Stinky Trump!

Transcript:

79-Trump Farted Combined
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Daryl Cagle: [00:00:00] Hi, I am Daryl Kagel, and this is the Caglecast where we're all about political cartoons. And recently there was a meeting at the White House of oil and gas executives where Trump kind of had the opportunity to add the gas to the meeting, and that caught the noses of editorial cartoonists. And there's a rich and fragrant history of flatulence and editorial cartoons.

So we have a fecal cartoon extravaganza for you today. Sit back and enjoy. Please like and subscribe. I live for the likes and subscribes, so please, please, and, uh, you can click on that QR code to take you to Cagle.com/subscribe, where you can get our free daily cartoon newsletter, which is just great fun.

You see the most popular cartoons in America every day, and thank you so much. Enjoy the slideshow. At the end of the slideshow, we will have a reprise of our wonderful Trump toilet episode and what a great episode that was. So thank you so much and enjoy the cartoons.[00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00]

Hi, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the Caglecast where we're all about political cartoons. And today our topic is Trump toilet. We'll look at cartoons about Trump on a toilet. Trump in a toilet. Trump flushing and stuffing a toilet full of documents and Trump. Anywhere [00:05:00] associated with toilets, we've got a Trump toilet festival of cartoons with four brilliant award-winning editorial cartoonists, masters of the Trump toilet genre.

Pat Bagley is, hey, the brilliant cartoonist for the Salt Lake Tribune in Utah. Since 1979, pat has won a ton of awards, including the Herb Block Prize, and he's also a shining star in our profession. Great to have you here, pat.

Pat Bagley: Well, thank you, Darrell,

Daryl Cagle: tell us about this cartoon.

Pat Bagley: So this is a cartoon that I did.

When it came out that Trump is flushing all of his documents down the toilet. Okay, so this is, this is from 2019 and it's when he was, uh, complaining about water use and how they're restricting water use of toilets. And you gotta flush like 10 or 15 times to get it down.

Rick McKee: Great. I, I love that Pat. I love, uh, your little touches.

Toilet paper stuck to the bottom of his shoe. I think that's great. And like Daryl said there, it's there. It's again,

Pat Bagley: which actually happened, right?

Matt Davies: Yeah. [00:06:00]

Pat Bagley: He, he walked up. Did that really

Rick McKee: happen?

Pat Bagley: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he was walking. I don't

Rick McKee: that

Pat Bagley: air force he

Matt Davies: getting on the

Pat Bagley: plane. He

Matt Davies: was getting on the plane.

See

Pat Bagley: toilet paper. That's right.

Rick McKee: That's

Daryl Cagle: good. Okay. Rick. Rick McKee was the cartoonist for decades for the Augusta Chronicle in Georgia. He draws the comic strip pluggers and we've syndicated Rick for 20 years. Great to have you here, Rick.

Rick McKee: Oh, thanks Daryl. Happy to

Daryl Cagle: be here. And this is a lovely Constitutionalist toilet paper.

Cartoon.

Rick McKee: Yeah. You know, when I drew this I thought this is probably not gonna. Printed, 'cause I've got him, you know, on the toilet with his pants down and his tidy whitey's showing. But I couldn't resist. So I'm, I'm sure I wasn't the only one to do this. But

Matt Davies: yeah, I'm sorry. I like how you've done the, uh, the spray tan line.

That's a really,

Rick McKee: thank you. Good. I didn't start out drawing him that way, and then I. Started, you know, it started becoming more noticeable. So I, I [00:07:00] started sort of accentuating that and of course the little fly, you know, flying around back there. Yeah.

Daryl Cagle: So Jack Oman is the cartoonist for the San Francisco Chronicle, and before that, the Sacramento Bee and the Portland Oregonian, he is won a ton of awards, including the Pulitzer Prize is great to have you here.

It's Jack.

Jack Ohman: Great to see you, all of you.

Rick McKee: Hey

Daryl Cagle: Jack. Yeah, this is fun. Taking the paperwork out. It's great. And

Rick McKee: he is flush with cash.

Jack Ohman: This is one of those cartoons where you're just like so many puns. A little time. I think I jammed in three, so Yeah, no, it's two cartoonists. Can't count. But anyway.

Daryl Cagle: And Matt Davies, this is Cartoon is for Newsday in New York.

He writes and illustrates popular children's books and he's also won a torn of awards, including the Pulitz Prize and the Herb Block Award. Great to have you here, Matt.

Matt Davies: Great to be here. Thank you. Um,

Daryl Cagle: yeah, that's the lovely Oval Office.

Matt Davies: That's a great, that's a

Pat Bagley: great cartoon.

Rick McKee: That's the thing, Matt, that's the thing about Matt is he always finds that thing that you wish you had thought of.

Pat Bagley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Davies: Uh, you guys are too kind. I'm gonna look at the date. Yeah. 2018, I sort of held off on doing [00:08:00] Trump in the, in a toilet until, remember when he said, uh, this one was drawn in response to, um. When he was talking about immigrants coming from like Central America and Haiti and African countries, and he called them, and I know I'm not allowed to swear here from the SH one t whole com uh, countries.

And so I just kind of like, was like I, I. I don't even know what else to draw. It would be like, you know, that was,

Daryl Cagle: I, I have to apologize that for that because YouTube gives us an adults only rating. Yeah. When we are too explicit or, or raunchy in our wordings.

