Stormy Daniels and Trump! #10

We dive into the Stormy Daniels and Donald Trump affair, discussing hush money, potential indictment, and the role of political cartoonists in today’s climate. Joined by award-winning cartoonists Pat Byrnes, Bob Englehardt, and Bill Day.

We dive into the Stormy Daniels and Donald Trump affair, discussing hush money, potential indictment, and the role of political cartoonists in today's media climate. Joined by award-winning cartoonists Pat Byrnes, Bob Englehardt, and Bill Day, we analyze various drawings related to the scandal and discuss how Trump's base continues to support him. We also touch on the art of anonymous cartoonists, the challenges faced by political cartoonists in reaching younger audiences, and the importance of delivering a message through cartoons. Don't miss this fascinating conversation on the power of visual storytelling in shaping public opinion!

As we all know, Trump had sex with porn star Stormy Daniels while his wife Melania was at home, pregnant, and Trump later paid $130,000 in hush money to Stormy to keep her quiet about their tryst, Trump's attorney Michael Cohen arranged the payment and later turned on Trump, providing evidence to a grand jury in Manhattan that is expected to indict Trump any time now.

Our three great cartoonist guests are --

Pat Byrnes who is best known for his cartoons in the New Yorker, he draws all kinds of gag cartoons for other magazines, he did a comic strip for years called Monkeyhouse, and he's an advertising illustrator and he's won a bunch of awards.

Bob Englehart who was the cartoonist for the Hartford Courant in Connecticut for 35 years, his cartoons have appeared everywhere and he's won a bunch of awards too.

Bill Day who drew for decades for the Memphis Commercial Appeal and the Detroit Free Press and he has won a ton of awards.

Here are some of our favorite cartoons from the Caglecast, by Rick McKee, Daryl Cagle, Bill Day, Bob Englehart and John Darkow.

CHAPTER SUMMARIES:
(0:00:02) - Political Cartoonists Discuss
(0:10:41) - The Art of Anonymous Cartoonists
(0:17:35) - Cartoonists Discussing News Commentary
(0:27:47) - Cartoons With a Message

(0:00:02) - Political Cartoonists Discuss (11 Minutes)
In this episode, we delve into the topic of Stormy Daniels and Donald Trump, discussing the affair, the hush money, and the potential indictment. We are joined by three talented political cartoonists, Pat Burns, Bob Engelhardt, and Bill Day, who have won numerous awards for their work. We discuss their favorite Donald Trump cartoons and analyze various drawings related to the Stormy Daniels scandal. The conversation touches on how Trump's base continues to support him, despite his controversial actions, and the role of single-issue voters in today's political climate.

(0:10:41) - The Art of Anonymous Cartoonists (7 Minutes)
We examine various cartoons and artists in this conversation, discussing anonymity in the world of cartoonists, particularly conservative ones. We also touch upon the use of pseudonyms and the reasons behind them, such as Austrian cartoonist Martin Siskabits, who drew under the name Rachel Gold. Additionally, we comment on several cartoons related to Trump and the ongoing investigations, including those by Steve Sac, Pat Bagley, Taylor Jones, and Ed Wexler, among others'

(0:17:35) - Cartoonists Discussing News Commentary (10 Minutes)
We explore the challenges faced by political cartoonists in reaching younger audiences who may not follow the news as closely as older generations. We discuss the importance of staying informed through various news sources, and the different angles and perspectives they offer. We also analyze several cartoons by Bill Day, touching on topics such as Trump's impeachment trial, patriotism, and Marjorie Taylor Greene. Finally, we address the differences between what cartoonists want to draw and what newspapers want to print, and the importance of balancing creative expression with marketability'

(0:27:47) - Cartoons With a Message (10 Minutes)
We discuss the expectations and challenges faced by political cartoonists in the current media landscape, as well as the importance of delivering a message through their work. We also touch on the evolution of newspapers and their hesitance to run controversial cartoons, while acknowledging the need to find a balance between being innocuous and delivering a strong message. The conversation highlights the importance of building relationships with editors and readers and emphasizes the value of reading newspapers to gain a broader perspective on various issues. We also analyze several political cartoons and their messages, demonstrating the power of visual storytelling in shaping public opinion'

Episode Keywords:
Stormy Daniels, Donald Trump, Political Cartoonists, Hush Money, Indictment, Pat Byrnes, Bob Englehart, Bill Day, Visual Storytelling, Public Opinion, Anonymous Cartoonists, News Commentary, Cartoons with Message, Single-Issue Voters, Pseudonyms, Impeachment Trial, Patriotism, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Newspaper Cartoons, Editorial Cartoonists

Visit these stories for an update on the Manhattan DA, Stormy Daniels/Trump/Hush Money and possible the upcoming indictment:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/stormy-daniels-website-twitter-arrested-b2306427.html

https://www.newsweek.com/michael-cohen-letter-stormy-daniels-statementwhat-we-know-what-we-dont-1789960

https://nypost.com/article/trump-stormy-daniels-timeline-hush-money-to-possible-indictment/

Here's the transcript:

Stormy Daniels and Trump

[00:00:00] Daryl Cagle: Hi, I'm Daryl Cagle and this is The Caglecast. We're all about political cartoons, and today our topic is Stormy Daniels and Donald Trump. As you all know, Trump had sex with porn Star, Stormy Daniels, while his wife Melania was at home pregnant. And Trump later paid $130,000 in hush money to Stormy to keep her quiet about their tryst.

[00:00:22] Daryl Cagle: Trump's attorney Michael Cohen, arranged the payment and later turned on Trump ,providing evidence to a grand jury in Manhattan that's expected to indict Trump anytime now. We have three great cartoonist guests today. Pat Byrnes his best known for his cartoons in the New Yorker. He draws all kinds of gag cartoons for other magazines.

