TRUMP! Lock Him Up!

Transcript:

[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHi, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the CagleCast, where we're all about political cartoons, and today we have two brilliant cartoonists joining us. We've got Michael de Adder and Chris Weyant. Welcome, gentlemen. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having us. Okay, Michael, Here you've got Trump the dandelion spreading seeds of hate.

[00:00:18]Daryl CagleTell us about this one.

[00:00:19]Michael de Adderwell, this is one of my favorite cartoons from the year because I had never seen anything like it before. Before this now, not everything's been done. So you could probably go search and find something similar someplace, but I had never seen anything like this before.

[00:00:34]Daryl Caglethis is an optimistic cartoon because he's running out of seeds of hate.

[00:00:38]Daryl CagleYeah,

[00:00:39]Christopher Weyantthere's a lot more behind him.

[00:00:40]Michael de AdderI think I had just gone for a walk. I might have walked the dog and, uh, Kick some dandelions across the way there was a million over there and gave me this idea.

[00:00:51]Michael de AdderYeah, it's a great image. It's a very original image.

[00:00:53]Daryl CagleI'm still laughing at this one.

[00:00:55]Michael de AdderYeah

[00:00:55]Daryl Caglemmm ... Lunch as he presses the launch button. That's hilarious Oh, thanks.

[00:01:00]Daryl CagleYeah, I don't remember how this one came to being. I just remember wanting to do a launch cartoon and I thought it looked like lunch and that was it. That was probably it. It wasn't any more than that. Lunch.

[00:01:15]Daryl CagleI mean, it look at it. I wrote lunch and it looked like lunch.

[00:01:18]Speaker 4Was it around lunch? Like, is this observational humor between this, the dandelion? 15

[00:01:23]Michael de Adderminutes later, I was eating lunch. I'm doing, I'm having a drink. So if I was going to draw a cartoon now, they'd be drinking.

[00:01:31]Daryl CagleIt makes me hungry too. Do you embrace the small hands on Trump?

[00:01:35]Michael de AdderI do, but I don't always do it. I did here, I did reduce the size, but I should have almost reduced it even more.

[00:01:42]SpeakerI do notice that, it's a minority of your cartoons where you have a blue suit and a long tie.

[00:01:49]Michael de AdderYeah, yeah, that's pretty much how I draw Trump. Uh, bad posture, blue suit, red tie, white around the eyes like a raccoon, orange skin, and just completely messed up hair.

[00:02:00]Michael de AdderThat's pretty much Trump.

[00:02:01]Daryl CagleVery good.

[00:02:02]Michael de AdderEvery time.

[00:02:03]Daryl CagleI thought this one was very good. You got the long tie and blue suit here. The abortion issue chases him.

[00:02:09]Michael de AdderMy ties are getting longer. Although I've seen everybody's ties are getting longer. I've seen ties that could go around the planet.

[00:02:15]Michael de Adderyeah, I haven't seen quite that, but there was a tie last week And it just stretched forever. And I thought, no, I'll never go that far with the tie.

[00:02:24]Daryl CagleI noticed, too, that you are still drawing, caricatures of Trump that look like Trump would in a photo, rather than developing your own Trump character look.

[00:02:34]Michael de AdderWell, that is my style, though. I draw him like he looks like in a photo. Listen, I remember looking at a pile of cartoons and trying to figure this out like 20 years ago. And I always thought the cartoons that were the best captured, the emotion exactly, So I can draw you a Trump and it would look like my Trump, but I like.

[00:02:55]Michael de AdderFinding the right expression. The right expression for me is the cartoon. So I'm looking to draw the right expression on now. Sometimes I find it myself. but I always want to have the right angle. I want his hair to look like Trump's hair. I want his posture. It looks like Trump's posture.

[00:03:13]Michael de AdderAnd if I was drawing anybody else, Joe Biden, I want Joe Biden to look like Joe Biden, posture, face, expression, everything. So anyways, I know I get criticized for trying, striving to make it look as much realistic as possible. Well, I

[00:03:28]Daryl CagleYou get get criticized for that?

[00:03:29]Christopher WeyantYeah. I'm surprised.

[00:03:30]Christopher WeyantCause that is your style. I like that.

[00:03:32]Michael de AdderOne criticism I got going to the Washington Post. But I tried too hard to make them look like photographs.

[00:03:37]Christopher WeyantOh, yeah, no. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a really nice, I mean, every, every artist or, you know, at least all the decent artists have, have something that's really identifiable about their work, whether it's their writing or their art style, and with yours, I always like it because that's yours, and that's, you know, I know what I'm going to get, and, it does change over time because, Trump's changing and I've noticed yours, you know, holds up with it, but it's still far enough removed that there's a, it's stylistic.

[00:03:59]Michael de AdderIt's not, it's not, to me, it doesn't look like a photograph. It looks like a cartoon. That's right. Well, also

[00:04:06]Daryl Cagleyou do such elaborate cross hatching. it, it looks like you're working hard, but I don't get a sense that it looks like you're trying too hard or anything is overworked.

[00:04:15]Michael de AdderI don't even think about it at all.

[00:04:17]Michael de AdderEverybody else thinks about it too, or there's a certain few that think about it too much. I draw the way I want to draw and that's it. And it's a Canadian style to draw the person as realistic as you possibly can. Like you, you guys have McNally and you have Herblock and you worship the ground they walk on, but we have.

[00:04:35]Michael de AdderIn this country, it's Aislin, it's, Roy Peterson, it's, Bruce McKinnon. Like we draw, we strive for the caricature. The caricature is the cartoon for us and making it look.

[00:04:48]SpeakerYou just named three crosshatchy guys, do you think of Canada as more cross hatchy than Canada?

[00:04:53]Michael de AdderWe're a crosshatchy country.

[00:04:55]Michael de AdderListen, that's not it, there's, I could name five more, there's John Larter, crosshatcher, in Calgary. Uh, amazing caricaturists. and Serge Chapleau from Quebec. you know, that guy's had hand surgery. He's crossed out so

[00:05:09]Michael de Addermuch. I'm going to have hand surgery. I crosshatched out so much.

[00:05:13]Christopher WeyantAnd no one would say that about Kevin Kallaugher.

[00:05:15]Christopher WeyantThey don't criticize that. They love it. So, you know, he does great, great work.

[00:05:18]Michael de AdderIt's not very many people criticize. I'm talking a handful of

[00:05:22]Christopher Weyantgood. Okay. Let's get

[00:05:23]Michael de Adderpetty cartoonists.

