Trump-Dog! The Best Political Cartoons About Trump as a Dog!

Transcript:

[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHey everybody. I'm Daryl Cagle and this is the CagleCast where we're all about political cartoons. And today our topic is " Trump Dog". That's both Trump the dog and Trump with a dog and anything that is Trump-dog related. And we have. Four great cartoonists, plus myself, here today to talk about Trump and dogs gentlemen, it's great to have you all here.

[00:00:28]Pat BagleyGood to be here.

[00:00:29]Bob EnglehartGreat to be here.

[00:00:30]Daryl CagleOkay. we're going to start off with Pat Bagley. Pat has been the brilliant cartoonist for the Salt Lake Tribune in Utah since 1979. Pat has won a ton of awards, including the Herblock Award, and he's also a shining star in our profession.

[00:00:44]Daryl CagleGreat to have you here, Pat. Good to be here. So tell us about this cartoon.

[00:00:47]Pat BagleyWell, of course, when we do cartoons, we Look at all the news and they did this during the Westminster dog show. And to me, it was just, an easy one. you know, these dogs respond to commands and I thought, well, there's Trump.

[00:00:59]Daryl CagleHe is such a toady to Putin.

[00:01:04]Taylor JonesI like Trump's lips here, Pat. Oh, thank you.

[00:01:08]Daryl CagleThe lips are funny. Um, early

[00:01:10]Pat Bagleyon in the, in the evolution of Trump as a cartoon character, and it took me a while to kind of land on what I finally, decided to make him look like.

[00:01:18]Pat BagleySo this is, I'm still trying to figure out what he, what he looks like and how to draw him.

[00:01:21]Taylor JonesWell, have you noticed that, Trump's daughter Ivanka does bear quite a resemblance to her dad in a much nicer way, of course, but they both have the same kind of lips and, Trump really actually has little feminine lips that are strangely pink.

[00:01:34]Taylor JonesI don't know if anybody's noticed that, but me, because I always, when I'm, when I'm painting a cartoon with him in it. I always have to go pinker on his lips.

[00:01:42]Dave WhamondI've actually noticed they're white a lot sometimes. It's like he puts some sort of powder on there or something. I don't know what it is.

[00:01:48]Daryl CagleWell, there's a whole bunch of Trump standards that everybody's adopted. The small hands, the blue suit, the always red tie,

[00:01:55]Pat BagleyThe long tie.

[00:01:56]Daryl CagleYes, the long red tie.

[00:01:58]Bob EnglehartIt's his brand.

[00:02:00]Daryl CagleYou have to follow those or else it looks like you got something wrong.

[00:02:04]Bob EnglehartI don't know about you guys, but my caricature of Trump changed after, uh, the mug shot.

[00:02:08]Bob EnglehartI was drawing him one way before the mug shot, and now I'm drawing him as pure evil.

[00:02:13]Daryl CagleWell, I used to live in New York, and I remember Trump from the 1970s, and he was tall and skinny, and it took me a long time to think of him as being so fat.

[00:02:22]Bob EnglehartYeah, he, I think he looked like Elvis when he was

[00:02:24]Bob Englehartyounger.

[00:02:25]Taylor JonesMy, you know, my, my, my ex wife thought Trump was very handsome, cute, cute as a, as a younger man.

[00:02:31]Daryl CagleSo Pat, here's one that I did that is similar because it's so obvious that he is such a Putin toady.

[00:02:39]Daryl CagleSo Bob, this is the first one from our Bob Engelhart, who was the editorial cartoonist for the Hartford Courant for 35 years when his job was eliminated before that, he worked for Chicago Today and the Journal Gazette in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and the Journal Herald in Dayton, Ohio.

[00:02:55]Daryl CagleAnd we have syndicated Bob's work for nearly 20 years. Great to have you here, Bob. Yeah, great to be here. Go to Cagle.com/ Engelhart and, put a little money in Bob's tip jar. And we would really appreciate that because, Bob really needs a tip.

[00:03:09]Bob EnglehartI, wanted to point out that, I, this is how I drew him until the mugshot.

[00:03:14]Bob EnglehartAfter the mugshot, I had a different character, but, this is, I drew him with the, the, the mouth of a sucker fish, you know, a bottom feeder I don't know if you've ever fished a river, but, uh, you can catch a sucker there, an ugly fish, and, I had to draw his mouth like that because every time he talks, I see that I just see his mouth like a sucker.

[00:03:32]Daryl CagleI like how you always have the bald spot in his part.

[00:03:35]Bob EnglehartOh, yeah. I see it. It's there.

[00:03:37]Pat BagleyYeah.

[00:03:38]Bob EnglehartHe tries to hide it, but, uh, his skin is so pink. he puts the makeup on it, so

[00:03:42]Taylor Jonesit's nice and orange. Pink and orange. Pink and orange. Yeah.

[00:03:45]Daryl CagleBronzer.

[00:03:46]Daryl CagleSo Dave, here we have Dave Whamond, he is incredibly prolific. Dave draws two comics, Reality Check and Day by Dave. And Dave is also a prolific illustrator who does puzzles and greeting cards and lots of top selling children's books. And of course, wonderful political cartoons for us. Great to have you here, Dave.

[00:04:06]Dave WhamondOh, thanks for having me.

[00:04:07]Daryl CagleSo tell us about Wagging the Don.

[00:04:10]Dave WhamondThanks Well, first off,

[00:04:11]Dave WhamondI just want to mention my dog, Reuben, wants, nothing, no association in whole or in part with Donald Trump because we're doing Trump dog and in one sentence or any politician for that matter. So, so anyway, yeah, this, I can't remember.

[00:04:23]Dave WhamondThis is quite a while ago. it's funny how you go back and you can't even remember at the time what was going on, but I just, you know, wagging the dog reversal with wagging the Don. So I can't remember the exact, Event that was happening with this one, but I thought I'd

[00:04:36]Dave Whamonddo a reversal on it.