[00:00:39] Daryl Cagle: He did a comic strip for years called Monkeyhouse. He's an advertising illustrator. Won a whole bunch of awards. Bob Englehart was the cartoonist for The Hartford Current in Connecticut for 35 years. His cartoons have appeared everywhere, and he's won a bunch of awards too. Bill Day drew for decades for the Memphis Commercial Appeal and the Detroit Free-Press, and he has won [00:01:00] a ton of awards.

[00:01:01] Daryl Cagle: You guys have won so many awards. We've got lots of great cartoons to talk about. I'll describe the cartoons for people who are listening to the audio podcast and not seeing the art, and at the end, I've asked each of you to bring your three favorite Donald Trump cartoons, and I'll show you the most popular cartoon you've ever drawn while you've been syndicated by us.

[00:01:19] Daryl Cagle: So, uh, welcome gentlemen. Welcome.

[00:01:21] Bill Day: Thank you. Glad to be

[00:01:23] Daryl Cagle: here. Bob, this is our first cartoon on Stormy Daniels. And this one is yours.

[00:01:29] Bob Englehart: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell us about this thing. I never heard of Stormy Daniels until the Affair, and so I had to do a lot of research. I mean, a lot of.

[00:01:37] Bill Day: You enjoyed that research, I'm sure.

[00:01:39] Bob Englehart: Oh, days and days of research. .

[00:01:42] Daryl Cagle: Well, you can see that cartoonists kind of speak alike. Here's one's from, uh, Bas van der Schot in the Netherlands. Here's one by me. Nothing to see here. Here's one by Jos Collignon also from Holland. Great minds think alike, huh?

[00:01:58] Bob Englehart: And that's what they say. I think it's [00:02:00] sometimes, I think it's lazy minds.

[00:02:03] Daryl Cagle: Distraught husband says, just think Donald Truck could be indicted for misappropriating funds to pay hush money to a porn star he slept with while his wife was home with their newborn baby. What's to prevent that from happening to me? Yeah, the wife says, need dear and the Second Amendment,

[00:02:20] Pat Byrnes: Domestic violence, uh, sometimes is a good thing or at least a threat of theirof.

[00:02:26] Daryl Cagle: I think you make your feelings about this clear. Frankly, I don't really care much about, uh, who Trump sleeps with and I don't really care about him paying off Stormy Daniels. I appreciate that Michael Cohen went to jail for this payoff and other people go to jail for Similar things, but frankly, it's just hard for me to.

[00:02:48] Daryl Cagle: I like the, the silliness of it.

[00:02:50] Pat Byrnes: The country is known for, for how well it cares for its rich. And, and I think that's, I think it's important that we, we coddle the rich because they are our [00:03:00] overlords and um, and they should be able to get away with everything.

[00:03:02] Daryl Cagle:. Well, very good. Here's one by Pat Bagley. Maybe that's what it needs by end times.

[00:03:09] Daryl Cagle: You know, pat is the cartoon in Salt Lake City. He draws a lot about Mormons in the end times. It's interesting to me that, uh, conservatives don't really care about sex scandals, although they seem to be obsessed with sex in every other way.

[00:03:22] Bob Englehart:  They're, they're totally into child pornography and perversion and all that stuff. Well, they're,

[00:03:29] Pat Byrnes: Could you, could you elaborate on that a little bit? I mean, well, they're just, they're totally into it.

Daryl Cagle: They're absolutely obsessed with, it's like they think of nothing else.

[00:03:41] Pat Byrnes: I'm curious. It's, it's a healthy curiosity.

[00:03:42] Daryl Cagle: Bill, this is one of yours

[00:03:43] Bill Day: here. Here he is at the White House. Uh, our great illustrious leader, uh, showing us what, what a jerk he is.  So I thought I'd put it on a banner for us.

[00:03:54] Pat Byrnes:  You should put that by like a, uh, expressway, you know, off ramp. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like in the middle of nowhere. [00:04:00]

[00:04:00] Bill Day: Yeah. It looks like one of those, uh, adult stores where you pull in and you get, you know, get a few videos or something. That's what it looks. That's great art.

[00:04:09] Bob Englehart:  That's great artwork, by the way.

Bill Day: Thanks.

[00:04:10] Daryl Cagle: Yeah, it's a great White House. Bill, tell us about this one, the BR Trump story. Trump says, no, no, no. Don't throw me in that jail as, uh, Brer  Rabbit being thrown into the Briar patch.

[00:04:22] Bill Day: Yeah, I, well, my take here is, is that Trump, uh, he loves being the victim. He loves being the martyr.

[00:04:28] Bill Day: And, and so in this case,

[00:04:30] Pat Byrnes: Hence the spanking,

[00:04:31] Bill Day: he, he, he can really enjoy being, uh, thrown in jail. So his, you know, his base can come to his defense and he can get good publicity out of it.

[00:04:40] Daryl Cagle: it. Well, he certainly does the fundraising off. Yeah. So that's that. And being a victim is a, is great for fundraising.

[00:04:49] Bill Day: Oh yeah. It make, it can make millions upon millions on this.

[00:04:52] Bob Englehart: That's a great period of time that we're living through in America right now. I mean, this is so historic and, and precedent setting and I mean, it's just [00:05:00] amazing. People are gonna study this period of time for hundreds of years.

[00:05:04] Daryl Cagle: You know, cartoonists, were talking about it being a Renaissance when, uh, Bill Clinton was having his sex scandal.

[00:05:10] Daryl Cagle: What is it about sex scandals that make us think it's a Renaissance and the good times for cartoonist?

[00:05:16] Bob Englehart: Oh, it's not just the sex scandal. It's, it's everything that has to do with Trump. Anything that'll put him in jail. I'm in favor of .

[00:05:21] Daryl Cagle: Uh, although frankly, you guys know that whenever you draw Trump, the cartoon just doesn't get printed.

[00:05:27] Bob Englehart: I know, you know, I'm, I'm drawing three cartoons a week and I'm doing. one to try to get published and two,for my soul.