[00:05:25]Michael de AdderI'm taking this one into a giant painting. I'm thinking of it.

[00:05:28]Daryl CagleThis is hilarious. He's pouring bleach for everyone. he encouraged people to drink bleach for their COVID. and you've done caricatures of each of these guys. This is, uh, a lot of work to do caricatures of all these guys.

[00:05:40]Christopher WeyantIt is.

[00:05:41]Michael de AdderThis was all day long.

[00:05:42]Christopher WeyantYeah.

[00:05:43]Michael de AdderThis was all day long and not taking a break. This is a carpal tunnel cartoon.

[00:05:48]Daryl CagleHa

[00:05:49]Daryl Cagleha.

[00:05:49]Christopher WeyantUnbelievable. Well, let me ask you, what pen are you working with here? Are you working with a quill? Are you, what are you doing here?

[00:05:54]Michael de AdderOh, this one's, this one's iPad. This one's on the iPad. So

[00:05:58]Michael de AdderI

[00:05:59]Michael de Adderblew, I just drew, you couldn't draw this in one day on the iPad.

[00:06:02]Michael de AdderThis is a two day drawing on paper.

[00:06:05]Daryl CagleWow.

[00:06:05]Michael de AdderAnyways, I just bought six by seven canvas. I'm going to paint this just to warm up painting. I'm going to paint this onto a canvas. I've decided.

[00:06:16]Christopher WeyantYeah.

[00:06:17]Michael de AdderIt won't look like this. It'll look like the paint. It'll look more painterly.

[00:06:20]Speaker 4I was going to say, there's another painting I've seen in a museum that's kind of similar.

[00:06:24]Michael de AdderOh yeah, yeah, this is, this is a rip off. I can't even, I can't even remember. Listen, at one time I could tell you who the artist was (Leonardo da Vinci). Uh, yeah, this is, this is like Renaissance period art. This is not, uh, this is Mike de Adder and the Renaissance.

[00:06:39]Christopher WeyantMichelangelo de Adder.

[00:06:40]Michael de AdderNo, it's not Michelangelo, but

[00:06:42]Daryl Cagleha ha ha Okay, Chris, here you have, Trump saying, I could be a three term president.

[00:06:47]Daryl CagleAnd the people behind him are saying, serving one term in a New York prison, one term in a Georgia prison, one term in federal prison. That's great.

[00:06:54]Christopher Weyantthis did not take me two days.

[00:06:56]Daryl Cagleha ha ha

[00:06:59]Daryl Caglelet me say that, We syndicate Chris Wyant's editorial cartoons around the world, and he's one of the most popular cartoonists in our group with newspaper editors, and he's done award winning children's books and is a regular New Yorker cartoonist, and he's a Harvard Nieman Fellow and an NCS Silver Reuben winner.

[00:07:16]Daryl CagleSo very good.

[00:07:17]Michael de AdderWow.

[00:07:17]Christopher WeyantLa

[00:07:17]Christopher Weyantdi da.

[00:07:18]Daryl CagleThat's a lot.

[00:07:19]Michael de AdderYeah, that is a lot. That's a lot of good stuff.

[00:07:21]Daryl CagleSo here you have this, Baltimore like, container ship of Trump breaking the bridge between red and blue America without even a scratch.

[00:07:29]Christopher Weyantmy neighbor, this is, uh, this is the only person I really appreciate this cartoon is my neighbor is a CEO of a shipping, container company that goes between Asia and Europe.

[00:07:38]Christopher WeyantAnd so he's like, thrilled at this cartoon. And can I get a print? It's like the only person that's going to notice this. Like, yes. I was like, how did I do with the graphics? Is it, is it, is it, you know, nautically solid?

[00:07:49]Daryl CagleWell, excellent cartoon.

[00:07:50]Christopher WeyantI mean, it made a neighbor happy.

[00:07:51]Daryl CagleHere you have, Trump, with, poor Liberty under the guillotine.

[00:07:54]Daryl CagleAnd he says, what's the big

[00:07:55]Daryl Cagledeal. I said, I'd only do this for a day.

[00:07:58]Christopher WeyantIt's a lot of red hats.

[00:07:59]Daryl Cagledo you get angry male when you, commit acts of violence against the statue of Liberty or the statue of justice?

[00:08:04]Christopher WeyantI don't. I mean, it's funny. That's it. You think that those would be the ones that, uh, that, that would get something. I just get ones where they feel that I've been, uh, and the most common thing is that the, the cartoons are biased and unfair and, uh, against Trump.

[00:08:18]Christopher WeyantAnd this is why, and then they get pretty nasty So it's not that they react to the violence. I think they were, especially in America where we're okay with violence it's just that they really think that I'm being unfair to the time. I've explained to him like what an editorial cartoonist does. And do you write opinion columnists?

[00:08:33]Christopher WeyantYou know, this is, we're not, we don't do balanced. That's not the idea here. It's we do fair by our perspective, by our opinion based in fact. and with a little bit of hyperbole and exaggeration visually. So, you know, they never write back except for,

[00:08:45]Daryl Cagleare you guys good about responding to, reader complaints like that?

[00:08:48]Daryl CagleBecause I burned out on that quite some time ago. I don't respond and I, I find the conversations kind of go nowhere because they just restate their point of view.

[00:08:57]Michael de AdderI get involved sometimes. I get on these kicks where I try to slam them cleverly and then I post them online.

[00:09:05]Michael de AdderYou know what I mean? but it takes a little bit of work to do that. And, I lose interest quick.

[00:09:10]Christopher WeyantYeah. Yeah. I I'll write back. It's in my emails me every once in a while. I usually don't do much of that because that, that, that sort of thing. But if I do things on social media, especially with Instagram, I'm not doing it for the, purpose of the individual I'm responding to, but for the audience who I do notice, read the comments and respond and connect to either what I'm saying, which is usually relatively fair.

[00:09:31]Christopher WeyantI used to be a little bit more snarky. but I felt like it was, you know, I don't do that until they get stupid. and then they like it's a never you don't get into an argument publicly with a cartoonist,

[00:09:40]Daryl Caglei'd say the the main email I get is just a short "Where are all the Biden cartoons?"

[00:09:46]Michael de AdderYeah Yeah, and now do Biden is what I that's what I hear most of now do Biden But they don't see the Biden here like on social media. Like What is the point of saying that when There's two, two social medias. There's the right and the left, and the two don't see each other's posts.