[00:04:37]Daryl CagleWell, there was a, an event.

[00:04:38]Daryl CagleHere's another wagging the dog from Adam Ziglis from the same time. 2016 is when this was happening. And there are lots of wagging the dog cartoons that don't necessarily have Donald Trump's head on a metaphorical dog. I don't remember what was going on either, but he was, I guess, being warlike.

[00:04:55]Dave WhamondYeah, it's hard

[00:04:56]Dave Whamondto remember. It's like, so much happened in those four years and continues to happen, like, every day it's hard to, keep everything straight after

[00:05:02]Taylor Jonesa while. especially the way Trump, muddies everything with constant tweets and what have you. Mm hmm.

[00:05:07]Daryl CagleMm hmm. Here's one of my Trump dogs.

[00:05:09]Daryl CagleThis is Trump marking his territory.

[00:05:11]Bob EnglehartHow many newspapers use that cartoon?

[00:05:14]Daryl CagleThey don't like it.

[00:05:14]Bob EnglehartWhen I was working for The Current, it was just a thing. I could not get any puddle. But then one day my editor published a Oliphant cartoon with a fire hydrant and a puddle next to it. And I pointed out, I said, so you're, you're publishing dog pee puddles now?

[00:05:30]Bob EnglehartHe said, what do you mean? And I said, you see that puddle next to the fire hydrant and you see the dog? That's a puddle of pee. He

[00:05:36]Bob Englehartwas shocked.

[00:05:39]Taylor JonesAfter that, after that, did they relent? Let you, uh,

[00:05:43]Dave WhamondDaryl, you'd mentioned that a lot of the publishers don't like to use or editors don't like to use Trump cartoons as much, but they're very popular online. And I'm wondering if, in the seventies or eighties, if these would have made the papers a little more regularly, or is it just because they like playing it safe now, or it'd be interesting to find out.

[00:06:05]Daryl CagleI don't know. They have shied away from Trump. And, uh, I think that's cause you make. Maybe it's because you make half the people angry.

[00:06:12]Taylor Joneswell, yeah Dave, I think you're onto something there I think that comedy in general was much edgier in the 70s as well as the late 60s and you think of a cartoonist, um, Ralph Steadman and Just about all those cartoons.

[00:06:26]Taylor JonesIt ultimately boiled down to Emissions of some sort.

[00:06:29]Bob EnglehartYeah, and I also think that an editor doesn't want to spend all day on the phone defending a cartoon. I mean, they're so overworked, they're understaffed, they got They're running scared and, uh, they don't want to, they want, they want to make people

[00:06:42]Taylor Joneslaugh.

[00:06:43]Taylor JonesOr maybe their printers have told them that yellow ink is more expensive.

[00:06:46]Daryl CagleSo Taylor, I think you outdid me.

[00:06:49]Taylor JonesMaybe the first time it's been published.

[00:06:55]Bob EnglehartThis is a great drawing. This is a great drawing. You can actually smell it.

[00:06:58]Taylor JonesExcuse me, Bob. I appreciate that. Well, this, you know, I'm, I'm sort of, uh, I'm not sure what to say here because this was in reference to, uh, the blank blank countries that, Trump himself, as, as Trump himself described them, I guess we can't do that on this podcast, can we?

[00:07:22]Daryl CagleWell, I think YouTube searches the transcript for four letter words. So if you say the four letter words, I will cut them out.

[00:07:30]Taylor JonesI see. Well, of course, this is totally, I guess this could be a hyphenated eight letter word, but, uh, this, again, this was after he described the developing world in certain, terms.

[00:07:41]Taylor JonesAnd this was my response to it.

[00:07:42]Daryl CagleVery good. there are variations on this theme. I thought this was nice. stepping in the Trump MAGA hat. And that's a curse word we can use. MAGA? perhaps he is saying MAGA.

[00:07:54]Pat BagleySo what I find interesting is that this is by Rick McKee. Yeah. Who is the conservative cartoonist.

[00:08:00]Pat BagleyYeah. But he wants nothing to do with Trump.

[00:08:03]Taylor JonesBut there are some out there like that. Yeah,

[00:08:04]Dave WhamondI think Rick's kind of, Rick's almost more in the middle, I find, with, with some of this stuff. there's some that are still hardcore on the Trump side, so.

[00:08:12]Bob EnglehartOh man, hardly ever. And I look at those cartoons and I think they cannot possibly believe what they're saying here.

[00:08:18]Bob EnglehartBut they do, and they probably think the same thing about me.

[00:08:21]Daryl CagleThis is a lovely cartoon, Taylor. Mutual admiration society. We have the dogs sniffing each other's butts.

[00:08:27]Taylor JonesYeah, well, Bibi and Donald and Vlad and, uh, well, that's what they do. You know, they're strong men who all admire each other. And, they're just letting them, they're just letting each other

[00:08:37]Daryl CagleYou know, we've discussed this before, but I love how you always have Trump drooling.

[00:08:41]Taylor JonesI don't do that so much anymore. Well,

[00:08:43]Daryl Caglewhat caused you to change?

[00:08:46]Taylor JonesI guess I got a little bored with it. I may come back. In fact, I might have, both Trump and Biden drooling, that, that'd probably be appropriate in terms of, if they, if they actually debate, it'll be a

[00:08:54]Daryl Cagledrooling debate. That's very even handed of you.

[00:08:56]Dave WhamondI find it's hard to take a politician and change them into an animal. I think you did a nice job in those, uh, you can still recognize the caricatures.

[00:09:05]Taylor JonesDaryl, can you go back to that cartoon just for a second? Have you had a problem with editors with testicles?