Rick McKee: Isn't it an shame that we've gotta edit ourselves when we're talking about what the president has said, we're quoting the president.

We can't be quoted on YouTube.

Matt Davies: Of course, if you're looking for it, don't. Material. There's stuff that's a lot more interesting than us talking.

Rick McKee: No, it's true.

Daryl Cagle: Yes. Whatever's raunchy on our show is just potty humor.

Matt Davies: But this was early on in the cycle. You know, we'll see a lot of the long ties. If I were to draw this [00:09:00] now, um.

Because I've matured and evolved, um, I would draw the tie longer

Rick McKee: right.

Matt Davies: Than that.

Rick McKee: Exactly.

Daryl Cagle: Trump is wonderful because he's just so descrip in his cartoon cliches with the tie and the blue suit and the hair and the fish lips and the big belly. And you can just draw any one of those. And you know it's Trump and that's wonderful.

Rick McKee: Well, he is,

Matt Davies: he is a

Rick McKee: cartoon.

Matt Davies: Yeah. Yeah. He's like a walking logo, right? Like he's so. Simple. Like he's just like, you do the mouth, the hair, the tie, and it's just like, boom. You can, you, it's,

Rick McKee: well, it's like the, the comedian John Mullaney said years ago, he said, Trump is like a hobos idea of what a rich guy is.

You know, have gonna have the golden hair. I'm gonna Tom buildings with my name on 'em, and I'm gonna hire my children to fire people.

Jack Ohman: Have you guys ever seen him in person before? Yeah, no, I saw him at the, uh, 2018. Good iron dinner. I did the [00:10:00] menu and so I got an invitation to go and we were sitting very close.

Oh, that's

Rick McKee: cool.

Jack Ohman: And the entire. US political and media establishment were there, and what I was really struck by was that, you know, you look at him and I just find him horrific to look at, and I've hated him. The second my brother-in-law gave me Trump the game in 1988, and I was like, what the actual blank?

Did you do that for? Um, I, I was, I thought he was very striking, looking in person and just really stood out. He looked different than every other person in the room. Nobody looks like that. Weird.

Matt Davies: He's also really tall, right? I mean, I met him a bunch of times back in the. Nineties when I worked in Westchester, New York.

And, um, he would come 'cause he was building golf courses and he came in and lied about what rules he would adhere to, et cetera, et cetera. But, um, the thing that struck me, they, of course he was a lot younger then, um, but he was really tall. Like I, you know, you know when you meet someone who's famous and they're usually much smaller [00:11:00] than.

Rick McKee: Right

Matt Davies: then you then you like, they're usually like five five or something and he's like, like I, when they said that he was six three, I was actually surprised I would've put him more at like six five. He was like really tall and he had a really long coat on and he was also extremely friendly. I mean, he's a very, um, pleasant guy in person.

It's just when he got into politics that he turned into, you know, something slightly. Different.

Daryl Cagle: We used to

Rick McKee: have, I've heard that. I, I've heard that he's pleasant.

Daryl Cagle: I, I started my career in New York and, and Trump was just a big character then. And back in the seventies and early eighties, he did the Wallman rink.

He was in the news all the time and

Matt Davies: yeah.

Daryl Cagle: And, uh, I didn't have anything like the picture of what Trump is now in my head. He was a thin, tall guy and, and it was difficult for me to learn to draw him the way he is now. My first Trumps are just terrible skinny trumps and. And, uh, just not at all what Trump is, so I I hate looking back at them.

Jack Ohman: Yeah, that's kind of a funny observation. And, you know, when we all started caricaturing [00:12:00] somebody, it's not exactly like he burst onto the news or anything, but. The, the people who are the hardest to draw are the people who are most like a caricature in person. And you know, when Gingrich came out and you know, John Kerry's very unusual looking guy.

And you know, a couple people like that. And a lot of cartoonists will think, well, I. I've really got this caricature knocked because I can just do the hair, do you know, whatever obvious characteristic, but you can really blow the caricature. And to Darrell's point, I had a hard time getting on Trump for about a year.

Honestly. Wasn't, wasn't happy with, you know, how I was drawing him. I am now, but of course I, you know, have to been exposed to him for seven or eight years.

Matt Davies: I agree. But that would be an interesting, uh, segment to do is the evolution of our trumps. Yeah. Hate the way I drew him at first. Mm-hmm. Even that one in the, the Oval Office one there, I'm looking out, I'm like, we all do this.

Right? When you, when when you get a, a, a new president or politician and you have your first kind of stabs at the caricatures [00:13:00] and it kind of looks like, um, and then maybe it's a little too much of a portrait of them, and then you gradually. Your caricature to be more of their personality and um, and just get better at it.

And like, I do a better Trump now and I'm sure you guys feel the same way. I just draw him better than I used to. You know, I mean that, like, even that one's better than, than the one that was in there before.

Jack Ohman: I, I can't stand the way you draw Trump now. Honestly.

No.

Matt Davies: I, I was a kid because I keep working on it. I'm gonna keep working. You

know,

Jack Ohman: I really

Daryl Cagle: got, this is a great trumpet and, uh, the poop in the rotunda. I think that's wonderful. This is great.

Matt Davies: That was my January 6th, um, and I just didn't know what else to

Daryl Cagle: Oh,

Matt Davies: that's great. For

Daryl Cagle: January 6th.

Jack Ohman: You

Matt Davies: nailed it. That was my.