[00:10:04]Michael de AdderLike, so if I draw Trump, most people on the right see those because they're being shared for the reason of let's all attack this cartoonist for daring to do Trump and on the, other side of it, when they're angry, they see, you know, the Biden stuff anyways, I don't get it. I don't,

[00:10:20]Daryl CagleI asked you guys to send in Trump cartoons today, cause we've been doing more Trump themed podcasts because I have found that the readers want to look at Trump. Podcasts and they don't want to look at anything else and you look at the difference between one that shows Trump on a cover image and the other ones, the other ones just don't get traffic.

[00:10:38]Daryl CagleOur traffic comes from YouTube and from our own mailing list. Mainly, we pick up new readers on, on YouTube and they are almost all of them anti Trump and love these Trump podcasts and any other issue they don't care about.

[00:10:50]Christopher WeyantWell, it's, I mean, it's, it's a historic character in our, you know, for our times and they're concerned and my experience has changed in terms of political cartooning, the feedback that I get, which is now cartoons as therapy to, you know, where, uh, people are feeling incredibly frustrated and isolated and feeling the system is not working, which is on both sides of the fence.

[00:11:29]Christopher WeyantYou know, there's still others out there like us. There are other people who have the same ethics or morals or belief or Belief in government. So there's a difference. I didn't get that kind of thing before him.

[00:11:38]Daryl CagleI should add that, most editors are at conservative papers they're rural or suburban smaller papers predominate and they tend to be more Trumpy than the large urban papers but

[00:11:48]Daryl Caglethey print the same opinionless cartoons that the liberal editors do. so the conservative cartoonists don't get more reprints. Uh, by and large, it's crazy.

[00:11:58]Michael de AdderBecause editors these days don't want to ruffle feathers. I went into this business and in a time period where Editors want to ruffle feathers, or the editors that I worked with wanted to ruffle feathers.

[00:12:12]Michael de Adderthey might complain that they want conservative cartoons, but when they see the conservative cartoons, they go, We can't run that, we'll get too many complaints on the left. And, so they go back to the regular cartoons and pick something that's pretty in the middle.

[00:12:26]Christopher WeyantYeah, and I, and I think there's, I mean, there's also with most cartoonists and, and, and Michael, tell me if you go this way too, is like, I think most of us don't approach it as I'm a liberal cartoonist and I'm looking for a liberal issue.

[00:12:35]Christopher WeyantI look at the issues of the day and make an opinion about how I feel on that. If I decide that, yeah, you know, there's nothing. I have no problem making fun of Democrats or Biden or anyone else if I feel that they are offending in the greatest way, that day on that news item.

[00:12:48]Michael de AdderWell, I don't consider myself a liberal cartoonist.

[00:12:52]Michael de AdderI consider myself more in the centers. I don't really peg myself as anything. But I, but if I had to define myself, I put myself in the middle and nobody puts me in the middle, really, you know, like they tend to put me to the left and far left and I'm not, I'm just not that guy. If you actually look at my work, I do, Some work that's, would be considered conservative, you know, not a lot, mind you.

[00:13:18]Daryl CagleOther syndicates classify their artists as, liberal, conservative and moderate. And, The cartoonists don't like that. We started off doing it just because the other ones did, and the cartoonists objected. They really didn't like it, so we stopped it.

[00:13:31]Christopher WeyantYeah.

[00:13:31]Christopher WeyantI see this more, with conservative cartoonists, where there's not that many of them, and so when you see them, they will not take any shot at their leader. Sometimes they have to go through, backbends to try to not criticize you.

[00:13:42]Christopher WeyantLike that's the subject you're going to talk about today when we have this huge thing happening and you're going to pick this tiny little thing so you don't have to discuss what this president was doing. I find that To me, that drives me crazy professionally, like, because I didn't do that with Obama. I didn't do it with Biden that you don't, you don't, it doesn't matter.

[00:13:58]Christopher WeyantYou do the big issue of the day and you do the thing that they're politicians. You lampoon a politician.

[00:14:02]Michael de AdderIf you look at my, my Obama cartoons, you would think I, you know, I, I would, I tackled the issue of the day. As the issue of the day. I didn't feel like I was promoting Obama. Yes. I thought Obama was a pretty good president, but I criticized him more than I flattered him for sure, because he was the president of the United States.

[00:14:22]Christopher WeyantThat's right.

[00:14:22]Michael de AdderTrump because he's anti democratic, he's anti democracy. So we're living in a, you know, we were living with a president who was undermining the entire system. That's far different than, uh, president, uh, Who's right or left, or a president that you disagree with, a lot like George W.

[00:14:43]Michael de AdderBush. I didn't go after George W. Bush like I did Trump, because George W. Bush, although I did go after George W. Bush, but George W. Bush wasn't undermining democracy. Anyways, go ahead.

[00:14:53]Daryl Caglewe do count these things, you know, the cartoons are keyworded and it's not hard for me to find how many Obama cartoons there are by.

[00:14:59]Michael de AdderI know you could, you could embarrass us.

[00:15:01]Daryl CagleDuring the Obama years, the liberal cartoonists were not drawing much Obama. And, it was just, it was true, you know, now the conservative ones, don't draw Trump, which is, outrageous since he dominates the news. But, on the other side, it was, the case too.

[00:15:14]Daryl Cagleand now we're not seeing very many Biden cartoons, but I think that's not entirely because the cartoonists are liberal, but also because Biden just isn't funny.

[00:15:22]Christopher WeyantWell, the problem with Biden is that he's a pretty middle of the road politician who's has a pretty good middle or solid middle of the road presidency, and there's not a whole lot there, but if you didn't have this.

[00:15:33]Christopher WeyantIt's massive cancer in the room. You could focus more on policy or foreign policy or Israel. There's a lot of things that you could focus on how he's handling, but that's not the story of the day. We have a former president who's, just convicted of 34 counts as a felon. that's the story I'd love to talk about, you know, the infrastructure bill, but not in face of that.

[00:15:51]Daryl CagleIt's true we don't have the passion for, for Biden. I don't like Biden. I never forgave him for Anita Hill and championing, Clarence Thomas. I, haven't liked him for decades,

[00:16:01]Christopher Weyantbut he's a pretty conservative Democrat. Yeah,

[00:16:04]Daryl Caglehe is very conservative. He opposed, uh, abortion for most of his career.

[00:16:07]Daryl CagleI don't like him. That said, it's hard to have any real passion about that compared to Trump.

[00:16:13]Christopher WeyantYeah. Yeah.