[00:09:09]Daryl CagleI don't remember them mentioning it in particular, but I don't think you've ever seen them on the most printed cartoons list I send you.

[00:09:16]Taylor JonesWell, of course you see them on Putin, but I always. Whenever I've drawn a dog in a cartoon, uh, especially if it's as a person, uh, I'll try to fit them in there, but do it in a way that it's, you know, understated. It's where someone has to look.

[00:09:30]Daryl CagleDo you watch Rick and Morty? Well, you should watch it because it is all about putting testicles into everything.

[00:09:38]Dave WhamondIt's my son's favorite. So I'm, I'm familiar with it. He's always showing me clips.

[00:09:42]Taylor JonesI'll check it out.

[00:09:44]Daryl CagleSo this is from a Bulgarian cartoonist, Christo Komarnitsky, and I thought this was cute. There's actually quite a few of these, cone on, on Trump's head cartoons that keep him from chewing on himself.

[00:09:57]Taylor JonesAnd it's kind of the ultimate humiliation for dogs to have to wear those things. I mean, obviously they have a purpose, but every dog looks Silly and I think maybe they feel that way Wearing those things,

[00:10:06]Daryl Cagleyou know, it's got a handle on it, which also defines it as a bull horn.

[00:10:09]Dave WhamondYeah, that's what I was noticing Yeah

[00:10:11]Daryl CagleHere's one from Adam Ziglis.

[00:10:13]Daryl CagleSays the inner circle as Trump wears his cone I guess North Korea is in the inner circle of him.

[00:10:19]Pat BagleySo there's a cartoon by Steve Sack where he gives Donald Trump, the cone of shame on his little hands so that he can't sign stuff. I don't know if you'd call that good. It was really

[00:10:30]Taylor Jonesgood.

[00:10:31]Daryl CagleThis is R. J. Mattson with the border wall cartoon. Trump is the beware of dog, and they're climbing over the border wall, and Trump is a threatening dog to them on the American side. he didn't seem to keep them out that much though. Perhaps

[00:10:45]Bob Englehartmore than now. I like the details. I like the details in there. I hate to draw details, but I like to see them in other people's cartoons.

[00:10:51]Daryl CagleThere's something kind of charming and old fashioned about the way that he's kind of equally spaced the details in the ground. Yeah. Kind of a 1930s look, you know?

[00:11:01]Taylor JonesRJ's very good at the details.

[00:11:03]Daryl Cagleyeah, it's charming. This is from Ed Wexler, and you have here Doggy Trump, who is chewing up the Constitution, and Paul Ryan says he just doesn't know any better.

[00:11:12]Daryl Caglethat's cute. Of course, that's a very early Trump. I think, Ed has developed his Trump. And we've lost Paul Ryan, and we don't see him anymore.

[00:11:19]Taylor JonesWell, it's a great Paul Ryan, and, and I think, Ed's one of the great Trump caricaturists. But one thing he's stuck with, and, and I guess it's an early Trump.

[00:11:26]Taylor JonesBut that kind of fold of hair on the top of his head, that's a trademark of all of Ed's Trumps, I really like it.

[00:11:33]Dave WhamondYeah, and it's interesting to see all the different depictions of his hair in all these different

[00:11:38]Daryl Caglecartoons. Some people draw a big spike of hair. some people draw whisps that flow around.

[00:11:45]Daryl CagleSo here's, Bill Day. Trump is chewing up the newspaper, the free press, calling it fake news. there's a lot for Trump to chew up.

[00:11:52]Taylor JonesI like Trump's nose here.

[00:11:54]Daryl CagleThis is one of mine during the pandemic. This is uh, what the doggie hears cartoon, which we've all drawn and, uncle Sam says pandemic, but the doggie Trump hears election fraud, everything sounds like election fraud to him.

[00:12:08]Pat BagleyThe Republicans that I have pointed out before is that two thirds of them believe a lie. Which is an election stolen. And here I am in red Utah, and most of the legislature, which is in session right now, they love lies.

[00:12:22]Pat BagleyThey love this kind of lie about how they have been, marginalized. That they're the ones who are being discriminated against. and they own everything here. But they're convinced that they are being the, the subject of discrimination and they're really angry about D. E. I. they recently outlawed that in, in the state, male religious people rule the state.

[00:12:42]Pat BagleyThey run everything, but they think that they're being, abused.

[00:12:46]Taylor JonesI feel you should question, their policies, question their, the worth, the worthiness of them, the necessity.

[00:12:53]Taylor JonesThe expense, uh, raise the, specter of, unintended consequences. but, with, with Republicans, it's easier. you should question their motives. What are they saying? What are they really saying? What are they really trying to do? And I think the, lie stuff just fits right in.

[00:13:08]Taylor JonesThere's something else going on. They don't believe half of what they're telling you.

[00:13:12]Dave WhamondI was reading about this the other day, just how, a, lot of the Republicans in power secretly behind the scenes don't believe any of this stuff, but it works. So they, their base, eats it and that's kind of all they have is just to say election fraud, you know, doesn't go their way.

[00:13:27]Dave WhamondAnd, uh,

[00:13:28]Pat BagleyBiden has opened our borders and is Inviting, people from South America to your neighborhood and it's nonsense.

[00:13:35]Daryl CagleI think we are what we do if you act like you believe it, then it doesn't make any difference if in private you don't believe it. I'm not going to cut them any slack for saying in private that we never hear that they don't believe stuff.

[00:13:48]Taylor JonesI think on the left, I think people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren really believe. That all their plans are going to work and just make the world wonderful. They really believe it. And I think with Republicans, they just don't believe what they're, what they're saying.

[00:14:02]Bob Englehartwell, I think with the Republicans, it all comes down to abortion. It's all about abortion and they'll say whatever they have to say to keep their power. it's, and also I think that, with the, evangelicals. they believe the, word of the Bible and that the Bible is, exact science. And I think anybody that believes that will believe anything.