And, uh, yeah, it's a

Jack Ohman: magnificent cartoon

Rick McKee: in the

Matt Davies: tie is actually in the well. Okay. So, um, I hope my editor's not watching this, but, uh, I told her that this was mud[00:14:00]

and, um, and not sure that she believed me, but, you know, plausible deniability on that one. Um, we are a family newspaper, but, oops, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go. I was just gonna say the, but the mouth. I know you guys probably all c sort of go there too, is like Trump's mouth is, he's, he looks like a tar degrade.

Yes.

Daryl Cagle: Yes.

Matt Davies: Only he has four legs instead of six, but otherwise he's

Rick McKee: Or an Oran.

Daryl Cagle: Yes. You know, there, there are actually quite a few of Trump's spinning in the toilet being flushed and this was mine. That's great. Uh, and it's pretty old and, and it's kind of an optimistic cartoon I think, because he never really does get flushed.

He's always around. But it always seems like something is the next thing that's gonna flush him.

Rick McKee: Yeah. I love, I love what you did with his hair there. What, what was your thinking, Daryl? What were you, you thinking he was gonna,

Daryl Cagle: you know, I don't remember what event I drew this for. Um, and, uh, is

Rick McKee: that mud? Is that mud splashing up on the,

Daryl Cagle: here's my, my [00:15:00] rotunda cartoon, and this was also an early Trump, but this tr cartoon never goes stale.

I could bring it back every couple years.

Rick McKee: It's true. Very good.

Matt Davies: Well, you know, you, you raise a good point, like what, where you were talking about the, that thing, and I think, I think we all have encountered this over the years. You know, when he first came down the escalator and he started calling Mexicans like rapists and stuff, and he literally, like every, he, he did things that made us do cartoons where we were like, that's how, that's.

There's no way he's gonna survive this. Like, this is terrible. Right? And, and it, and it became difficult to make the cartoons. It's, he was worse than the cartoons that we were doing. Right? And then you do a cartoon, and then three days later he does something that's even more. And so, I mean, reference to t Degrade, you know, tardigrades, you can't kill them.

Um, you know, in space I think, or something like that. But he has that same resilience. Like it doesn't matter what he says or what he does, you can't flush him. You cannot, which gets to work.

Rick McKee: And he is, and he is almost impossible satirize. You almost cannot talk whatever it was he just said.

Daryl Cagle: Yeah, but we did Trump as a [00:16:00] dog, and Trump is Hitler, and this is our Trump toilet podcast.

These are standard metaphors for cartoonists. How much can you exaggerate something? Here's the most I can exaggerate it. And we had close to a hundred cartoons on each of those. Trump dog, Trump, Hitler, and Trump toilet. And that's just from our group, because I could search our group and I can't search the other groups.

It's a heck of a lot. This is just our go-to places, the toilet and the Hitler.

Jack Ohman: You know what? Since I've been in this business just slightly longer than Bagley, probably. Whoa. We're

Rick McKee: fine

Jack Ohman: words. No, but you know, pat, I mean, we've been around the track. You know, we have, we started in syndication in 80 and there were these.

With each, you know, couple of years there'd be some frontier of taste that you couldn't go past, and the first one I remember very clearly was something about urinalysis in the Reagan administration. And I remember drawing a cartoon about it and I was like, oh God, I can't believe I'm doing this. But like, the taste thresholds were so different in 1980.

You know, [00:17:00] I wonder whether her block did a toilet in his entire career. I mean, you know, he did a sewer or something like that. But like, I, I can't visualize a toilet cartoon her. Did

Matt Davies: you mean actually drawing a.

Jack Ohman: Yeah,

Matt Davies: boil it. Yeah. Yeah. Because that would've been like G

Jack Ohman: Yeah.

Matt Davies: On, you know, on

Jack Ohman: and, but, so now you have a president of the United States who's establishing a new low and cultural taste norms every 20 minutes.

So you're almost like trying to keep up with them and is. You know, somebody from Minnesota who very likely is related to Pat Bagley because my great, great grandmother had four wives and 38 children. Uh, true fact. You know, you're just like, God, do I, I don't do, I I don't go there. You know?

Matt Davies: Yeah, yeah. No.

Which is why another four years of Trump is so daunting because. We've used up all of the metaphors,

Jack Ohman: buddy. We get another four years of Trump. You're not gonna be drawing political cartoons anymore.

Rick McKee: Oh yeah. You'll be on the run, Matt. You can stay with me. We'll run together, but, um,

Matt Davies: all right. We'll go, uh, [00:18:00] we'll go to Portugal with, with, uh,

Rick McKee: pat Portugal.

Jack Ohman: Portugal's twice.

Matt Davies: Yeah.

Rick McKee: Well, you know, the, the Daily Show just did a thing the other day. I saw a clip of where we talk about, you know, how Trump sort of moved the goalpost and, uh, it was a whole super cut of clips of people criticizing Obama because he had a selfie stick in the Oval Office.

Daryl Cagle: Right,

Jack Ohman: right.

Rick McKee: I didn't even remember that, and I thought, oh, no, and how he, how he was degrading the office because he had a selfie stick.

Matt Davies: Yeah. The, it was the. Uh, saluting the Marine with a Starbucks cup and then the tan suit, right? Those were the, no,

Rick McKee: the tan suit.

Matt Davies: Oh, just the end, the end of of civilization and, and god

Rick McKee: forbid, tan suit.

