI had all those years at the New York Observer when I was pretty much the only cartoonist in New York City.

[00:28:08]Daryl CagleWould people care enough about Rudy Giuliani for us to do a podcast on Rudy Giuliani?

[00:28:13]RJ MatsonUh,

[00:28:13]RJ MatsonI don't know. Probably not anymore. But, um, He was

[00:28:16]Dave WhamondTrump. Trump's gonna name him as the new A. G. So we'll, we'll be back when you want to on Rudy.

[00:28:21]RJ MatsonOh, you think?

[00:28:22]Dave WhamondOh, I'm just kidding. But you never know. Like, Hey, I joke about it and it'll happen.

[00:28:26]Daryl CagleSo, you know, I appreciate the kicking him while he's down, but he does.

[00:28:30]Daryl CagleSeem to me like he's a, tragic figure and he's kind of lost his mind. He's, he's become a genuine nut. I mean, these other guys are hypocrites and they're being, they're acting nutty.

[00:28:41]RJ MatsonAre you talking about Mayor Giuliani?

[00:28:43]Daryl CagleYeah.

[00:28:44]RJ MatsonOh, if you saw my cartoons, no, he was always the way he is.

[00:28:47]Daryl CagleYou think so?

[00:28:47]Daryl CagleYou don't

[00:28:48]RJ Matsonthink he's kind of Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was always a grandstanding blowhard of the worst kind and would willing to lie and misrepresent. to cheap, cheap political points.

[00:28:56]Daryl CagleYou don't think he's kind of lost his mental facility?

[00:28:58]RJ MatsonI think he's gotten, he's become more of who he is. He's become, he's become like, His essence is purified, in a way.

[00:29:05]RJ MatsonBut, no, he was always this horrible person.

[00:29:08]Daryl Cagleyou don't have any sympathy for him?

[00:29:10]RJ MatsonNo, no. No, none at all.

[00:29:12]Dave WhamondSo even back when he was, uh

[00:29:14]RJ MatsonOnce a jerk, always a jerk. No.

[00:29:16]Dave WhamondWhen he was America's mayor, and he was sort of the big hero, did you know it then as well,

[00:29:22]RJ MatsonWell, I'd been drawing cartoons about him for years before that.

[00:29:26]Dave WhamondYeah, so you kind of saw that through the whole

[00:29:28]RJ MatsonAnd he was, he had worn out his welcome in New York City. Nobody liked him. And so Yeah. Yeah. And he showed, you know, he showed up and, and was, uh, a calm, heroic voice on that day. No doubt about that. and he built like a multimillion dollar command and control center for any emergency in New York.

[00:29:47]RJ MatsonAnd he, and they, for political reasons, put it in the World Trade Center and everybody told him it was foolish because the World Trade Center was, was the target about seven years before. And so basically he had to run the, react, you know, the response to that horrible tragedy that day with nothing. Yeah. but, yeah, It was, those were hard days in New York to draw cartoons about anything. And it was hard to attack him. So everybody like, you know, You know, laid off after that. All right. Well,

[00:30:14]Daryl Cagleyou've talked me into it. We'll do a Giuliani podcast. We'll have you on there. And, um, whether people want to, Yeah,

[00:30:21]RJ Matsonif he becomes attorney general, he needs, he's brought back somehow.

[00:30:25]RJ MatsonYeah.

[00:30:25]Daryl CagleHe has sacrificed himself on the altar of Trump. You would think that Trump might have some sympathy for him.

[00:30:31]Dave WhamondAnd he hasn't paid his legal fees, so he owes him one. Yep.

[00:30:34]Daryl CagleWell, here we've got the classic, I'm with stupid and I'm with stupid, and, uh, I haven't seen that

[00:30:42]Dave Whamondone, that's great.

[00:30:43]Daryl CagleThat is the end of our cartoons, I only grabbed about 20 of Bill's Matt Gaetz cartoons,

[00:30:48]Bill DayI do appreciate that,

[00:30:49]Bill DayDaryl.

[00:30:49]Daryl CagleGentlemen, we had 57 cartoons that we went through very quickly. I think it was a great collection of Matt Gaetz cartoons, and I especially enjoyed all of your cartoons. I think they were delightful.

[00:31:01]Dave WhamondWell, thanks. It'll be interesting to see where he ends up now, so.

[00:31:04]Daryl CagleI'll bet he lands on his feet.

[00:31:06]Bill DayI think so, too. You know, in Florida, his father is Don Gaetz, who's a very powerful figure. Senate, the Florida Senate guy,

[00:31:14]RJ Matsonand

[00:31:15]Bill Dayhe's, he's still going to be around for sure.

[00:31:17]RJ MatsonLooking forward to drawing him for a couple of years.

[00:31:19]Dave WhamondIn the greater good. I'm happy to see him go.

[00:31:24]Daryl CagleWe won't lose him. We've got him this week and, He's sure to come back, I think.

[00:31:28]Bill DayI think so too, but he is such a jerk. He is such a jerk.

[00:31:32]Daryl CagleOkay, gentlemen. Thank you very much. It is very nice to have you. Remember to subscribe to Caglecast wherever you're watching or listening today.

[00:31:39]Daryl CagleOur Caglecast is available in both video and audio versions. So if you don't see the cartoons, go to Cagle. com or apple podcasts or Rumble or YouTube or Spotify or Caglecast.com. com to see the cartoons of the video podcast. Otherwise you can listen to it in audio, wherever you get your podcasts and, gentlemen, I had a great time today and thank you for being here.

[00:32:00]Dave WhamondThanks for having us. Good to meet you guys. Okay. See ya.

[00:32:05]Dave WhamondAll right.