[00:14:21]Dave WhamondLike Trump is a godly man.

[00:14:23]Daryl CagleI think abortion is just one thing on their list. I mean, they are certainly obsessed with sex.

[00:14:30]Bob EnglehartAlso think that these people are victims and then probably a lot of them were sexually abused as children and have never dealt with it. And, and, and so that's, they go into the sexual thing. I mean, It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.

[00:14:46]Pat BagleySo, so, being in Utah for almost 50 years doing cartoons, I occasionally get these people who run on a purity platform.

[00:14:54]Pat BagleyYeah. They're against pornography, they're against nudity, and they, you know, bring this up in the legislature. And there was this guy named Robert Estes, who gained a lot of traction here because he was just a crusader against, pornography and against underage sex and blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's the guy who hit Justice Blackmun who's speaking at the University of Utah and he goes up on the stage and he punches him.

[00:15:16]Pat BagleyHe hits him. And then it turns out later that this Estes character was creeping on young girls. So it's always projection. That's not the only, that's not the only example I could bring you about what's going on in, in these right wing, very religious circles because it happens here in Utah all the time.

[00:15:34]Pat BagleyYou know, they're very religious. They're very Mormon. They're very rigid. but then you've got the speaker of the house, 10 years ago, who is. hot tubbing naked with a 16 year old girl, he gets up there and he confesses to the entire house. He confesses and they give him a standing ovation.

[00:15:50]Taylor JonesOh,

[00:15:51]Bob Englehartman,

[00:15:52]Taylor JonesPat, I thought since you've been in Utah for so long or had been, I thought that one thing that separated the Mormons was a real healthy, uh, attitude towards sex in general among Mormons.

[00:16:01]Pat BagleyWell, I'm grateful to have grown up Mormon, because sex will always be dirty to me.

[00:16:05]Taylor JonesOh, okay. Fine. I was mistaken.

[00:16:08]Daryl Cagle, every time I sit down to talk about dogs, we end up talking about religious extremism.

[00:16:14]Taylor JonesDaryl, uh, the earlier The Hitler podcast. You said that, everything eventually winds up with a reference to Hitler. Are we going to get to that here?

[00:16:21]Daryl CagleGodwin's law. I think we just mentioned Hitler, Taylor. Very good.

[00:16:26]Daryl Caglehere's, this is one of my first Trumps before I knew how to draw Trump at all.

[00:16:30]Daryl CagleAnd this was when he had just knocked off all of those, GOP challengers in the primaries.

[00:16:34]Taylor JonesYeah, that's good. But you got those, you got those little, those funny little lips of his, right? You get just the way, you know, they kind of, they kind of really sort of, just a little tiny pout sticking out.

[00:16:45]Daryl CagleOh, I look at this Trump and I cringe.

[00:16:47]Daryl CagleThat's not what he should look like. We don't have, we've gone beyond drawing him what he should look like. All we have to do is have a few of those cues of Trump and we can do anything. ,

[00:16:56]Dave Whamondit's almost like, impressionists they kind of go overboard with the impressions. Now I remember even George Bush and Dana Carvey.

[00:17:03]Dave WhamondHe did the Na Ganda, It was like way over the top. He didn't sound like that at all. But everyone knew who knew who he was. Uh, imitating .

[00:17:09]Daryl CagleSo this is from Joep Bertrams, and this is an exuberant Trump humping the leg of Macron . I think this is funny. I don't think we get, dog humping cartoons reprinted much, but you know, I haven't tracked that either.

[00:17:22]Bob EnglehartI like his style. It's always a square cartoon. It fills with every, all the drawing fills the frame. There's something about it that, uh, it's unique. Yeah, definitely.

[00:17:31]Taylor JonesAnd this has some real good humping action. You can kind of feel it.

[00:17:34]Daryl CagleYeah. There was a time there when he was just, so enamored of Macron because Macron had these big military parades.

[00:17:41]Daryl Caglehe wanted to do that. Right, right. He never quite achieved that.

[00:17:45]Dave WhamondAt the same time, I think he, he dislikes or is threatened by politicians that are better looking than he is, like, he doesn't like Trudeau. He doesn't like Macron. I think, I think he had an issue with him at one point because he's better looking and Trump has to think he's the top dog.

[00:17:59]Taylor JonesAlthough earlier, early in, Trump's presidency, which kind of dovetailed with Macron's. Macron was very open and welcoming to, Trump and Melania, Macron's tried to stay on, uh, he tried to stay on Trump's right side, the whole time.

[00:18:13]Daryl CagleIt's hard to get to the right of Trump.

[00:18:15]Taylor JonesI mean, In a social way, very good. But these

[00:18:18]Pat Bagleyworld leaders kind of have to keep on the right side of Trump because he's the most powerful for sure

[00:18:23]Daryl CagleSo here's one of my Trumps he's getting bit by Omirosa I remember Omirosa and Omirosa really did turn against him.

[00:18:29]Daryl CagleShe wrote a Trump bashing book. And I thought that was all great fun. And we had a whole bunch of very nice Omarosa cartoons, but Omarosa has kind of sadly been forgotten. And, she was fun for a week.

[00:18:41]Bob EnglehartWhere, where is she now?

[00:18:42]Daryl CagleOh, she's gone. So Taylor, tell us about this one. You've got Trump and his lookalike friend.

[00:18:48]Taylor JonesBoris, Johnson, you know, they both have that crazy hair and different kind of crazy hair and Boris, was very much , kind of aped Trump's style in some ways, being very brusque and kind of, you know, just forcing himself on, upon people.

[00:19:00]Taylor JonesDifferent on the environment, I'll say that. But, I just thought that, that just came to me, you can Google dogs that look like their owners and you're going to find Endless pictures of this sort of thing.