[00:05:33] Daryl Cagle: Well, that's a good plan. Cause we have to have a certain small percentage that the editors want in order to allow us to draw the rest that nobody sees.

[00:05:41] Bob Englehart: That's right. That's right. You have to, you have to pay

[00:05:43] Daryl Cagle: for your art.

[00:05:43] Daryl Cagle: Well, thank you for that, Bob. Put a little bit of food on the table. Here's what, by John Darkow. He's got horse face and Trump. Of course, Trump calls Stormy Daniels "horse face". Stormy Daniel ssays, Hey, you paid $130,000 to get with this horse face, big boy. And [00:06:00] Trump, who is a horse's ass, says nobody has more respect for women than Donald Trump.

[00:06:05] Bob Englehart: Yeah, right.

[00:06:06] Pat Byrnes: Well, I mean, just as an artist, I gotta, I gotta contest that horse face notion that he brings up. She has actually roundish almost to wide face, which is the opposite of, of a horse face. So, I mean, just aesthetically,

[00:06:20] Bob Englehart: um, I, I agree and I think the person with a real horse face is, uh, Marjorie Taylor Green. She has a horse face.

[00:06:26] Daryl Cagle: She does have a horsey face.

[00:06:29] Pat Byrnes: Well, she, and we don't mean that in a derogatory sense, it's just No, we

[00:06:31] Bob Englehart: didn't. It's a, it's a compliment. Well see. He, I love horses. Horse

Bill Day:Trump just loves to call people names. So in this case, she's a horse face. You know, he's, he's having,

[00:06:44] Daryl Cagle: he doesn't put much thought into the names. Okay, Bob, this is one of yours. You've got, uh, Trump and Stormy in bed and Trump says, that was great, stormy, but it wasn't $130,000. I like

[00:06:57] to try to come up with cartoons and make me, make me laugh at [00:07:00] my own cartoons. ?

[00:07:02] Daryl Cagle: Well this, this one is really about the logo on the bed and uh, the logo is really very funny.

[00:07:07] Daryl Cagle: You've got that two-headed eagle in there too. You know, that's Russia. Yeah, I do . He did have that kind of love affair with the Putin.

Bob Englehart: Oh, brother did he.

Daryl Cagle: Trump and, uh, uncle Sam in the indictments canoe going off the waterfall. Uncle Sam says, it looks like we're this together.

[00:07:24] Bob Englehart: It's kinda a nuts and bolts cartoon.

[00:07:26] Daryl Cagle: Another one of yours. "Battle of the Boobs", big boobs versus tall boob, stormy versus Trump. You have this style of drawing Trump where he's got this bald spot on the side of his head. Tell us about that.

[00:07:37] Bob Englehart: Well, it's there if, uh, if you notice on in certain photos and in certain videos, he has this bald spot and the left side of his head. And I like to feature it as much as I can.

[00:07:49] Daryl Cagle: well, very good. Here's one from Dave Granlund. It's uh, Michael Cohen. He's standing in front of the weather chart saying, uh, Mar-a-Lago and vicinity forecast is stormy pointing at [00:08:00] Florida.

Here's Jimmy Margulies. Couple evangelicals reading the newspaper. After a Trump affair with porn star lawyer paid $130,000 hush money and the Evangelical says, as long as she didn't have an abortion, that is really the attitude, I think, oh yeah, if you can do

[00:08:17] Bob Englehart: anything, is an evangelical, you'll support anyone who's against abortion and it makes no difference who they are, even if they've paid for abortions. Welcome to Georgia . I think they're the backbone of the MAGA movement, so I hate to,

[00:08:29] Pat Byrnes: you know, I hate to get serious and philosophical, but they've taken one issue and the whole notion of thing is single issue voter has narrowed their moral scope so badly that, um, that, that they've really lost and I think our society in general has narrowed its moral scope so much that they're only these issues and we don't see the good and evil and the simple caring in so many other issues where we actually need it.

[00:08:58] Bill Day: Well, his, his, his base [00:09:00] will forgive him for anything, you know?

[00:09:01] Bill Day: Yeah. Doesn't matter what he does.

[00:09:02] Daryl Cagle: Here's another one by Jimmy Margolies, the Donald Trump Presidential Library Adult Bookstore. And this is similar to your White House one. In fact, this is a Yazi cartoon. We've probably seen a dozen of these, and they are so true.

Here's Rick McKee with Stormy Daniels, uh, giving a cut of the hundred and $130,000 hush money to a sleazy looking cupid who looks like her pimp.

[00:09:27] Daryl Cagle: Stormy says. This money is from Mr. Trump's lawyer's own pocket and not Mr. Trump's campaign funds to not talk about the affair I didn't have with Mr. Trump. Here's your cut. I think that's pretty cute. That's a very funny cupid. Yeah. Here is Trump in jail. Perhaps this will happen soon. And he's saying, what is that?

[00:09:50] Daryl Cagle: To the big thuggish threatening looking cellmate who says "A non-disclosure agreement. "Non-disclosure agreement comes back to bite Trump. That's funny. [00:10:00] And isn't that a great looking tattoo?

[00:10:02] Bob Englehart: It's, that's a great look at piece of art. Actually.

[00:10:05] Pat Byrnes: I wonder if Trump will have his security detail in. That's, that's a question that's unanswered.

[00:10:11] Daryl Cagle: No, it's answered. He's, he's gonna have it in prison if he's in prison. Oh, good. Then. Okay, so here's our, uh, anonymous conservative cartoonist.,Rivers, draws the Hindenberg blowing up. It's a banking crisis, and on the ground someone says, Hey, this would be a great time to arrest Trump. It looks like he doesn't care too much about this scandal.

[00:10:31] Bob Englehart: Who is Rivers anyway? I mean . I saw the podcast with him and he's wearing a stupid. I mean, come on. This guy's got no courage. . Yeah, go ahead. All these other conservative cartoonists on the site who signed their names to it. Thank you.

[00:10:47] Bill Day: Well, it's nice art anyway.