Daryl Cagle: I should point out that this lovely White House Trump toilet is by Joe Hiller and a very, very nice Joe Hiller Cup.

The long tie, very

Rick McKee: good long tie. The small hands.

Daryl Cagle: Here's, uh, John Darko [00:19:00] drawing on the fabric paper. It's the Donald J. Trump Presidential Library. There were tons and tons of cartoons of the presidential library as some variation on the toilet or the sewer. You know, I've drawn sewer pipes coming out of the White House.

You know, one, one thing we do with our little syndicate is we track the usage of the cartoons very closely and we track through the Trump administration who, where editors were not wanting to print Trump cartoons at all. They just were not being reprinted, but they were still very popular on the internet.

And we can also track things like bodily fluids and see that editors don't like to reprint bodily fluids and you know. Those do well on the internet and they also do well in the podcast. And so we've got all these cartoons that hardly anybody has seen Trump and metaphors that editors don't like, that we're just doing all these podcasts with, and that's working for us.

Jack Ohman: I might, I might not be participating in the Bodily Fluid Podcast, Daryl.

Matt Davies: Oh, it's too late. You're already in it. We're, that's. The second segment here.

Rick McKee: [00:20:00] Yeah. Such a great style. I like, I like his stuff.

Matt Davies: Yeah. Yeah, me too.

Daryl Cagle: Here's Steve Sachs presidential, uh, the National Archives Museum, presidential papers from the, the toilet.

This is very nice. Of course, there was that report of Trump flushing classified documents down the toilet.

Rick McKee: Yes. The great, the great Steve Sack.

Matt Davies: You know what's interesting is that that. He's got, that explains his weird obsession with flushing toilets 15 times. Cartoon totally doesn't need that. It's, it's so strong.

Right? It's just great.

Daryl Cagle: This is, uh, St. Pere, uh, French cartoonist who lives in Thailand that we used to syndicate until, you know, until he

Rick McKee: drew this

Daryl Cagle: well, until he, he started losing his papers in and retired. Like so many of our colleagues, and this is, this is a cartoon that I know none of our American editors would print.

They don't like. Poo cartoons. Um, he did a follow-up cartoon.

Rick McKee: Oh, it's a double, it's a double whammy.

Daryl Cagle: It is. They, they don't like flipping the bird in cartoons either. Right. But, uh, it works [00:21:00] for us and it works for, uh, the internet and I guess it works in Thailand.

Rick McKee: That's great.

Daryl Cagle: Here's Jimmy Margolies with, uh, toilet water.

Speaker 6: This distinctive Trump toilet water is a blend of classified documents, incriminating evidence, and financial trickery.

Jack Ohman: This is like the most inside joke ever. Wait, wait. We gotta mar

Now I'd like to do some other illustrators from the.

My Paul Fell cartoon, IMIT station.

Rick McKee: You know Darrell

Matt Davies: Dar got that.

Jack Ohman: We all

Matt Davies: love Jimmy,

Jack Ohman: incidentally,

Matt Davies: the Filipino. Oh yeah, yeah, we Jimmy's awesome. Uh, he's very different. The, um, the Filipino car. It's interesting that I don't know how many more you have here from, from, uh, overseas cartoonists, but it's interesting how many places, how many foreign cartoonists were able to do scathing cartoons about Trump.

Daryl Cagle: You're thinking of, [00:22:00] uh, many Francisco.

Matt Davies: Well, but they wouldn't be able to do, but they couldn't be. I mean, even the, I even saw Chinese cartoonists doing cartoons about Trump that were really scathing, but they, they could never get away with being that vociferous and, uh, and critical of their own leaders.

You know, like, yeah. No g cartoon cartoons

Jack Ohman: around the toilet. Right.

Daryl Cagle: Well, more than half the world's population lives in a country where cartoonists can't draw their country's leader.

Matt Davies: Right.

Daryl Cagle: And that is very disturbing,

Matt Davies: which is what we're afraid of. Um, yeah,

Rick McKee: that's coming up. That's, uh,

Jack Ohman: yep, yep.

Rick McKee: Around the corner.

Daryl Cagle: It usually comes in when, uh, they start suing the cartoonists. I have a cartoonist friend in Algeria Ali deem, who says he always has 20 lawsuits simultaneously from leaders. That are insulted by his cartoons. We had one cartoonist, Shudi from Slovakia that had his cartoon go to the Supreme Court, and, uh, when, when he was being sued by the president of Slovakia for hurting his feelings because he had a sore back, [00:23:00] he drew a cartoon of the president getting an x-ray, and the doctor says, uh, you, you can't have a bad back.

You're spineless and oh. And, uh, you know, to the Supreme Court, that's terrible, EU country. And that happened in, uh, Czech Republic as well. And I, I think it's a real threat.

Pat Bagley: Why? Why was this last year I was threatened with a lawsuit? Oh yeah. A pretty powerful corporation in Utah. Mm. And uh, the paper backed me up.

And the lawsuit, well, the threat was Pat Bagley has to apologize before this date, or we're gonna sue. And the paper said, we got you covered. And our law firm wrote back to them and said, well, you can't do this because the First Amendment grants because of. And besides you are crook.

Jack Ohman: Yeah. I wanna meet your general counsel buddy.