[00:19:09]Daryl Cagleso you think that Boris Johnson was real toady to Trump?

[00:19:13]Taylor JonesPartly. Yes. I think so.

[00:19:15]Taylor JonesI think that the British Tory party when Johnson was, in charge, wanted to kind of, um, Sort of be Trump lookalikes or not, well, lookalikes, but they wanted to be like Trump this course just goes back to Brexit and things like that.

[00:19:28]Pat BagleyI love how Taylor's, um, these details that he throws in there, and they're just lovely. For instance, look at the buttons on Trump's sleeve. you can almost reach out and touch them.

[00:19:37]Taylor JonesHe always has four.

[00:19:38]Daryl CagleReally, it's always four.

[00:19:39]Dave WhamondI never noticed that.

[00:19:40]Taylor JonesHe wears expensive blazers.

[00:19:42]Daryl Cagle

[00:19:42]Daryl CagleI like the lips on Boris nose. It looks very intimate.

[00:19:46]Daryl CagleThat was my point.

[00:19:47]Daryl CagleThe lick. And here you've got, uh, Doggy Pence. There are actually quite a few, uh, Doggy Pence cartoons because Pence was so toady.

[00:19:57]Taylor JonesYeah, a true lapdog. Yeah.

[00:19:59]Daryl CagleThis is lovely. I like the Nazi Eric.

[00:20:01]Taylor JonesI'm trying to think of, um, I don't know if it's Purdue university in Indiana was a white bulldog.

[00:20:07]Taylor JonesAnd, and that's what gave me, I guess that's

[00:20:09]Daryl CagleOh, University of Georgia. Well, there's that too.

[00:20:11]Bob EnglehartYale has a, Yale's a bulldog too.

[00:20:14]Taylor JonesMaybe it's, yeah, okay, I, I, but that, that, he just struck me, he struck me as the mascot, uh, the bulldog mascot for apparently any number of universities.

[00:20:23]Bob EnglehartYeah. It works. It works.

[00:20:25]Taylor JonesThank you.

[00:20:26]Daryl CagleYeah, the the Bulldog for University of Georgia is just a wonderful cartoonist thing because you know, they've had Jack Davis, you know, just going to mention their, their Bulldog for what decades and decades. Maybe that's, it's just the most wonderful art of any of the college mascots.

[00:20:41]Taylor JonesUGA. That's the name of the dog? UGA. UGA. University of Georgia. UGA.

[00:20:46]Daryl CagleBack to the cartoon.

[00:20:48]Pat BagleySomething I wanted to point out here. So, uh, the Utah legislature recently banned DEI offices in universities, which is

[00:20:56]Daryl CagleExplain DEI.

[00:20:56]Pat BagleyDiversity, Equity,

[00:20:58]Pat BagleyInclusion, right?

[00:20:59]Daryl CagleDiversity, Equity, Inclusion.

[00:21:02]Pat BagleyOkay, it actually means Don Jr., Eric, and Ivanka.

[00:21:06]Pat BagleyThat's a true DEI.

[00:21:08]Dave WhamondYeah, let's get some conspiracy theories going here.

[00:21:10]Taylor JonesThat's the germ of a cartoon right there. Republican DEI.

[00:21:16]Daryl CaglePat, I thought this cartoon was great. I love the body language on the Nazi dog. Nazi dog is just great.

[00:21:23]Daryl CagleThe foaming at the mouth is great. The red eyes are great. Trump holding the meat is great. the little, pussy hat lady is great. This is just, I just love the drawing of this one.

[00:21:35]Pat BagleyOh, thank you. I'm kind of proud of this one, but I was just thinking the other day, what happened to all those pink pussy hats?

[00:21:40]Pat BagleyYeah.

[00:21:41]Dave WhamondYeah. It was kind of a thing of the past.

[00:21:43]Taylor JonesThey'll be back..

[00:21:44]Pat BagleyHuge, uh, rallies coming out against Trump's fascism, which is what it is.

[00:21:51]Taylor JonesI'll make one prediction for next year. If Trump is back in office, I think it's going to be, if that happens, if that happens, it's going to be four years. Of nonstop civil unrest and of course, that's going to egg Trump on because he's going to want to use the army to, try to stop the protest, but I think among other things, you'll see the pink hats back.

[00:22:12]Taylor JonesYeah,

[00:22:13]Daryl CagleI think they're still kind of around. My wife was knitting. These hats for a long time for my daughter and for friends and things it was they were passing around the the plans for making your pussy hats and It was such a big thing

[00:22:29]Taylor Jonesagain. I like the lips here Pat.

[00:22:31]Dave WhamondMm hmm

[00:22:32]Pat BagleyOh, thank you.

[00:22:33]Dave WhamondAnd that dog is terrific like I love the big graphic shape dogs are always a struggle to get the anatomy right with a legs for me But yeah, you just nailed it there

[00:22:41]Pat BagleyWell,

[00:22:41]Pat Bagleythank you.

[00:22:42]Pat BagleyThank you.

[00:22:43]Daryl CagleThis is one of my all time favorites of yours, Pat. You've got the MAGA dog drinking out of the Fox News toilet. Um, I think sometime I'm going to do a podcast just on Trump and toilets. Um, that should be a good one for us. I'll put this cartoon back in. This is wonderful. Tell us about your cartoon.

[00:23:03]Pat BagleyI put this out there and people say, no, no, no, no, no. But I think you can trace the fall of the American system back to the establishment of Fox News, which was started in 1996. And since then you've seen a rapid fall off in trust in the institutions that make us a nation. The institutions like the courts, Congress, the presidency.

[00:23:22]Pat BagleyPeople don't trust anything anymore, and it's didn't start with Fox News, but Fox News accelerated it.