[00:10:48] Daryl Cagle: Yeah. And I have no trouble with anybody being, uh, anonymous that wants to be anonymous. Uh, it's fine with me. You know, we've got, um, especially around the world, you know, we. [00:11:00] Two cartoonists that were, uh, put into jail last year in our group. They should have been drawing anonymously. A lot of cartoonists. Look, they

[00:11:08] Bill Day: didn't, they signed their name and they were very strong and courageous.

[00:11:11] Daryl Cagle: Yeah, but they're suffering.

[00:11:13] Bill Day: But this guy, this guy won't suffer. I mean, he's, he's a big seller on your site, Darrell, you know what I mean?

[00:11:18] Daryl Cagle: Would you feel better about him being anonymous if he was, uh, liberal?

[00:11:24] Bill Day: No he's not, but he is not. You know,

[00:11:25] Pat Byrnes:. I'd feel better about him being anonymous if there was a genuine threat because there is no genuine threat.

[00:11:32] Daryl Cagle: You know, there's a history of artists drawing under pen names and people don't know or care who they are. There's a cartoonist in Austria who drew for decades under the name of a woman and everybody thought he was a woman, and, a competing paper outed him and then people didn't care. He kept drawing as her and everybody forgot.

[00:11:54] Daryl Cagle: That's Cartoon Martin Syskovitz, who you can see on our site, who also draws as Rachel Gold.

[00:12:00] Bob Englehart: Well, [00:12:00] Rachel Gold is a more interesting name than Syskovitz. .

[00:12:03] Daryl Cagle: Well, Rachel Gold is a provocative name,. He picked, uh, a Jewish persona because of the Austrian guilt about their role in World War II, thinking that that would, uh, increase the interest in sympathy for the artist, which is a little bit, it's a little bit cold.

[00:12:21] Pat Byrnes: He was sympathizing with people that were, uh, marginalized. Yeah. I'm trying to find, I'm trying to find the correlates here, and I'm not finding them.

[00:12:33] Daryl Cagle: The correlate is just that he was, uh, he was drawing anonymously and it wasn't cause of a threat. The

[00:12:41] Pat Byrnes: conservative Oh, we're the victim kind thing. I'm the victim, so I gotta be anonymous. Oh yeah. Right.

[00:12:48] Bill Day: I enjoy watching Rivers cuz his artwork is beautiful. So I don't agree with his politics, but I'd love looking at his art.

[00:12:56] Daryl Cagle: You guys wanna be on a podcast with Rivers ? [00:13:00]

[00:13:01] Pat Byrnes: None. If its gonna wear a mask, only if I can wear a mask.

[00:13:04] Daryl Cagle: You can all wear mask.

Bob Englehart: Let's, let's all do, we'll all wear a mask.

Daryl Cagle:  I don't mind if you all wear a mask. That would be for a funny podcast. Be anonymous. Yeah. It shows your sympathy for rivers. You're right. All right, here's a classic Steve Sack cartoon. I miss Steve Sack. He retired a year ago from drawing cartoons and we miss him.

[00:13:24] Daryl Cagle: And this is a wonderful cartoon. I think I'll make this the cover.

[00:13:27] Bill Day: Everything, everything that Sack did was great. Beautiful work. I just loved his stuff.

[00:13:32] Bob Englehart: Yeah, me too. And he's a great person on top of it.

[00:13:35] Bill Day: Oh, he is. He's a sweetheart.

[00:13:36] Daryl Cagle:  We love Steve Sack, and we miss him. All right. Here's one from Kevin Siers, uh, handcuffs with the presidential seal. That's that's a nice one.

[00:13:48] Pat Byrnes: and that kinda works before and after during the event

[00:13:53] Daryl Cagle:  Here's Pat Bagley with, uh, all the, these issues crushing in on Trump.

Here is Taylor [00:14:00] Jones. I just love Taylor Jones caricatures. And here's Trump talking to Clinton. Trump says "They keep hounding me and hounding me for stuff I did a very long time ago." and Clinton says, "Me too."

[00:14:11] Daryl Cagle: I gotta say, I don't care about either of their sex scandals. There's so many more important scandals that Trump should be tried for and perhaps will be soon.

[00:14:21] Pat Byrnes: Well, again,  going back to Clinton wasn't, uh, impeached for the sex scandal. He is impeached for the perjury. Yeah. And Trump is not phasing the potential indictment for a sex scandal or even the hush money, but for the misappropriation of funds.

[00:14:34] Pat Byrnes: So, yeah. You know, let's, uh, zero in on the real issue. So that, I mean, cuz whataboutism loves to deflect and, um, the more we focus on what the real issue is, I think there's actually more potential for irony and, and, and humor.

[00:14:49] Daryl Cagle: I don't think we have cartoons that point out the misappropriation of funds.

[00:14:56] Pat Byrnes: It's a harder thing to point.

[00:14:58] Bob Englehart: That's not as much fun to draw.

[00:14:59] Daryl Cagle: Yeah, it's not, do you wanna draw boobs or do you wanna draw misappropriation of funds? There's not much of a choice.

[00:15:07] Pat Byrnes: The accountants are, are less sexy. Oh, case in point, .

[00:15:10] Daryl Cagle: Here you go. Here's Ed Wexler drawing Stormy. She says, "I already got my check for stimulus, I wonder why Trump didn't sign it."

[00:15:15] Daryl Cagle: And of course, Michael Cohen signed it and Michael Cohen went to jail for paying hush money and hiding it. I can see why he's so upset that he's the guy that goes to jail for this and Trump was directing him to do this might not. That, uh, that doesn't seem entirely fair. What did he spend, nine months in jail for this?

[00:15:37] Bill Day: Yeah, but he got disbarred too. That's his way of make making a living.

[00:15:41] Bob Englehart: His way of making a living is, uh, taxi medallions in New York City. All right. He's worth millions.

[00:15:45] Bill Day: Oh, by the way, ed Wexler's caricatures are gorgeous. They're just wonderful drawings.