The truth. As

Matt Davies: a

Rick McKee: defense,

Matt Davies: I've been su I was sued. I was sued by a congressional candidate, uh, in New York. Um. For a million dollars for, um, [00:24:00] defamation. Uh, I called him a racist because he, he was,

Pat Bagley: he was,

Matt Davies: I mean, um, um, but it was same. I was protected under the vaunted first amendment and so, uh, it was laughed outta court, but, uh, it's still scary to get served by.

Yeah. Someone guy came to my house and, you know, I was really,

Jack Ohman: I wonder why they even bother because, you know, the Falwell decision was so clear and when somebody like. Tony Scalia is like your lead defense attorney, uh, on satire. I wonder where they are now.

Daryl Cagle: It's still expensive to be sued and, and even get it thrown outta court.

Pat Bagley: Yeah, but we thought Ro v still gonna have Aro v. Wade. We thought Roe v. Wade was settled law too. And they can change it, right?

Rick McKee: Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't put anything past them. If Trump gets back in, I don't put right.

Jack Ohman: I'm just gonna call that honestly. No, I mean, why bother?

Rick McKee: Yeah. Well

Pat Bagley: they want, they want you to, that's the whole point.

Rick McKee: Oh, that's true.

Jack Ohman: Well

Rick McKee: we [00:25:00] need you on that wall, Jack.

Pat Bagley: Yes

Jack Ohman: we do. You need me on your cell block is what you need me. But I actually don't think this guy is gonna win. And I've seen some really interesting polling in the last couple of days that convinces me that's the case. But you know, we, a lot of us are.

Been doing this for, you know, 30 years or 40 years, you know, and we're coming up on the 50th anniversary of Watergate and you know, Nixon put Conrad on the enemy's list. I remember very clearly, and Trump never talks about cartoons or cartoonists. My only interaction with him was, I remember when I did do this menu illustration for the Gridiron in 2018, and he held up the menu and showed it to Melania and he goes.

And puts it down. So, you know, the only time I president personally react to a cartoon of mine

Rick McKee: he would have to read to, uh, to know about cartoon so that we, we we are sort of protective there.

Matt Davies: Yeah, exactly. He doesn't, yeah.

Jack Ohman: Well I'm just, I mean, it's kind of an [00:26:00] interesting point, you know, because we're, we're throwing everything we've got at this guy every day and 50 years ago, Nixon was paranoid about Paul Conrad drawing him as.

King Lear, king Richard III or something, you know, like, so we different environment and I don't think Drum knows who King Lear. King Richard III is either.

Daryl Cagle: Well, you know, we are pretty siloed. We get hardly any audience when we have conservative cartoonists on. They only care about liberal cartoonists. And, uh, same on my website, my social media.

The people that are liberal and liberal and agree with the majority of the cartoons that are commenting and looking, and the conservatives go to their own silo and look at something else. Um,

Jack Ohman: Branco.

Matt Davies: Oh, Branco. And that and the other guy. Yeah, they're And the other guy.

Jack Ohman: Yeah. We always say Branco and the other guy.

Matt Davies: Conspiracy. They're like conspiracy cartoons. Yeah. They, they're, I was looking

Rick McKee: at his, I was, I was looking at his site just like the other day. I was, what's that guy's name? Gar. There's a

Jack Ohman: painter named McNaughton. Is that who you talking?

Rick McKee: Garrison A. [00:27:00] Oh, Ben Garrison.

Jack Ohman: Yeah.

Matt Davies: That's right.

Rick McKee: He had, he had a, he had a, I don't wanna rip on a cartoon, but he had a, a cartoon of Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin.

And on the table it had written real journalism.

I was like, okay, here's real journalism.

Daryl Cagle: So here, here's Taylor Jones and he's got, uh, Trump Blacks policy softener and makes it easier to pass. And that's, that's funny.

Rick McKee: Taylor's good. Taylor does, does beautiful illustration.

Jack Ohman: Taylor's just the best. I mean, he is just a, you know, ed Wexler level, you know Steve Broner level Caricaturist really fantastic guy.

Daryl Cagle: He does wonderful Trump hair. Mm.

Rick McKee: And we, we talked about this on another podcast, but he used to draw Trump drooling all the time. I don't know if y'all have ever noticed that, but he is, this is one of his classic Trump drooling cartoons.

Daryl Cagle: Here's an excellent Pat Bagley cartoon. Tell us about this, pat.

Great.

Pat Bagley: You guys are brave. The only, the only way I could get this past my [00:28:00] editors was to keep him with his pants up, but I wanted to do the pants down.

Daryl Cagle: Did you, did you, I should have, did you do it with the pants down and he told you to pull the pants up?

Pat Bagley: For my own amusement I did. But

Jack Ohman: people say Trump smells funny.

Maybe that's why Patrick.

Pat Bagley: Oh

Jack Ohman: yeah. But he's, yeah. Absolutely.

Daryl Cagle: That was a great one,

Rick McKee: pat. I I love that. I love your illustration on that.

Jack Ohman: No,

Rick McKee: thank

Daryl Cagle: you. This one's from Dale Cummings. You know, there are a whole lot of Trump in the toilet, uh, often with just no explanation, and they're all very dice.

Rick McKee: I'm not familiar with this cartoonist.

Where is he? Well,

Jack Ohman: is that Cum Cummings in Canada?

Daryl Cagle: Yeah.

Jack Ohman: Dale Cummings. Yeah. Yeah. He's fantastic.

Daryl Cagle: Yeah. And he's, he, all of his drawings look nasty.