[00:23:27]Taylor JonesPat, can I ask you, now, of course, you did this for the Salt Lake Tribune, and you, you mentioned about the conservatism of Utah, the certain Utah legislature. I guess, Salt Lake City is something of a democratic city, isn't it, in in the midst of it all?

[00:23:39]Taylor Jonesbecause, this is not a conservative cartoon and, none of your cartoons are conservative as far as I can tell. And does the Salt Lake City Tribune have, like, lots of enemies? People, they, they read it, but they hate it because of a political stance it takes.

[00:23:51]Pat BagleyOh yeah, there's a lot of hate reading going on here. Um, the Salt Lake Tribune was established 150 years ago to be a counterweight to the LDS church. And it's maintained that position ever since. And it's not anti Mormon. But Mormons don't like to be reported on. And all that we do is report about, things that are happening in Utah.

[00:24:10]Pat Bagleyfor instance, an example, if you go to the Tribune website, there's a category called polygamy and you can hit on that. There's nowhere else in the world that you can find a newspaper that, deals with polygamy and it's got its own section. but the Salt Lake Tribune has always had this special place in Utah to be the dissenting voice.

[00:24:25]Pat BagleyAnd it's been important. It's, it's important to the culture here.

[00:24:28]Pat Bagleymy grandfather used to take the Deseret News and the Salt Lake Tribune. And so I asked him, why do you take both newspapers? And the Deseret News was owned by the church, still is owned by the church. And he said, well, I take the Deseret News to see what the church is saying about a subject, and I take the Salt Lake Tribune to find out what's really going on.

[00:24:43]Taylor JonesThat's great, On your cartoon, I love the, sketchy back paws. That's just perfect. They're kind of turned in a little bit toward each other and and also the little swirl, the little on the base of the toilet there. Which every toilet has.

[00:24:57]Daryl CagleVery good. Bob, here you've got dog whistle blower Trump and he's blowing make America great again the inner city is hell, good people on both sides, all lives matter. Send her back that wonderful bald spot on his head and looks great.

[00:25:15]Bob EnglehartI mean, I'm, I'm sure I will get, get back in the groove, but, uh, I'm just getting tired of Trump in general.

[00:25:21]Pat BagleyWell, hopefully the rest of the country feels that way.

[00:25:23]Bob EnglehartI'm very confident that, and you can put, - and you heard it here first, Trump will lose. He will lose big time and the Democrats will win.

[00:25:31]Dave WhamondYeah, there are those who say might even not be the nominee still like it might not be like it's written in stone, but a lot of people think, with everything going on, he may not, uh, make it

[00:25:42]Taylor Joneswell, most presidential election years have had some serious surprises and it's early yet.

[00:25:46]Bob EnglehartYeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:48]Daryl CagleSo Bob, explain this one to us. You've got a dog. Dog has no label on him. So it's just a real dog and the dog is chewing on a trump bone.

[00:25:58]Bob EnglehartI have no idea what it means. I just like the

[00:26:03]Bob Englehartdrawing.

[00:26:03]Daryl CagleYou could have put a label on him and it could have meant all kinds of things. I

[00:26:07]Bob Englehartcould put anything on him.

[00:26:08]Bob EnglehartCould put a Nazi swastika on it. I don't know. Anything works. I have no idea what it means.

[00:26:15]Bob EnglehartIf you have an idea of what it means, let me know.

[00:26:18]Daryl CagleI remember this wonderful thing from the Simpsons where they had, I think it was a blimp or something, and it said, Fox News, not racist, but Number one among racists. I thought that was hilarious. And that, you know, that works for Nazis too. yeah, that could be a Nazi dog chewing on his, comfort food.

[00:26:35]Taylor JonesPardon the sunglasses, but, the glare from the ring light, Since I'm not allowed to have the light, the ceiling light on, it gets too much after a while. Well, your

[00:26:42]Daryl Cagleglasses make you look like a cross eyed, googly eyed character.

[00:26:45]Dave WhamondYeah,

[00:26:48]Daryl Caglethat's not an improvement.

[00:26:51]Daryl CagleDave, tell us about your dog whistle cartoon. you got a dog whistle with a tweet and a really blowing out the racist tweets.

[00:26:59]Dave WhamondYeah, I think that this started with just the play on the trumpet, you know, and I was thinking I got to throw that in a cartoon somehow.

[00:27:06]Dave WhamondAnd then the dog whistle, someone was talking about a lot of what he says. Is a dog whistle and so that just kind of all came together and, to tell you the truth, I don't remember doing this one either. So yeah,

[00:27:17]Daryl CagleI love it. For those who just listened on audio. Trump's lips are a big trumpet. Yeah, I should mention to that Studies have shown that people who listen to podcasts on YouTube, they turn on video.

[00:27:30]Daryl CagleThey don't listen to audio. They turn on the video and then they set their phone down and don't look at the video and just listen to it. So even the ones that are getting our video are probably not looking at your cartoon. So we must explain that his lips are a trumpet.

[00:27:45]Taylor JonesI love the rendering of the dog whistle here.

[00:27:47]Taylor JonesUh, also I'm wondering, Has anybody, any of you, ever used a dog whistle? Do you know anyone who's ever used a dog whistle? No, never have.

[00:27:54]Pat BagleyI did when I was a kid.

[00:27:56]Taylor JonesOh, you did? Okay.

[00:27:57]Pat BagleyLong time ago, yeah.

[00:27:58]Dave WhamondSo, you don't hear anything when you do, when you blow the dog whistle, right? Like, there's no sound at all?

[00:28:03]Pat BagleyNothing.

[00:28:03]Daryl CagleDoes it annoy the dog? Does it make him howl?

[00:28:05]Pat BagleyThey're not happy about it. They definitely hear it, but they don't howl, they just, What? What?

[00:28:10]Daryl CagleSo Dave, here's another nice one. Another Wagging the Dog cartoon, where you've got the Middle East, Turning around to bite Trump in the butt.