[00:16:14]Michael de AdderYou're looking at, Apocalypse Now compared to, On Golden Pond. You know what I mean? what do you want to draw? I mean, I'd rather draw about Apocalypse Now than, On Golden Pond.

[00:16:24]Christopher WeyantAlthough they both have loons.

[00:16:25]Daryl Caglethis is a great cartoon, Chris. welcome to Mar a Lago Sign, three days since the last incident. that's very good. I also think when you're soft and funny like this, you're more effective at being persuasive. You know, so many of the cartoons are name calling cartoons and, I like name calling cartoons.

[00:16:41]Daryl CagleThey're, they're gratifying to people that agree, but, softer and with humor, I think, has much more chance of, persuasion.

[00:16:47]Christopher WeyantYeah, I don't know. I like, I like a good hard hitting. I mean, I do cartoons for, obviously, for the, for the New Yorker, and, and we tend to be, they're more clever, and, and they can do certain things that they don't.

[00:16:56]Christopher WeyantTraditional political cartoons can't do. But at the same time, I love political cartoons, newspaper style, because they're just stronger, which I love. You know, they have a visual element to them that you can really, do something that's harder hitting, but maybe it's less popular, I don't know, or less effective.

[00:17:10]Daryl CagleSo you have the kids in science class as the eclipse is happening, and the teacher says, Who knows what's the name of the big event coming up that will cast America into darkness? And the little girl says, Trump's second term? I don't know.

[00:17:21]Michael de AdderOkay, I gotta admit this this one's this one's a great cartoon. I think

[00:17:25]Christopher WeyantThanks,

[00:17:26]Michael de Adderbecause because you don't expect the girl to say that

[00:17:30]Christopher WeyantThe I did get I did get hate mail on this and it was because I didn't draw a whiteboard I'm still drawing a goddamn chalkboard

[00:17:38]Christopher WeyantAnd I that one I wrote him back like I know there's not my head I've I have kids in school.

[00:17:42]Christopher WeyantI'm not drawing whiteboard. It's really boring to draw. It's a whiteboard , like I wanna draw chalkboard. It's like it's my classroom in my head and I have to control the universe my way.

[00:17:49]Michael de AdderDon't most classrooms have a chalkboard and a whiteboard?

[00:17:52]Christopher WeyantYeah. Yeah. That, that's, if that's your biggest issue with that, that's why I, I like those like here.

[00:17:57]Daryl CagleHere you have caught orange handed, Trump with his tie tying up the hands for January 6th.

[00:18:02]Michael de AdderThat tie doesn't have to be that big. Holding those small hands . it's true. I went a little far.

[00:18:07]Daryl CagleAlso, his hands aren't orange. You know, they're, they're pink. Like they're his ears. They're, he doesn't do his ears.

[00:18:12]Daryl CagleHe doesn't do the, under the ears. And often he doesn't get the bottom part of his neck.

[00:18:16]Christopher WeyantIt's true. I had to do it just for the, for the gag . Uh, I, I normally do him flush color. 'cause he does, we know where his, his, his real body.

[00:18:24]Michael de AdderAbsolutely. I knew why those hands were orange.

[00:18:26]Daryl CagleAnd here you have the Trump presidential library. you know, I did a podcast about Trump toilet cartoons and, I searched for. Toilet. And since then I've been finding all these Trump toilet cartoons where artists did not put the keyword toilet into their cartoon. so I never found it for that podcast.

[00:18:42]Daryl Caglevery frustrating for me.

[00:18:44]Michael de AdderWhen I was at the Washington Post, I wasn't allowed to draw the toilet.

[00:18:47]Daryl CagleDid they have a rule about no toilets?

[00:18:49]Michael de AdderAnd I, I actually got one in before the,

[00:18:51]Christopher Weyantdid you, did you go with it?

[00:18:53]Michael de AdderI had a rule when, I think this would be before new management, Took over because it was this was from Jo-Ann Armao, who was the editorial page editor, she didn't like toilets, and I think maybe, maybe Fred Hyatt didn't too, so.

[00:19:05]Christopher WeyantYeah, I haven't, I usually don't get a lot of luck drawing toilets. Editors don't like it. They don't like it.

[00:19:09]Michael de AdderYeah, I don't think newspapers really like the toilet thing.

[00:19:12]Daryl Caglewe have a list of things. I tell the cartoonists that editors don't like, like, Hitler and swastika and toilet and poop and bodily fluids.

[00:19:21]Daryl Caglebut we don't disallow any of that. And, I just noticed that when the cartoonists draw it anyway, because, you know, they follow their passion. They don't take my advice. those cartoons just don't get reprinted because the editors are consistent about that.

[00:19:33]Christopher WeyantThere was, was this one reprinted? I don't remember.

[00:19:36]Daryl CagleSo here's your Valentine's day cartoon with Trump admiring himself on the park bench and cupid says I've

[00:19:43]Daryl Cagletried everything but

[00:19:44]Daryl Caglehe's

[00:19:45]Daryl Cagleonly in love with himself That's very cute.

[00:19:48]Michael de AdderThis is a very good cartoon

[00:19:49]Christopher WeyantThis is, this is, this is well worn territory, guys,

[00:20:01]Christopher WeyantWell, you know, you get the, well, at least in terms of the, Cupid, I love a good, trope, you know, like, which is, you know, I'm nothing.

[00:20:08]Christopher WeyantI like better than desert Island cartoons and being

[00:20:10]Michael de AdderOh I love taking a

[00:20:11]Michael de Addertrope and

[00:20:12]Michael de Adderturning it into making it my own.

[00:20:15]Christopher WeyantYeah. One more, one more way. If you can make it, I don't know

[00:20:17]Christopher Weyanthow,

[00:20:18]Christopher Weyanthow originally I did this trope though, but

[00:20:19]Michael de AdderI get a kick out of when you

[00:20:21]Michael de Adderdo some trope and someone says I did that. I'm like, I did that.

[00:20:25]Michael de AdderEverybody did that. That's not the one. Did you do it in a new one? We did it in the last three or four weeks. When it's a trope. When not, not every cartoon. Just the, just the island type cartoons. Or Taxpayer being held up by his feet or something.

[00:20:41]Michael de AdderYeah.

[00:20:42]Christopher WeyantWell, it's, it's always the same thing for me. It's like, I love the trope.

[00:20:44]Christopher WeyantAs long as the artist, and I think it's a pretty clear line. As long as the artist is bringing something new. Right. If you can, it's to me, it's like, like jazz, right? If you can, can you do a standard and find a new way to do it? And just sounds like something new. Fantastic. You know, if you're doing the same one that we read a thousand times, Oh, like the statue of liberty.