[00:15:51] Daryl Cagle: Here's another Ed Wexler piece. Uh, the tiny hands in the handcuffs. Uh, this works a couple of ways. They joke about him having tiny hands because that indicates tiny other [00:16:00] parts, uh, but also quite easy for him to slip out of these handcuffs.

Pat Byrnes: Yeah. Now we can do a mushroom cartoon.

[00:16:09] Daryl Cagle: Yes. You know, it's a podcast. You gotta explain this to people and young people who do not follow the news like this. Do you wanna explain the mushroom reference?

[00:16:15] Bob Englehart: Yeah. Explain it to me too.

[00:16:18] Pat Byrnes: Uh, stormy Daniels described, uh, Trump's "Florida "as, uh, resembling the mushroom and, and, uh, in Fantasia, right?

[00:16:27] Bob Englehart: Okay. The little mushrooms

[00:16:30] Daryl Cagle: Trump's Florida. Yes. Alright. Here's, uh, ed Wexler again. Where the evangelicals are placing their hands on Trump, who has his head bowed, and it says, "Blessed are the hypocrites for they are the givers of Mulligans." And Trump says, "Watch the hair." That is good hair. They do give mulligans

[00:16:51] Pat Byrnes: Many, many, many million.

[00:16:54] Daryl Cagle: Here is John Darkow, and he's got a couple guys in the bar and one guy [00:17:00] is looking at his brackets for the March Madness and he says, "My brackets are totally busted.

[00:17:05] Daryl Cagle: I had Trump being indicted way before Putin." I think that's funny.

Bob Englehart: Yeah, that's one. It's true.

Daryl Cagle: We expect Trump to be indicted. Surprised that Putin's indicted. And here's another, uh, nice March Madness cartoon from Dave Whamond. Trump is on TV with the lower third saying "Multiple Trump investigations. DA says, charge is likely."

[00:17:26] Daryl Cagle: And they're writing in their March madness Trump indictment pool. One of 'em says, "Who had Manhattan DA in their bracket?" That's cute.

[00:17:34] Pat Byrnes: Yeah, that one, I mean, that one could have worked even captionless because Well, but you'd have to pay more attention to the news.

[00:17:39] Daryl Cagle: And, you know, that's really a, a problem.

[00:17:41] Daryl Cagle: You know, we draw for newspapers. Most cartoonists are over 60 and most newspaper readers are over 65. And, and, uh, we follow the news. We read the newspapers. Young people do not. They get their news on TikTok and I get the email over and over, "explain the cartoon to me, my papers do tomorrow." [00:18:00] Um, and what they don't understand is they don't understand the news around the cartoon.

[00:18:04] Daryl Cagle: It's not the cartoon that they don't understand if they know what the news is. It's really tough for us to reach out to a different and, and younger audience when the whole nature of what we do depends on people knowing about the news that we're commenting on. Do you have any comments on that?

[00:18:19] Bob Englehart: Well, I, I don't watch Fox News, but, uh, I will watch, uh, Brett Baier.

[00:18:24] Bob Englehart: I think Brett Baier is legit and they do, uh, on Fox News, uh, have, uh, many stories that no one, that it's not covered on msnbc, bbc or cnn. And so I watch Brett Baier to get a kind of a, a balance on what other stories are going on in the world today. I forget where I was going with this point, but it was a really good one.

[00:18:43] Pat Byrnes: What are we missing then from, from Fox News? That, that we would be getting, uh, saying

[00:18:49] Bob Englehart: just a different angle, a different, a conservative angle, and sometimes the conservative angle makes me go, oh yeah, right. I never considered that . So that's why I watch it to, to get that kinda [00:19:00] reaction. Oh, really? Okay. I never thought of that.

[00:19:02] Bob Englehart: I can, I can rethink it and, and then go back to my original opinion, but at least I'm being exposed to something that I'm not being exposed to on msnbc, let's say, which I watch a lot of msnbc, I watch a lot of, all kinds of news, but the only conservative news I watch occasionally is Fox. I don't watch News Nation or these others because they're, they're predictable and I know what they're gonna do for the most part. And their opinions. I don't watch their opinions. Their opinions are whacked, man.

[00:19:29] Daryl Cagle:. Okay, here's another Dave Whamond cartoon. Dave Whamond is a great cartoonist, and he's a Canadian cartoonist, but we call him an American cartoonist because if we called him Canadian, he would be just invisible to editors, but call him American and he draws perfectly good American cartoons, and that makes him one of our most popular cartoonists.

[00:19:49] Daryl Cagle: So here is our, uh, secret.lyCanadian cartoonist, Dave Whamond and he's got Trump in jail with Putin. And it says, "With the ICC issuing an arrest warrant for [00:20:00] Putin and looming indictments for Trump. An idea for a dumb sitcom comes to mind." And Putin says, "Donald, what I tell you about your leaving your classified documents all over the, at the floor?"

[00:20:13] Pat Byrnes: No, it's garbage.

[00:20:14] Daryl Cagle: It's. garbage . All right, here's Trump. Uh, give it a campaign speech from. Police truck jail. Uh, his 2024 platform. That was by Adam Zyglis. There's another Zyglis cartoon. Trump has Moses bringing the tablets down. Uh, commandments eight and six Thou shall not lie down and take it from the fake news media and Thou shall not commit adultery with anyone who's not a 10.

[00:20:43] Daryl Cagle: That works. It's stormy for him that.

Bill, this is one of yours. Tell us about this one. Trump has a giant glove and he says, "If it doesn't fit, you must have acquit." Senate trial. Overwhelming evidence. This is one of your favorite Trump cartoons.

[00:20:58] Bill Day: Well, yeah. Um, once [00:21:00] again, working on the small hands. Um, but of course the evidence is so large that, um, that won't possibly fit because it's too big.

[00:21:08] Bill Day: So I thought the contrast and small and big and the overwhelming evidence, uh, made for a good cartoon.