[00:28:18]Dave WhamondYeah. See, again, something must've been going on with Iran back then, cause he's wagging the Iran tail. And, uh, I guess you could use that right now, just replace, Trump.

[00:28:28]Dave WhamondBut, I like how he says he never had any problems. When, when he was in office, and I guess here's some evidence that something was happening because I remember thinking it's only like the way he's handling this situation, he's going to get nipped in the butt pretty quickly.

[00:28:42]Daryl CagleSo, maybe when he had, Suleimani assassinated,

[00:28:45]Dave Whamondyeah, it could have been.

[00:28:46]Dave WhamondYeah, I think that's what it probably was.

[00:28:48]Taylor JonesYeah, it seems to me Trump's foreign policy and military policy that nobody's going to do anything. Nobody's going to pull any, try to pull anything Putin or Xi Jinping, because they don't know how Trump will respond.

[00:28:59]Taylor JonesAnd, I suppose that works in a way, but it could also start World War III.

[00:29:03]Daryl CagleWell, it seems pretty clear that he's going to withdraw any support for Ukraine and be the Putin toady again.

[00:29:09]Taylor JonesWell, of course he likes to say that had he, been in the White House these past four years, Putin never would have invaded Ukraine.

[00:29:16]Taylor JonesAnd if that were the case, it's only because probably Putin would have had no idea how, how Trump was going to react and therefore better not do anything, you know? Uh, but again, I think that's a risky, pretty risky,

[00:29:25]Daryl CagleI don't think that works anymore, though, because he can pretty well be sure of how Trump would react.

[00:29:30]Taylor JonesTrue.

[00:29:31]Bob EnglehartI think, I think Putin knew exactly how to manipulate Trump and he was doing it. He was doing it.

[00:29:37]Dave WhamondI think that Putin thought that, if he waited for a second Trump term, then NATO would be gone and he'd have free reign. So I think that's what he, he miscalculated those. Yeah.

[00:29:46]Daryl CagleThat may yet happen.

[00:29:47]Dave WhamondYeah, true.

[00:29:48]Daryl CagleSo here's one of mine, and this is another What the Doggy Hears cartoon. The Republican master says, Don't vote for Trump! And What the Doggy Hears, vote for Trump. This was, of course, back at the beginning when, the party establishment was trying to steer everyone away from Trump with no success.

[00:30:06]Daryl Caglethat, that effort did not work, and of course, there's no effort that way now.

[00:30:11]Taylor JonesI like the two elephants here, Daryl.

[00:30:12]Daryl CagleOh, thank you.

[00:30:13]Dave WhamondYeah. And further to that point, I remember, Lindsey Graham had a tweet that everyone keeps bringing back now and says, if we, bring Trump in, we'll be destroyed and we'll deserve it.

[00:30:25]Dave WhamondAnd now he's,, he's kind of, completely changed his view. He's a, another Trump lapdog.

[00:30:32]Bob EnglehartWhen Trump was running, I think in 2015 or maybe it was after he was elected in 16, Lindsey Graham had a moment of honesty and he said, my party is bat poop crazy.

[00:30:42]Taylor Jonesknow,

[00:30:43]Bob Englehartit was a

[00:30:44]Daryl Caglemoment of honesty.

[00:30:45]Taylor JonesVery good. It doesn't

[00:30:47]Bob Engleharthave the same meaning. It has, it's

[00:30:50]Dave Whamondfunny, your bat poop. I like it.

[00:30:53]Taylor JonesLindsey Graham every now and then he'll say something quite truthful and sort of shockingly truthful about Trump and other stuff.

[00:30:59]Taylor JonesIt's almost like he's got some, he's got some truth serum, IV. And then once in a while, a little dose of this truth serum comes in and he'll suddenly speak the truth. And then he goes back to, his usual schtick.

[00:31:10]Bob EnglehartIt's like he deserves a pat on the back.

[00:31:12]Dave WhamondWell, even on January 6th happened, I think he was one of the people that said, that's it, I'm done.

[00:31:16]Dave WhamondWe got to get this guy out of here and never go back to Trump. And then next week he was back to, you know, praising Trump again. So I can't understand it.

[00:31:24]Daryl CagleHere's another one of my Trump and doggie with, Putin saying kick NATO again for me, Donald. And, uh, Trump has given the boot to the NATO doggie.

[00:31:34]Daryl CagleThat's good. You know, NATO may be, in trouble if Trump comes back and that is very scary. Good cartoon here. I like it. This one is from J. D. Crow and you've got Grinch Trump with, uh, doggie reindeer, Mitch McConnell saying nothing to impeach here. And he's sitting on his big Christmas, sled full of lies, abuse of power, obstruction. but. it's just the Trump as the Grinch with his posture that makes me laugh.

[00:32:03]Daryl CagleThis cartoon is all about posture, both Mitch and Trump, and it's not very often that a cartoon has posture that makes

[00:32:11]Daryl Cagleme laugh.

[00:32:12]Taylor JonesI like, too, the, tie that is also the leash that is also the cord around the bag of lies. Yeah, I didn't notice

[00:32:18]Dave Whamondthat. Yeah.

[00:32:19]Daryl CagleSo I thought this was a wonderful cartoon.

[00:32:22]Dave WhamondYeah, the whip is pretty funny too. I like how it just kind of echoes what's going on with the bags and the, and the sleds.

[00:32:28]Daryl Cagleyou look at a cartoon that's drawn this funny. Uh, you kind of forget the gag of the cartoon and just remember how funny the drawing is.

[00:32:36]Daryl CagleAnd this one is from our Monty Wolverton. He's drawing the dog whistler with an ambitious drawing of, The Republican convention filled with, dogs as delegates, I would not want to sit and draw this. And, you can see how he took a few little tricky steps at drawing a thousand dogs in the, crowd, but, a, very ambitious cartoon.