[00:20:59]Christopher WeyantAnd she does, you know, it drives me crazy. Like, so

[00:21:01]Daryl CagleI get angry

[00:21:02]Daryl Cagleemail from aspiring cartoonists who see a cartoon on the site that is, a trope that we all know is a trope, but they don't know it. And they drew it and they sent me a copy of their cartoon and say, this cartoonist stole my cartoon.

[00:21:16]Daryl CagleThey're so angry.

[00:21:19]Michael de AdderI've gotten it from well established cartoonists, you know, like, it's just crazy sometimes.

[00:21:24]Daryl CagleI should add, too, you have the big upper lip on Trump. There's a tradition among cartoonists that when there's something interesting about somebody's face, you make it bigger. Often that's a nose here on Trump, of course, he's got an interesting upper lip.

[00:21:35]Daryl CagleA lot of cartoonists draw that as kissy lips or fish lips or circle lips. but, you know, it's, it's, uh, Is interesting and so you make it big and that makes cartoon sense and his hair is big and his belly is big And that's just what cartoonists do that's just an explainer.

[00:21:50]Michael de AdderYeah So how many cartoonists draw Trump with a donut for a month?

[00:21:55]Michael de Addermany

[00:21:56]Daryl CagleWell enough that you can do it and it's you know, it's a definitional Trump

[00:22:00]Michael de AdderI don't think he does look like he should have a donut. I just think that So many cartoonists do him with a donut mouth that the reader has gotten used to it. You know, I don't do it but we as cartoonists have made it a thing.

[00:22:12]Michael de AdderYeah,

[00:22:12]Michael de Adderits a lovely day, but it's all labeled unfair, and that is how he sees the world. You know, if you if he was standing back counting his blessings, rich and powerful and has a lovely, although simultaneously ugly, family, It's a lovely world for him.

[00:22:27]Christopher Weyanthe lives in a level of hell.

[00:22:28]Michael de AdderIt's kind of like, We're all a tiny bit angry that he seems to get away with everything, And that he's so rich, so privileged. he could have, A great life, but he chooses to see the world this way.

[00:22:42]Michael de AdderHe's actually has a miserable life We should take solace in the fact that he actually thinks that his life stinks but he can't be happy.

[00:22:50]Christopher WeyantNo, it's true. I I wrote somebody had written me on social media And I had written them back because they were talking about being unfair and how this this trial was unfair to him I said everything is rigged against him.

[00:23:00]Christopher WeyantHe is a victim of everything Everything is unfair and I said, why do you support someone who is So, uh, such a victim and so weak, like it's crazy if he's, if he's, everyone can take advantage of him. Why, why bother?

[00:23:14]Christopher WeyantHe has no power.

[00:23:15]Daryl CagleSo here, a young George Washington says, of course I didn't lie. It's not like I was trying to cover up an affair I had with a porn star. Very good.

[00:23:24]Michael de AdderYeah, it is good.

[00:23:25]Christopher WeyantThis is the problem when you, when you're having me on a podcast, I'm gonna look at all my work and it's okay. , you know, it's fun. It gets the point across. It's good. Good enough. Um, yeah. You know, it's, uh, it's a, it is what it is. It's a good, it's a, that's an okay cartoon.

[00:23:38]Christopher WeyantI don't put any cartoons on this podcast that I don't enjoy myself.

[00:23:42]Christopher WeyantOh, you might enjoy them. Yeah. Other people might enjoy them. I dunno how much I am .

[00:23:45]Daryl CagleSo here you have, Trump who is really being very successful in delaying all of these cases, and probably with those delays not having to suffer any consequences, in the hourglass plugging up, making greater delay with the judge saying, maybe I need to call a plumber.

[00:24:01]Daryl CagleIt's, it's very true.

[00:24:03]Christopher WeyantYeah. Now this cartoon, I liked a little better. It's, uh, again, it's a hourglass trope, but, but, it really feels to me this. Especially this is during his massive delays, the court cases when he was doing one delay after another and it was being successful.

[00:24:14]Michael de AdderSo did you originally think it needed a caption?

[00:24:17]Michael de AdderOr did you add the caption later because you know more people would get the cartoon?

[00:24:22]Daryl CagleYeah, you

[00:24:23]Daryl Cagleactually didn't need the judge in what he's doing at all.

[00:24:26]Michael de AdderBut I've added captions where I didn't need them because I know that it will lead to 20 percent more people getting it.

[00:24:32]Christopher WeyantYeah, I think with this one, it was, it felt like that when I think I did the original sketch that it was going to leave it.

[00:24:40]Christopher WeyantAnd even if I, if I cut off the side of it, as I look on the screen, it would hold there's something missing. I think, and it's energy, you know, like, it's and maybe the way I'm drawing it, perhaps, but it felt like it needed a commentary.

[00:24:51]Michael de AdderYeah, and I, I know, yeah. As a cartoonist, I read that caption as, It'll make it 20 percent better.

[00:24:59]Michael de AdderYeah.

[00:24:59]Michael de AdderOr more understandable. Yeah. More understandable.

[00:25:03]Daryl CagleYou know, the international cartoonists like to do cartoons with no words. And, they, they strive to that. Yeah. And, I always feel like if there's a chance I can do it with no words, I'd kind of like to go there, just because I think that's kind of a goal.

[00:25:16]Michael de AdderOh, I love no words. I'd like to do a book of no words. I tried, I try to do no words every day. But, but hardly any cartoon needs no words.

[00:25:27]Daryl CagleI would say that as we look at the stats from the cartoons, I don't notice wordless cartoons performing any better. Perhaps they perform worse. Um,

[00:25:38]Christopher Weyantyeah, I don't know.

[00:25:39]Daryl CagleSo Michael, here you've got Judge Mershon and Trump is doing his golf practice.

[00:25:45]Michael de AdderDidn't need a caption either.

[00:25:47]Daryl CagleIt really didn't. Judge Mershon says, keep this up president Trump and I'll hold you in contempt. excellent cartoon.

[00:25:52]Christopher WeyantYeah. So did you feel, did you draw this one and think, I just, I have to just add something?

[00:25:57]Michael de AdderNo, actually, although it looks like, uh, I could have, no, I had the caption. I started with the caption. But I could, but now looking at it, I could have removed it. Although, you know what,

[00:26:10]Christopher Weyantit's different. A little bit different

[00:26:11]Michael de AdderThis appeared in Halifax. It probably needed a caption for a US audience. it could have taken the caption out,

[00:26:16]Daryl Cagleso here you have the rushed event for Donald Trump. I think this was a January 6th hearings, cartoon.