Jack Ohman: Yeah,

Daryl Cagle: I like that nasty look. Yeah. And here's RJ Matson Federal. He's wonderful. Government documents here.

Yeah.

Rick McKee: He's a, he is a maniac with the details. I, uh, he always, I'm always impressed with his artwork.

Daryl Cagle: Looks like it takes him forever, but he goes really fast.

Matt Davies: Really? It [00:29:00] looks like real wallpaper, like that looks like the actual Mar-a-Lago, uh, logo. In the wallpaper, it's amazing.

Jack Ohman: And

Matt Davies: the

Jack Ohman: toilet actually looks like it would function, unlike the ones I draw. I think it might be the Mar-a-Lago logo.

Matt Davies: I think it is.

Yeah.

Daryl Cagle: So here's Christo Komar from Bulgaria with the secret toilet paper yelling, occupied, and FDI opened the door. That's fun.

Rick McKee: It was fun. Yeah.

Daryl Cagle: This is Randy Enos. Randy Enos is our oldest cartoonist. I think he's 88. And Wow. You know, he was one of the original national Lampoon guys. I grew up with his stuff in high school, so it's fun to have him still around.

Matt Davies: Yeah. I met, I met him once in, uh, he, he and a couple of other artists had a big studio space in Westport, Connecticut. And I went there and met him when I was a lot younger. And, um, yeah, lovely guy, really. And I mean, obviously his work is, uh, legendary. So

Daryl Cagle: yeah, quite a storied career. And he's just drawn for ev every place that publishes illustrations.

It's fantastic.

Jack Ohman: All those New York guys, you [00:30:00] know, uh, ed Rell and Arne Roth. Then Jules Pfeiffer, they all just kind of sit there and they're 90 and they've been 94 for 30 years. Right? They'll not die, you know?

Daryl Cagle: That sounds like a business plan. We're getting there too. So Rick, no job is finished until the paperwork is done.

Rick McKee: Starting to spot a theme here, Daryl.

Matt Davies: I like the tie. You got the tie all the way along the floor.

Daryl Cagle: Excellent. Trump. Now this is from our Conservative Anonymous. Cartoonist Rivers, he's got Mother Goose reading the book and she says,

Speaker 6: and then the big bad Orange Man flushed all the papers down the toilet, unnamed White House sources say, and the

Daryl Cagle: stupid

Rick McKee: children, Democrats say,

Speaker 6: I know it's fairytale, but I want to believe.

I want to believe.

Rick McKee: Do you have a, how do you find it ironic that the. Anonymous cartoonist is mocking the unnamed source.

Jack Ohman: Daryl, do you have a policy of not using his name? [00:31:00] I'm sorry, what? What Do you have a policy of not using his name? I mean, everybody knows what his name is and I won't use his name, but like, what's the deal?

Daryl Cagle: I'm fine with anybody being anonymous if they want to be

Jack Ohman: Uhhuh

Daryl Cagle: and so we won't say his name. If you say it, I will edit it out because it's, you know, it's, it's polite for him to, uh oh. Are you're mouthing his name now?

Jack Ohman: No, I'm just, I'm just not.

Matt Davies: It's a, that's a, that's an interesting, that's an interesting discussion.

'cause I mean, there are a lot of, uh, cartoonists with pen names, so it's not completely unprecedented. I mean, my name, well, rivers is a

Jack Ohman: change to mix a water metaphor, right? I mean, it's not like you stirred it off as rivers.

Matt Davies: Yeah, no. Right. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you know,

Rick McKee: I know this was probably drawn beforehand, but.

Since this has been drawn, there's been actual photographs of the documents in the toilet.

Matt Davies: Mm-hmm.

Rick McKee: So, you know, this is no longer a fairytale, this is not made up. So if you, if you were like, if you were like in Brazil or Mexico or one of those countries, you wouldn't be allowed to flush it. You'd have to [00:32:00] throw in a little trash can beside the toilet.

Matt Davies: Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Nothing goes into the, yeah. Yeah. No. Solid.

Daryl Cagle: So here's Trump the Ripper by, uh, ed Wexler

Matt Davies: is cute. Oh, rip. Yeah. Trump the ripper. That's a good, yeah, that's a good, uh, play on words. I like that. Ed,

Rick McKee: ed is a great artist, a funny guy. Ed

Daryl Cagle: and, uh, Donald John Trump. Here. You've got Dave w don't, don't worry fellas.

I all you text and flushed him down the toilet.

Rick McKee: That's good. That's clever. Hadn't thought about that.

Daryl Cagle: Donald John.

Matt Davies: Oh yeah. I can't believe I haven't used the John. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh well,

Rick McKee: yeah, I'm making a note.

Daryl Cagle: Jack's yours. Watergate, 18 and a half minute gap in the water closet gate. 18 and a half flushes.

That's very nice. Yeah, that's

Rick McKee: great. That's great. Jack.

Daryl Cagle: Jack, your color makes me laugh. I think your color is funny.

Matt Davies: The the one with Nixon had to have the sier tone. I mean,

Daryl Cagle: yeah. Yeah. I like

Matt Davies: that. I like that touch.

Daryl Cagle: Yeah. And this is great. And again, here you got all those bright colors, but it looks sophisticated with the texture and I think that's really very nice.

Rick McKee: [00:33:00] It's lovely, Jack, that probably pops off the page, doesn't it?