[00:32:57]Daryl CagleYou know, graphically, I think

[00:32:58]Taylor Jonesnotice,

[00:32:59]Pat Bagleynotice also that they're all white dogs.

[00:33:02]Taylor JonesYeah, right. Yes. and Monty's got some little graphic tricks here, which are really nice. Having that little space of black on my, on the bottom. Uh, that, you know, that, that kind of, that, that seems to help make it look kind of real in a way.

[00:33:18]Taylor JonesLike they're, they're all together, but there's a little, you know, little spaces and, it's

[00:33:21]Taylor Jonesgood.

[00:33:22]Daryl CagleIs there a statement being made with the, the musical note being backwards?

[00:33:26]Bob EnglehartNo.

[00:33:26]Daryl CagleHa ha! Ha ha!

[00:33:30]Bob EnglehartIt just means, it means Trump is dyslexic. Either Trump is dyslexic or Monty is.

[00:33:35]Pat BagleyWhite dogs matter maybe. I dunno.

[00:33:37]Taylor JonesHa

[00:33:38]Daryl CagleAll the white dogs is funny.

[00:33:39]Pat BagleyHere's the thing, he's one of the only

[00:33:42]Taylor Jonespresidents that's never had a

[00:33:44]Pat Bagleydog in the White House. He's not had a pet,

[00:33:46]Pat Bagleyright? Yes, that's true. When was the last time the president didn't have a dog.

[00:33:50]Taylor JonesThat's true, although I have to say, I'd rather have a president who doesn't really want pets, not have them, then there have been too many presidents, I think, that Clinton's come to mind, where you really wonder if they cared at all for either Buddy or Socks.

[00:34:03]Taylor JonesAnd, the Bushes love their, their dogs. Uh, they all have the same kind of dog. Um, it's a Scotty, isn't it? It wasn't that the Bush's dog? Oh, yeah.

[00:34:10]Dave WhamondYeah. I remember George Bush dropping one

[00:34:12]Dave Whamondof, one of the dogs once.

[00:34:14]Taylor JonesBack when Reagan was president, here's another person who had no.

[00:34:17]Taylor JonesBusiness having a pet and it was when Reagan and Gorbachev were meeting in Reykjavik for one of their conferences and Time Magazine, had a story about, the cover story about, the, conference.

[00:34:29]Taylor JonesAnd inside, they had full page pictures, one of, Reagan and his dog, and the other with Gorbachev and his beloved cat. And you could tell, that Reagan, couldn't care less, about the dog, and I'm not sure he even knew it was other than just a prop in the picture, whereas you could tell that, that Gorbachev really loved his cat, and in fact, that was the cat that later When, the Gorbachev's had to get out of Russia quickly as everything was falling.

[00:34:53]Taylor JonesI remember that they had to stop and go back and get their cat. That to get, so they bring their cat on the plane with them, but they, they, you know, they wouldn't leave until they had their cat. And, and I like it when, when, when a president, presidential family loves their pets. And I'd rather otherwise than not, not have them.

[00:35:08]Daryl CagleWe just had Biden with his biting dog Commander.

[00:35:11]Dave WhamondI was just going to mention that.

[00:35:12]Taylor JonesBut he loved big dogs. I think, you know, that's a different story, I guess Commander's under control back in Wilmington.

[00:35:19]Daryl CagleYou talk about Clinton not caring about his cat Socks, but boy was cat Socks in the cartoons during that time.

[00:35:26]Daryl CagleSocks the cat was just observing everything and commenting and all kinds of cartoons. I think probably the biggest presidential dog moment was, Lyndon Johnson lifting his dog by the ears, that just dominated editorial cartoons. It was a standard, thing for editorial cartoons, lifting by the ears.

[00:35:46]Daryl Cagledogs are a wonderful tradition in editorial cartoons.

[00:35:49]Taylor JonesJohnson couldn't care, care less about his dogs either. They were just, they were just, hounds, hunting hounds. and a lot of people in Texas have them on their, ranches or what have you. Often they aren't in the home, they just stay in a pen when they're not hunting.

[00:35:59]Taylor JonesAnd, of course FDR loved his little Scotty, Fala. That was another dog that was a, became sort of famous.

[00:36:06]Daryl CagleAnd Nixon loved Checkers.

[00:36:07]Taylor JonesEh, I don't think so. Or, or King, King Timmaho from the, when he was president.

[00:36:14]Daryl CagleWhat was this dog when he was president? King Timmaho. Oh, that's very impressive, Taylor.

[00:36:19]Dave WhamondNo kidding.

[00:36:20]Daryl CagleOkay. Gentlemen, that is the end of our dog podcast. Remember to subscribe to the Caglecast wherever you're watching or listening today. Go to Cagle.com/subscribe, you'll get our newsletter and you'll get an announcement of every new podcast and you'll get all kinds of wonderful cartoons and it costs nothing and what a deal. our Caglecast is available in both video and audio versions. It's on all of the platforms. It's on YouTube.com/@caglecast, it's on Caglecast.Com. It's on Apple podcasts and Spotify. So come and watch and look at all the cartoons. And gentlemen, I've just been delighted to have you today. Thank you.

[00:36:58]Dave WhamondThanks for having us. Thanks.

[00:36:59]Taylor JonesNice meeting you, Pat and Bob. Yeah, good to meet you guys.

[00:37:02]Bob EnglehartNice meeting you too.

[00:37:03]Dave WhamondGood to see you again.

[00:37:04]Dave WhamondGood to

[00:37:04]Daryl Caglesee you guys again too. Yes. Okay. I'll have you back for the next one. I in in coming weeks. I think we're gonna do Trump in the toilet because we can do a whole podcast on toilets. I'll be right there. Excellent.