[00:26:22]Michael de AdderNo,

[00:26:22]Michael de Adderthis was just yesterday.

[00:26:23]Michael de AdderOh, just yesterday. Um, you know, they are not running away from it. They are running towards it full steam. Just, uh, all the crazy arguments.

[00:26:32]Michael de AdderThey're rushing to defend Trump.

[00:26:34]Michael de AdderThey're not rushing, running away. They're running over, they're running over the flag to defend Donald Trump.

[00:26:40]Daryl CagleOf course. And I should have seen that. This is a good example of where I will edit myself out in order to look smarter.

[00:26:55]Michael de AdderIf I had, uh, because this didn't perform well on social media, and now I know why. Because it looks like they're running away. When you have steps and everything, it looks like you're running away. I should have done the flag up in the corner, them running towards a podium to, to defend Donald Trump. Now that I think about it.

[00:27:12]Michael de AdderSo there you go.

[00:27:13]Daryl Cagleyou know, kind of in the back of my head, I think running from left to right is away and running from right to left is to.

[00:27:21]Michael de AdderHey, do you, Hey, maybe that's the solution. Yeah, I didn't, I thought this was a good cartoon up until like three seconds ago.

[00:27:32]Michael de AdderWell, I

[00:27:32]Christopher WeyantWelcome to the podcast .

[00:27:36]Michael de AdderWe're live on a podcast only to discover that my cartoon

[00:27:41]Christopher Weyantright, right. Well see that's what you have to stand where I am. You know, like just go, ah, they're all kind of suck. Rush

[00:27:46]Christopher Weyantyour way up.

[00:27:48]Michael de AdderYou know what? My cartoons all kind of suck. That's the problem. .

[00:27:51]Daryl CagleOh, . Oh, that's,

[00:27:53]Daryl Cagleso here you have the GOP elephant afraid of the mouse, but the mouse's shadow is Donald Trump. And that's charming wordless cartoon.

[00:28:00]Christopher WeyantThat's right.

[00:28:01]Michael de AdderYeah. This is a wordless cartoon. This is, this is the, that is why I like this cartoon. Most of all. It is absolutely wordless.

[00:28:09]Christopher WeyantYeah. That's, that's, it's great, great composition.

[00:28:12]Michael de AdderI was gonna say that's why I also like the Last Supper one. It's also wordless. It just has everybody and the earlier Last Supper cartoon.

[00:28:19]Michael de AdderVery good. So King Charles in red with his notorious portrait and Donald Trump in orange with his notorious mugshot. Yeah.

[00:28:27]Michael de AdderI'm sure there were several of these, making the rounds now, but at the time it was right off the, this was the first cartoon I drew.

[00:28:35]Daryl CagleWhat did you think about King Charles's portrait?

[00:28:38]Michael de AdderI liked King Charles's portrait. I thought it was awesome, actually. I thought it was a great painting.

[00:28:44]Daryl CagleYou know, if it was an editorial cartoon, we would have all assumed it was blood and some kind of metaphor to British colonialism.

[00:28:51]Michael de AdderHey,

[00:28:53]Michael de Addermaybe it is British.

[00:28:54]Michael de AdderYeah, the artist did that. I tend to think the artist did that and maybe fooled King Charles. Which made it better for me, you know, you get away with painting a monarch all in red with just their head and hands, not

[00:29:07]Michael de Adderred.

[00:29:07]Christopher WeyantYeah,

[00:29:08]Christopher WeyantI thought it was like one of the best things that, that, that he's been able to do, to allow that to, to come to, you know, to and to view it is like, it's like, it looks like his own Netflix special.

[00:29:16]Christopher WeyantYeah

[00:29:17]Daryl CagleYou know if he'd have done green instead of red it would have been an allegory to his environmentalism and everybody would have said Meh, but

[00:29:25]Michael de AdderIt was green like the obama portrait where it's he's all in the grass or the leaves behind him I think that's a great painting too.

[00:29:33]Daryl CagleI love that painting

[00:29:34]Daryl CagleObama

[00:29:35]Michael de Adderreminded me of that painting, you know, and when you said green it's just Underlying it

[00:29:39]Daryl Caglebut there's no, uh, no controversy or interest if it's green You

[00:29:44]Michael de AdderYeah, trust me, the artist loves the fact that there's so much controversy over this.

[00:29:48]Michael de AdderThe artist is taking this right to the bank.

[00:29:51]Daryl CagleSo here you have Trump at the shooting gallery at the carnival collecting all the money as people are shooting at the press. And of course you don't win at any of these carnival games. I guess they can win mega hats.

[00:30:03]Christopher WeyantYeah, like the hats. Yeah, that's a really nice image.

[00:30:06]Christopher WeyantThat's great.

[00:30:07]Michael de AdderOh my God. I forgot. You know what? I forgot that I did the MAGA hat. I've looked at this cartoon so many times in the last three years and just, it just doesn't register. It's like looking at a Coca Cola logo. It does nothing for me because It always appears on my feed or whatever.

[00:30:22]Michael de AdderI forgot I did all those mega hats. That was, that was a, can I, can I give myself a compliment? That was a good idea. Compliment myself.

[00:30:31]Daryl CagleSo here you have the amazing Kreskin, the mentalist and the unbelievable Trump, the declassifier Yeah. Sure.

[00:30:37]Christopher WeyantPaul O'Kreskin. That's great.

[00:30:38]Michael de AdderThat's, that's actually one of my favorite caricatures of Trump, and I don't know why, but it just, I just liked it.

[00:30:44]Michael de AdderI just remember being, when I was drawing it. Anyways.

[00:30:48]Christopher WeyantIt's kind of a hard angle to go

[00:30:49]Christopher Weyantto. Yeah, yeah, there's really without his hands not blocking his face. There's like so much information.

[00:30:54]Daryl CagleWell his hands are so small.

[00:30:56]Michael de AdderThe

[00:30:58]Michael de Adderpaper, like my originals are all on

[00:31:00]Michael de Adderpaper. This size. I draw these things huge. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like the 24 by 18. That's a 24 by 18 drawing. That's too big. I'm stupid for doing it. I should be drawing little and I wouldn't spend so much time drawing.

[00:31:14]Daryl CagleYeah,

[00:31:15]Daryl Caglebut you just

[00:31:15]Daryl Cagleshowed us that you're backwards and we've been looking at the mirror image of you all this time.