Jack Ohman: Thank you. I'm very kind of you to say, you know, the on the Nixon cartoon, I remember when he died in 94 and I drew a tape recorder, you know, reel to reel and oh my God, even back then, young people were like, what's that? Wow. And again, we're 50 years out from this, and so.

To draw a toilet that's at least a referenceable piece of equipment these days compared to a reel to reel tape recorder.

Rick McKee: Yeah.

Matt Davies: That was, you know, that was my first killed cartoon was when Nixon died. And I, I probably, a lot of people did this, but I did that 18 and a half minutes of silence. Uh, yeah.

Inexperienced cartoonist at the time. And my editor was like, yeah, I'm not putting that in the paper. And I was like, why? It's funny.

Jack Ohman: Well, it's, it's 70. It's 72. You're like the youngest cartoonist now, right? Um,

Daryl Cagle: this is very nice, Jack. And you got the FBI saying No, you searched the toilet. That's funny. And it's, uh, it's bright primary colors.

That's great. Did

Pat Bagley: Jack, did you do this [00:34:00] before? They found out that he was actually storing documents in the, in the bathroom. We've also seen the picture of these top secret documents stacked next to the toilet. Was this before or after that?

Jack Ohman: I don't recall. That story moved really fast, you know, and I guess knowing that he did try to flush the documents was known, right?

So that's this. Joe, but I don't recall my memory's fading. You know,

Matt Davies: you know this, it's funny, I, I'd forgot I found this one when you asked me to, when you asked us to look for toilet cartoons in a, um, I remember doing this and, uh, you know, it was a play on the, the chain gang. You know, sheriff EO was famous for his chain gangs and, um, um.

And I remember drawing it and going, do you think anyone will remember those old toilets? And Well, and I, and so where, so I, you know, I grew up in England and I moved here many years ago, but, you know, and there were a lot of old houses that had those toilets. And I run into this from time to time where I have, [00:35:00] you know, my, my hard drive was kind of scratched as a kid in England.

And so I have cultural references that people are like, what the hell? Like, so I remember like, I sketched that up and I was like. Actually concerned that my editor might be like, what? What on earth is that happening on the top of that toilet? Is that like, because it's, the gag is purely because he is pulling the chain on the thing and you know, of course,

Rick McKee: sure.

Matt Davies: You can't buy that in Home Depot now. You know? It's the little

Rick McKee: Yeah, I got it. That's where Michael Corleone hid the gun, right? Or that's He got the gun.

Matt Davies: Yeah. Yeah, it's an all, yeah, it's

Rick McKee: elevated tanks.

Matt Davies: Yeah. Yeah. But it's very

Daryl Cagle: good. Ed. Ed, you have no obligation to draw eyes on Trump?

Matt Davies: No, I, that's a thing that I've noticed that I do, and I didn't really make a conscious decision.

I, I've started eliminating a lot of people's eyes when I think that they're, um, uh, let's say, uh, let's just say I disagree with them. I feel like taking the eyes away makes them, it, it dehumanizes them somehow, or I, I don't know. It just makes them seem slightly more [00:36:00] nefarious. I've stopped drawing eyes on Vladimir Putin as well.

Hmm. I don't know. I don't know what that is. It's, I probably need to see a psychiatrist.

Jack Ohman: I know. I, I know I eliminate mouth. From time to time.

Matt Davies: Yeah. Mm-hmm. You just get rid of it

Jack Ohman: and you're like, how do you do that? And yet it works. Yeah.

Rick McKee: Yeah. Sometimes it works. Works much better sometimes,

Jack Ohman: right? Well, my rule of thumb is if

Matt Davies: I

Jack Ohman: can't catch the likeness, I just leave that feature out, so you know.

Right,

Matt Davies: right. No, yeah, you're right. And you put like, you, like you have it nailed and then you put the mouth in and it looks like, it's

Daryl Cagle: like, oh no,

Matt Davies: that works.

Daryl Cagle: Yeah. I worked for many years for the Muppets, and they had that same philosophy about eyes, but never mouse. They wouldn't delete mouse.

Matt Davies: Oh, interesting.

Huh. Well, you need, yeah, you need to be able to do this with the Muppet, right? You got the key thing. Yeah.

Daryl Cagle: Yeah. And here's another nice Pat Bagley.

Jack Ohman: Yeah. You're from the wide stand state there, pat. Yes.

Daryl Cagle: Um,

Matt Davies: oh, you know what's interesting about, about this O Okay, so we've all done a cartoon where,

Jack Ohman: oh,

Matt Davies: you say what?

What? And I was always, I always struggle with the, [00:37:00] um, what you put after it to make it sound like you're going what? And, uh, that that's effective. It's an exclamation point and a question mark.

Daryl Cagle: I put in a couple of these, uh, uh, Republican toilet cartoons on gaze because there were a whole lot of them and, you know, we could do, okay,

Pat Bagley: this, this goes back.

So Senator who was in the airport was, he had the white stance.

Daryl Cagle: Yes. He, from, from Idaho, I think.

Jack Ohman: Yeah. Larry Craig.

Pat Bagley: So that's what this is, this is what this refers to,

Daryl Cagle: right? Right.

Pat Bagley: Because you, I first saw this, I go, what?

Jack Ohman: Oh,

Daryl Cagle: yeah, no,

Matt Davies: yeah.

Jack Ohman: You know, pat, we all know Tom Meyer. We haven't seen him in a while, cartoonist conventions.