[00:21:14] Daryl Cagle: This is an OJ Simpson metaphor. The young people probably will not get the OJ Simpson metaphor. We're talking to our 65 year old audience. .

Bill Day: Yeah, right.

[00:21:26] Pat Byrnes: Very nice. Over 50 at least.

[00:21:27] Daryl Cagle: And he's got Qanon shoes.

[00:21:31] Bill Day: That's his readership.

[00:21:35] Daryl Cagle: Here we have Trump, he's in the nature of a sweater and the threat has been pulled out and he's all coming apart. Thready, tell us about this one.

[00:21:42] Bill Day: It was just right after, uh, he lost the election and I was just wondering if it, if it was all, it was all falling apart for him and I was enjoy watching it so.

[00:21:50] Daryl Cagle: Just very good. Did, did the use thread, and here he is popping out of the Bible, but you see his little devil's tail coming out of the Bible too. It's a photo op. Tell us about this.

[00:21:59] Bill Day: Oh the, the [00:22:00] hypocrisy of this guy. Yeah. He walks across the street and pulls out a Bible, which he holds upside down, in fact.

[00:22:06] Bill Day: Yeah. You know, and then she holds up the Bible as if he was a promoter of the Holy Bible and just a photo up. It's, you know, one, another one of his disgusting antics.

[00:22:14] Daryl Cagle:  You know, it works for him.

[00:22:16] Bill Day: Oh, I'm sure it did. You know, people aren't paying attention who he

[00:22:19] Daryl Cagle: is. Okay. And I have included  the most popular cartoon that you have ever drawn in your many years with us.

[00:22:27] Daryl Cagle: Your most popular cartoon, most reprinted cartoon in 20 years. Tell us what's going on with this Memorial Day cartoon.

[00:22:35] Bill Day: Oh, it's just America weeping over the loss of, uh, their great soldiers had died in the war. So all the

[00:22:42] Daryl Cagle: wars, so, you know, this is by far. Your most popular cartoon. Um, you wanna speak a little bit to that?

[00:22:49] Daryl Cagle: Why would this be by far your most popular cartoon?

[00:22:53] Bill Day: Well, it's, you know, it, it would, it would touch both conservatives and, and liberals that, uh, who have family [00:23:00] and fathers and grandfathers who have fought in war as great-grandfathers have fought in earlier war. You know, it speaks to the patriotism of America.

[00:23:09] Daryl Cagle: It does, and uh, it certainly was popular. So congratulations on this one. Oh,

[00:23:14] Bill Day: thanks. I didn't know that, by the way, , I didn't know how popular it was. You know, I, you know, as cartoonists we send our cartoons out and I dunno, sometimes we just never hear back from what happens. You know? It just, yeah. The audience never just goes out there and that's it, you know?

[00:23:31] Bob Englehart: Yeah. That's why in the end, you have to draw for. Yeah.

[00:23:33] Daryl Cagle: Yes, we do get plenty of mail from people who are mad at us, but, not that much supportive mail or compliments.

[00:23:44] Bill Day: That's always been the case.

[00:23:45] Daryl Cagle: Bob? Yes. Uh, you sent us three cartoons you wanted to talk about. Here's President Biden in a foxhole in Ukraine and Ukraine guy is surprised saying "President Biden?!" So, uh, tell us about,

[00:23:59] Bob Englehart: Uh, well, [00:24:00] actually it's based on an old, old, old cartoon from when Roosevelt was president during World War ii.

Pat Byrnes: Oh, I remember that one.

Bob Englehart: And Eleanor Roosevelt, there was a coal strike and, uh, I don't remember it. I, I remember seeing it in the book

[00:24:15] Bob Englehart: Uh, there was a coal strike and I think, uh, Eleanor Roosevelt visited coal. To assuaged the workers, and there was a cartoon of a guy working in a coal mine and he turns around and, and there's a, a woman standing, he says, Mrs. Roosevelt? So I thought of that cartoon when I started drawing this, and I don't remember the name of the cartoonist who did it.

[00:24:34] Bob Englehart: It was back in 1939 or something like that.

[00:24:37] Daryl Cagle: Okay. Here's another one you brought us to talk about. You've got the, yeah, the Trump baby balloon that we're all familiar with, and he's flying up in the air and it says a Chinese spy balloon is spotted over Montana. Okay. So what, what is the relationship between the Trump baby balloon and the Chinese spy balloon?

[00:24:56] Bob Englehart: Well, the relationship is between Trump and, and the Chinese. He is, [00:25:00] uh, cozy up to him in the. I figured this idea just kind of popped into my mind when I read about a spy balloon over at. I thought, oh yeah, Trump put Trump in there and I love this balloon anyway.

[00:25:12] Daryl Cagle: So it's not that he's a floating threat over the United States and that he should have been shot down earlier.

[00:25:20] Pat Byrnes: You can say that. You can say that I'm open for any interpretation.

[00:25:25] Daryl Cagle: Okay. I went to a convention where they had this balloon. It was really quite big and cute. Yeah. Okay. Here's your last one you wanted to talk about. This is Marjorie Taylor Green and she's in the psychiatrist's office flying on the couch.

[00:25:36] Daryl Cagle: Psychiatrist is jumping out the window either to get away or,to end all this madness and uh, Marjorie Taylor Green says, "and here's another thing".

[00:25:48] Bob Englehart: Yeah, I like using her initials with her name, uh, on the label, MT, uh, as in empty mind, empty soul, empty heart, , uh, empty green. I like drawing cartoons [00:26:00] like this, that show a before and after.

[00:26:01] Bob Englehart: and a during you can, you can see by as that, that the psychiatrist has been listening and he can't take anymore and he jumps out the window.

[00:26:10] Daryl Cagle: So is he committing suicide or is he just getting away?

[00:26:13] Bob Englehart: I don't know. You have to ask the psychiatrist.

[00:26:17] Daryl Cagle: There you go. And this is your most popular cartoon ever again by a white margin.