[00:31:19]Michael de AdderOkay, there you go. I just switched

[00:31:22]Daryl CagleOh, very good. Okay. So now we have the actual correct, uh, not mirror image view if you like

[00:31:31]Michael de AdderOn the right

[00:31:32]Daryl CagleI have no idea if people are mirror image or not.

[00:31:35]Daryl CagleSo here you have, uh, Donald Trump, uh, at fairytale time, saying, saying to the kids, I also declassified this.

[00:31:43]Michael de AdderI, I, I have to admit, I, when I came up with this idea, I did laugh to myself, not that I laughed at my own cartoon. I mean, But you should. This is a hilarious, I couldn't drive fast enough. I was so excited for this.

[00:31:58]Daryl CagleIt's a little reminiscent to me of George W. Bush.

[00:32:02]Christopher WeyantYeah. On 9

[00:32:04]Christopher Weyant11.

[00:32:04]Michael de AdderAnd you know what? I, you know, like I said, I get most of my ideas through life. I think I watched something on 9 11 that had George W. Bush telling us something before this.

[00:32:14]Daryl CagleSo here, self reflection, Elon Musk is thinking, I was wrong to buy Twitter.

[00:32:19]Daryl CagleVladimir Putin thinking, I was wrong to invade Ukraine. And Donald Trump thinking, Melania was wrong about Dr. Oz.

[00:32:27]Daryl CagleThat's cute.

[00:32:27]Daryl CagleThat's good. Thanks. That's good.

[00:32:28]Michael de AdderI strive for cute every day.

[00:32:31]Christopher WeyantYou got the tie in there.

[00:32:33]Michael de AdderOh

[00:32:33]Michael de Adderyeah.

[00:32:33]Daryl CagleYou did. It's a tiny, tiny little hand in a pocket.

[00:32:37]Michael de AdderIt's almost too much that tie. It's almost like you didn't have to put the tie. It didn't have to have the tie in there.

[00:32:43]Christopher Weyanteyes. I really love watching like artist decisions.

[00:32:46]Christopher WeyantSo like, you know, cause we'd have to, you know, our, our point is to try and get you to move your eyes around the paper in certain way, right? We have to, we magically direct you without you knowing and make it so still seem like a cartoon. So I always like these, these little, little art directions, whether they're purposeful or not, but they serve a purpose.

[00:33:01]Daryl CagleUh, and you've got Trump drinking a Coke and Putin clearly drinking vodka. What does Elon Musk drinking?

[00:33:07]Michael de AdderI don't know. I didn't, I, I probably, it definitely, definitely, uh, that's vodka. I don't know what I'd have Elon Musk draw. I probably just made scotch. But I did get scotch too. I do, as I'm drawing, think about the drawing the entire time. I do think about. Uh, I'm not so sure, and I bet you I did look up quickly and realize that looking for a drink for Donald, for Elon Musk was, uh, gonna be too hard.

[00:33:34]Michael de AdderBut I probably did spend 15 minutes trying to look up what Elon Musk might be, might have drank, or what he drinks regularly. Cause I, I do like the, you know, I do like it when victim or the person I'm drawing sees a detail in it that they go, Whoa. So I probably did look up, one of these events he attended and look for a drink, but realizing very quickly that that was going to be an impossible task.

[00:33:59]Daryl CagleIt's macho and self confident cartoonists that don't put labels on their caricatures. And, I don't think I've ever seen you label a caricature, and that's very good.

[00:34:08]Michael de AdderI do label caricatures of people who, you won't readily know like a governor of a state or something, or a, a lesser known governor of state I might label, like, Tuberville or something, like a guy that the average person wouldn't recognize right away.

[00:34:23]Daryl CagleSo, here you have Trump as a baby, on a belly carrier from Putin giving a speech, and, he's, another version of the lapdog cartoon, it is scary.

[00:34:33]Michael de AdderYeah. this is one, this is the first cartoon I do this so long ago that I think this was the first cartoon where I finally nailed Trump.

[00:34:42]Michael de AdderI finally am happy with, how I'm depicting Trump.

[00:34:45]Christopher Weyantyeah,

[00:34:46]Christopher Weyantit's great.

[00:34:46]Michael de AdderHow

[00:34:46]Michael de Adderlong ago was, but it was, I remember thinking this is the best Trump I've done to that point.

[00:34:51]Christopher WeyantYeah, it really, it really looks like him. And then, you know. Stylized as well,

[00:34:55]Michael de Adderyeah, and I worked really hard to get Putin looking

[00:34:58]Christopher WeyantPutin's and Putin's tough actually He's the I find Putin harder than he looks, you think you got him.

[00:35:02]Michael de AdderThere's, there are some people that you would think would be easy to draw, but that have odd angles that you can't capture easily. And Putin's one of them to get them

[00:35:11]Michael de Adderto look

[00:35:11]Christopher WeyantThere's been no cartoonist convention of what a Putin caricature looks like. There's a huge range of different Putins.

[00:35:18]Michael de AdderWell, you have to draw more around now. It used to be that you do his Hickner, like big nose hook, And then you do a tiny mouth, but then the chin has to go so tight up, like almost no chin. But now, Putin's gained all the weight underneath his chin. You can't get a, if you want, he looks too young if you draw him the old way, so now you have to draw him slightly different.

[00:35:38]Michael de AdderAnd this was before, like since the war, he's gained 20 or 30 pounds.

[00:35:43]Michael de Adder, I find they're harder to draw at first. So at the beginning of their term, like Obama, let's talk about Obama. Like at the beginning, he was a young, youthful looking guy.

[00:35:52]Michael de AdderBy the end of it, he had bags under his eyes, grey hair. there was a premier of New Brunswick, Frank McKenna, who started off 45. I know I'm an obscure politician from Canada. He was hard to draw. I couldn't get him. But then as he got older, he became so easy. Bags under his eyes.

[00:36:08]Michael de AdderLike, his whole face looked like it was melting by the end.

[00:36:11]Michael de AdderThat's what politics does for you. Does to you.

[00:36:14]Christopher WeyantAnd there's also, you get, you know, like a good character caricature, I think also starts to bring, you know, you're not just trying to get the likeness, it's their personality. Like with Putin, there's all this, it's who he is and how he ca you know, you got this posture right there.

[00:36:25]Christopher WeyantLike you, he carries himself. Um, you know, uh, same with, same with, uh, Trump. The, the, the various particular posture that he has is, and all of that, that comes into fruition of who we think of this person as. And then you bring that into their features. otherwise it's just a straight drawing.