But, uh, we had a joke for years about there were two types of the fallback, punchline for any political cartoon would be. He, he would use the phrase, stockman. Back when, you know, Dave Stockman was the OMB director and you know, there'd be something missing from somebody's office and it was his budget cutting and so Stockman.

And then the other one is, is now what, and Handlesman and I have been talking about this for decades, you know, which [00:38:00] is like, you don't have a caption, but you got a good drawing. You say, now what? Okay, well and now just what?

Matt Davies: Or there's the, that that is the

Jack Ohman: right, that is the Wild Death still, I'm sorry.

Don't get me started a I'll bet I did one two weeks ago, but, uh,

Matt Davies: spit all that mud.

Jack Ohman: Whoa. Oh, hello.

Daryl Cagle: I did this. Ted Cruz, uh, it's a tribute to a Steve Bell cartoon about George W. Bush and he always drew George W. Bush as a a monkey. And I just, uh, I thought that was wonderful. So I did a tribute cartoon, but there are, just to make the point that, uh, toilets are not limited to Trump.

Matt Davies: You know, it's funny.

Rick McKee: How many clippers do you think ran that?

Daryl Cagle: Um, you know, I, I, as things change and these things are good for podcasts and internet, uh, I'm not sure that we should be self-censoring on these kind of things anymore.

Matt Davies: You know, you referenced, you referenced, uh, that this is a, a tribute to Steve Bell's cartoon.

I, I [00:39:00] remember talking to Steve about that. That cartoon, um, we were doing a, an event together in, in London. And um, and he actually, it did appear in print in the Guardian, but he had trouble even in England where pretty much anything goes. And, um, and he said he had to negotiate the amount of. Turds. Uh, and so they, and so he, so he took, he took a few out and then, and then it was, it was good to go.

Jack Ohman: Also happy 65th birthday. Birthday to Martin Rouse, and who could draw this, but make it even grosser.

Matt Davies: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Daryl Cagle: yeah. Here's Dave Granland Flushing the, the Constitution.

Matt Davies: Dave's Trump, uh, Dave Lin's Trump. That's a, that's a good Trump that really,

Rick McKee: yeah. Yeah.

Matt Davies: He's got the kind, yeah,

Rick McKee: he's got the, the mouth, the downturn mouth and squinty eyes.

Matt Davies: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kind of bull bullfrog kind of [00:40:00] look. Yeah.

Rick McKee: Alright.

Daryl Cagle: So. Pat here is one of yours. The Donald J. Trump Presidential Library also flushing the, the documents down the golden toilet. So tell us about this one.

Pat Bagley: So I had this idea and I thought that's a good idea, and I did it up and it's gonna send it to you, but I thought.

You get that feeling sometimes. Maybe somebody's done this before and you do that Google search and not quite sure. So I did show it to a couple of my peers, a couple of my colleagues, and they said, oh yeah, that's been done. So I did not send this one in. This was not published.

Rick McKee: Well, I think it's great and I think, you know, it's a little detailed that I think cartoonists will probably get and other people won.

You really tried to, uh, get his signature down on those documents. It looks very much like his signature. The other thing I think that's funny that I've noticed through all these cartoons or a lot of 'em anyway, is that sort of a solid gold toilet? I don't know that there's ever been a story that he is got a solid gold toilet, but all of us cartoonists sort of picked up on that and

Matt Davies: no, there was, was there a story?

Okay, yeah. [00:41:00] Yeah. He definitely, uh, has, has or had, uh, gold toilets. Yeah.

Rick McKee: Okay.

Daryl Cagle: I'm sure it's solid,

Rick McKee: right? Gold.

Matt Davies: Gold, right, right. It's gold. It's, yeah. Yeah.

Daryl Cagle: When Johnny Carson died, I drew a cartoon that had Johnny Carson at the Pearly Gates and, uh, St. Peter says, uh. Any cartoonist who draws me saying, here's Johnny is going straight to hell.

And I collected all the straight, all the pearly gates. Here's Johnny cartoons, and, and there were about. I guess 15 or so, and I put them under my cartoon and I put that up on SNBC. And I thought that was fun. And, uh, nobody, nobody got the joke. They just thought every cartoon was funny and we worry too much about this stuff.

Matt Davies: You know, why, what, what part of my, part of my employment agreement with Newsday is no Pearly Gates cartoons.

Daryl Cagle: Is it really?

Matt Davies: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My editor, she's, she's like, no, Pearl Gates cartoon too. They're terrible. [00:42:00] Good for her. Yeah. No, and I, and I, no, we, I mean, it was a, it's a humorous employment agreement, but, uh, yeah, it's, let's move beyond nap gates.

I,

Jack Ohman: I think if you can keep it down to a couple a year, I, I think

Rick McKee: when I started, you know, I, I think I did my share. Early on. Sure. And I was like, and I was like, never again. I was, whatever. Whatever happens. So I'm never drawn another one of those things.

Daryl Cagle: So, uh, everybody, thank you for coming to the Caglecast. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're watching and thank you so much and I will see you later and gentlemen next time.

Matt Davies: Yeah, it great to see you. Good to see you

Jack Ohman: Allall.

Matt Davies: Good to see Y'all. Almost felt like a convention. We,

Jack Ohman: well, you know, how am I gonna turn this down?

You know? So, uh, that was great. That was great fun. I had a good time. That was a lot of fun.