[00:26:24] Daryl Cagle: Uh, you've got the man proposing to the woman. Instead of giving her a ring, he's giving her a gas can, and he says, "Will you marry me?" The point being that gas is more valuable than a diamond ring.

[00:26:35] Bob Englehart: I have to confess this cartoon, I drew this cartoon to get, get it published in the newspaper. I was looking at

[00:26:41] Daryl Cagle: So you're a little cynical about this

[00:26:43] Bob Englehart: I was looking at at all the cartoons that are being published in the most popular and so on. I thought I gotta come up with something that's not gonna be offensive to anybody.

[00:26:52] Daryl Cagle: Did you draw an expensive eggs cartoon?

Bob Englehart: No, I did not.

Daryl Cagle: You know, those are by far the most popular cartoons recently.

[00:26:59] Bob Englehart: Yeah. But I get [00:27:00] my eggs from Aldi, so yeah.

[00:27:03] Daryl Cagle: The most popular cartoon this past week, up through yesterday was a cart of groceries, uh, in space circling the earth, implying that the price is high for groceries. Ah, okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, do you have anything to say about the vast difference between what cartoonists want to draw and what newspapers want to print?

[00:27:24] Daryl Cagle: I mean, we have quite a supply and demand issue.

[00:27:27] Bob Englehart: Well, I think most cartoonists have tremendous imagination and can draw anything, so it, it's a catalog of what you wanna draw and what serves your soul and what you wanna get published. And then you have, uh, you have your reputation as a cartoonist. People expect a certain thing from

[00:27:42] Bob Englehart: you as a cartoonist, people that have been watching you over the years anyway, people over 65.

[00:27:46] Daryl Cagle: What do you think about this bill? I mean, you draw a whole lot of cartoons that you surely know editors aren't gonna print at the time you draw them. Trump cartoons, lots of gun control cartoons that aren't gonna get printed.

[00:27:58] Bill Day: Yeah, I don't worry about, uh, getting [00:28:00] printed actually, Daryl, I mean, I, I, I'm sure that you're concerned about it, but you know, I grew up,I was in college during the Vietnam War, and so I, I, I was greatly affected by cartoons that had a message, and I was very influenced by Don Wright, Herblock, and Paul Conrad of all the, of, and many more, but especially them.

[00:28:23] Bill Day: And when I was becoming a cartoonist, I loved the fact that they had something to. And so I, I tend to think of cartoons as what's the message? What, what can I, what's the value of what I'm gonna draw and how will it affect people? And what's, you know, how, how will it, how will it help change, you know, things that need to be changed.

[00:28:44] Daryl Cagle: So that's, well, part of that is, uh, to change things. You gotta get people to see your cartoon.

[00:28:49] Bill Day: Yeah. Well, I can't help but if, if newspapers have evolved and now they're too worried, they're so worried about getting canceled because the cartoon [00:29:00] offended somebody or someone. And, and, uh, so now newspapers are just running, running and afraid.

[00:29:08] Bill Day: Constantly afraid about running. Anything that's controversial.

[00:29:11] Daryl Cagle: Do you ever sugarcoat anything to try to, to, uh, slip a message past?

[00:29:17] Bill Day: No. I just try to be myself. This like, like, like Bob was saying, you know, we have a following people expect us to do, and if I did, if I started doing silly cartoons that, you know, people would say, what's wrong with Bill?

[00:29:29] Bill Day: So that's not who I am. ,

[00:29:30] Daryl Cagle: One of the things that always impressed me about Steve Sack is that his drawings were just so cute and sweet and charming, and sometimes they were just filled with venom, but venom at the same time that it just looked so sweet. And I think that probably squeezed a whole lot of venom past editors that wouldn't have otherwise accepted that in another style.

[00:29:56] Pat Byrnes: Yeah, you can do all you want to sneak stuff by people and [00:30:00] that is a, a worthy cause to try and slip under people's radar and get them to think of something. Go. Huh. You know, just like, uh, like Bob was saying about, you know, sometimes you see something on Fox News in makes you go, huh? There's a different perspective.

[00:30:12] Pat Byrnes: Anything you can do to get people to pay attention to something that maybe they weren't thinking before is good. That said, there's only so much you can do, and if you try to be so innocuous that you're gonna get your, I'm gonna get my face out there, then your message isn't doing any work. So there, there can be a balance to build trust with things that are, uh, less challenging.

[00:30:34] Pat Byrnes: And so that maybe when you do have something that's gonna be a punch in the face, people will stand there and take it. But without cartoonists being embedded in newspapers so much like they were, that's a harder thing to do, to build that kind of relationship. So, we do have a, a challenge ahead of us.

[00:30:51] Daryl Cagle: Years ago, there used to be cartoons who had jobs at newspapers and they would have their, each of their cartoons superior, the newspaper, they could build a [00:31:00] relationship with the readers.

[00:31:01] Bob Englehart: a Yeah. And they could, and we were doing five a week and, and we could piss people off on Tuesday, but make 'em love us on Wednesday and make 'em think on Thursday and piss 'em off again on Friday.

[00:31:11] Bob Englehart: And I mean, we had a, a whole week to run the gamut of emotions and opinions.

[00:31:16] Daryl Cagle: Well, now that editors are looking at 25 cartoons a day and picking the, the one that's not going to get angry letters, that's cute and funny. It's a tough competitive environment and the cartoons are treated as though they're fungible, you know, like wheat.

[00:31:32] Daryl Cagle: You might as well get it here. You might as well get it there. And I don't think the editors get to know the cartoonists. One of the things I'm trying to do with this podcast is get the editors to meet the cartoonists and get a sense of who they are as real people and where they're coming from. Um, I think that's, um, That's, that's important.

[00:31:50] Daryl Cagle: That's one of my goals here.

[00:31:53] Pat Byrnes: Yes, very worthwhile because, uh, otherwise we're stuck in this transactional mentality that is, [00:32:00] um, basically death. I mean

[00:32:03] Bob Englehart: I have, I have a message for newspaper editors who are watching this, this podcast, and it is, we are on your side.

Pat Byrnes: Amen. Amen.

[00:32:11] Daryl Cagle: Okay, Pat, these are the three cartoons you sent me to talk about.

[00:32:18] Daryl Cagle: Here you have the January 6th protestors looking like the Iwo Jima memorial raising their Trump flag. It says, remember this day forever. Donald J. Trump, January 6th, 2021. Tell us about this one.

[00:32:31] Pat Byrnes: Well, you notice that they are raising their Trump flag and using it to beat a cop who's lying prostrate on the ground.

[00:32:37] Pat Byrnes: And, and this was an actual quote. Trump's actual quote to call the riot off and yet to celebrate it at the same time. And a lot of people still regard January 6th as, uh, a holy day in American culture. And those people are, [00:33:00] um, I don't know really a nice way to phrase it, but, but they, they do have a, a, I would say a twisted perspective and I just thought presenting that starkly with the opposition between the quote and our noble, uh, remembrance of Iwo Jima, um, might reframe it enough that people would say, yeah, maybe this wasn't so hot.

[00:33:22] Daryl Cagle: Well, I think that's very nice. I like this cartoon. Here's another one. You've got this See No Evil Hear, No Evil , Speak, No Evil Republican elephant sitting in front of a giant shadow of Trump.

[00:33:32] Pat Byrnes: You just described the point. That's their, uh, regular go-to no matter what Trump does. Whoop. Nope. And they, they're, they, they do not see it.

[00:33:41] Pat Byrnes: We've had many cartoons make the same point today, and I'm sure that we will have many more because this pattern is not likely to break. Right. People will just pitch their souls out the window. I mean, what does it profit a man that he should gain the entire world and lose his soul? Well, we got a lot of people that are, are trying to figure that [00:34:00] out and looking for that.

[00:34:01] Pat Byrnes: And losing their souls. So it would be nice to see it stop, but I don't see it happening soon.

[00:34:06] Daryl Cagle: And here is your last one. You've got Biden as an apple and Trump as an orange, and, uh, you cannot compare apples and oranges.

[00:34:17] Pat Byrnes: Uh, this is a response to the, what about as this came out right after Biden said, "Whoops, I got a few stray classified documents myself", in which he found himself.

[00:34:28] Pat Byrnes: He had his lawyers go in and, and rummage everything he had. What is it, four or five decades of, uh, being in Washington and found some stuff, said, whoops, we better get this taken care of. And so one did things the right way. And yeah, there are oversights and the oversight is not the problem. It's the coverup that's the problem.

[00:34:45] Pat Byrnes: And hence the difference between apples and oranges.

[00:34:48] Daryl Cagle: Well, gentlemen, um, uh, we just went through our last cartoon and I thought there were a bunch of great ones and it was fun to focus on you guys.

[00:34:57] Pat Byrnes: I would say to anybody out there, read newspapers, [00:35:00] read newspapers. Uh, more than just get things on TV. 'Cause if you look way down at the bottom of the article, you're gonna get details that you don't get otherwise.

[00:35:11] Bob Englehart: Yeah. Reading in newspapers, like reading a catalog. You, you turn the page, you see things you like, things that you don't like, things you're confronted with, that you don't wanna be confronted with. It opens your mind very good.

[00:35:23] Bill Day: I, I just wish more people would read 'em. I, you know, I, I have children that, um, they, I, I send my cartoons to 'em via email and they don't know what I'm talking about.

[00:35:32] Bill Day: Cause I didn't read a newspaper. So, I mean, I, I'm not even understood by my own children sometimes. So, So, yeah, gotta read newspapers. Luckily though, I must say that I now work for a, a publication called FloridaPolitics.com and I have an editor/publisher that agrees with cartoons that have a message. And so he really likes my cartoons.

[00:35:53] Bill Day: He, I don't even think he likes my cartoons. He likes being controversial. That's what he likes. And so, I'm that, so, [00:36:00] I really do needle Tallahassee the politicians in Tallahassee, cuz most of my cartoons are about Florida. I needle those guys and he loved me needling those guys cuz they're such Bozos and mean, they're truly outta this realm of the right wing.

[00:36:15] Bill Day: And they're so far to the right now, they're passing laws that are totally unconstitutional, but they'll pass. They'll pass 'em because, you know, because DeSantis likes 'em, I,

[00:36:26] Pat Byrnes: one reason I hope that DeSantis doesn't go anywhere is because I, I still cannot, I still cannot caricature him. Well, that, that would be a hardship.

[00:36:36] Bob Englehart: I haven't drawn him yet. I have not drawn Ron DeSanctimonious yet.

[00:36:39] Bill Day: Well, what you gotta do is, uh, come up with a version of DeSantis that. Doesn't look so much like him, it becomes your version of who he is. Like, right. I can remember like Doug Marlette had a, had a, he ddrew Drew, uh, Reagan, right? Looked nothing like Reagan, but he always drew Reagan the same way.

[00:36:58] Bill Day: And I knew that that was Reagan, [00:37:00] cuz that's what Doug did. Yeah. So that's what I do with DeSantis. I just draw what I draw of him. I exaggerate his top lip more than I should, but that's, that's what I do. So, okay,

[00:37:11] Daryl Cagle: Gentlemen, there we'll do, we'll do a DeSantis podcast before too long. Ok.

[00:37:17] Pat Byrnes: Do a DeSantis caricature webinar, how to capture his soullessness on paper

[00:37:22] Daryl Cagle: Gentlemen, thank you for joining the Caglecast today, and thanks everyone. Remember to subscribe to the Caglecast wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast. Go to Cagle.com to see all the cartoons and the latest Caglecast. Be sure to watch next week. Thanks again, gentlemen. Thank you.

[00:37:39] Bill Day: Yep.

[00:37:39] Bill Day: Thank you.