[00:36:40]Michael de AdderYeah,

[00:36:40]Daryl CagleThis is a, field of the dead in Ukraine as Trump is calling Putin a genius.

[00:36:45]Michael de AdderYeah, I

[00:36:45]Michael de Adderwas drawing lots of, landscapes full of the dead at the, at the Washington Post. I don't think it went over very well.

[00:36:52]Daryl Caglefields of the dead, especially the oceans of blood that we often see, especially now with, the international conflict.

[00:36:59]Michael de AdderWar, I mean, we're in the process of two major conflicts and a whole bunch of blood. Other conflicts. I mean, it's hard not to draw dead people right now, you know? I mean, that's what war is. it's killing people.

[00:37:12]Christopher WeyantYeah, and you're trying to make an impact. I mean, you're trying to, say to the viewer, pay attention to this and it should be strong.

[00:37:18]Christopher WeyantI don't see why,

[00:37:19]Michael de AdderI mean, one of those standard cartoon scenarios is to have The politicians say something like this, totally delusional, in an absolute. apocalyptic wasteland, you know, of, death and destruction. I mean, that is cartooning 101. If that's not the number one means by which you come up with an idea, I don't know what is, but you know, like somebody wrote that there were only 26 or 28 ideas.

[00:37:42]Michael de AdderWasn't that, I can't remember who said that, but there were only a certain number of ideas. I tend to think that, you know, having a politician say something benign or totally delusional, while reality is falling down behind them is a standard idea, you know, a standard cartoon trope. I don't even know if that's a trope, but it's a way, a means by which you get to an idea, or get to

[00:38:04]Michael de Addersome type of trope.

[00:38:05]Daryl CagleWell, you know, cartoonists want to draw powerful cartoons, and I think we would all be more proud of a cartoon that made people cry than made people laugh. Um, That's tough and rare.

[00:38:16]Michael de Adderwhen I get a comment from a reader that this cartoon made them cry, that is the, I mean, depending on the cartoon, I mean, if you try to make them laugh and they say that, it's not so good.

[00:38:28]Michael de Adderbut when someone says I, I actually broke down after reading this cartoon, that is the ultimate compliment to me. Like, an emotional response. It might not be crying, but some emotional response that besides laughing, is more, means I've succeeded more than a giant laugh or a belly laugh.

[00:38:45]Daryl Caglehere is another death cartoon with Trump. Of course, do you mind if I play through with the famous photo of the two dead drowned refugees in Europe.

[00:38:55]Michael de AdderThe biggest complaint I got from this cartoon from people was that Trump would never ask if he, might play through. Like I got so many of those.

[00:39:04]Michael de AdderIt was like, so this cartoon went viral. Like nothing I ever saw before. I had, I think I had a hundred thousand shares within an hour. And many of them will, he was too polite.

[00:39:15]Daryl Caglethe hair is particularly funny here. Very often he does look like there's some kind of dead animal on top.

[00:39:22]Daryl CagleThis was the

[00:39:22]Daryl Cagleperiod where I had, I had his hair, that piece that I have so distinctly drawn, many of my trumps at this period, the hair was a separate thing. It looked like a hair piece. So that was just playing. And

[00:39:35]Daryl Caglewhat do you call this period?

[00:39:37]Michael de Adderthe hair piece period.

[00:39:38]Daryl Caglehere's sports washing. You've got a Trump on the green as.

[00:39:42]Daryl Caglethe Saudis who have bought professional golf are sweeping dead Khashoggi in the saw under the green.

[00:39:48]Michael de AdderA funny thing is I had just done a sweep something under the carpet not long before that, but this works so well as sweeping under the carpet that I had to do it again.

[00:39:58]Michael de AdderI try to not do the similar ideas. for years after I draw them, but this one worked so well as sweeping under the carpet, I had to do it. All the negative space is really great too.

[00:40:08]Daryl CagleSo, the donkey and the elephant sitting on the couch watching January 6th hearings. The donkey says, The public hearings into January 6th are riveting! And the elephant says,

[00:40:19]Daryl CagleLook! Hunter Biden's laptop!

[00:40:21]Michael de AdderCan I get you to read these cartoons to every reader?

[00:40:23]Michael de AdderTrump painting the, the targets on himself, the targets with the paint of Mar a Lago documents, January 6th and election interference. And he says,

[00:40:32]Michael de Adderso unfair! How dare they keep makin me a target!

[00:40:35]Michael de Addervery good. I was, I was disappointed I didn't get like a target sponsorship out of this,

[00:40:39]Daryl Caglewhy the hell don't cartoonists get sponsorships?

[00:40:42]Christopher WeyantBecause you can't control

[00:40:43]Christopher Weyantwhat we're going to

[00:40:43]Christopher Weyantsay.

[00:40:45]Christopher WeyantThat's why, I mean they do, we as New Yorker cartoonists, we get, we, we, we do a lot of ad work.

[00:40:49]Christopher WeyantNo one wants it from political cartoonists because it's, it's a, we, our whole point is that we're, We're out here to do and say stuff a little stronger. You never know what's gonna come up

[00:40:58]Daryl Cagleback in the fifties. Philip Morris used to sponsor the National Cartoonist Society, and you know, those were days when the cartoonists were all drawing cigarettes, smoking in their cartoons, and, the cartoonists were all, you know, they, they traditionally spoke cigars.

[00:41:12]Daryl Cagleand Philip Morris would throw big parties for the cartoonists.

[00:41:15]Christopher WeyantThey

[00:41:17]Christopher Weyantshould still do it.

[00:41:18]Daryl CagleThe gun companies too. They really need more, more love from the cartoon.

[00:41:22]Christopher WeyantYeah. Okay. I'll skip that.

[00:41:23]Daryl CagleSo here we've got, Trump holding his E. Jean Carroll, sexual abuse verdict label. And he says, I gulp, never seen this woman before in my life. And it is justice squeezing him. that's a satisfying cartoon for the moment.

[00:41:37]Christopher WeyantYeah, I think when I came out, when there was, we had, there's been a lot of them kind of in the same vein afterwards, but then nobody knows when you did it, so then it goes, it looks like you did it with everybody else.

[00:41:48]Christopher WeyantI have a question. Do you always stick

[00:41:50]Michael de Adderwith the three finger cartoon hand?

[00:41:52]Christopher WeyantI do. I love a good three finger.

[00:41:54]Christopher WeyantI think I would, Bugs Bunny.

[00:41:56]Michael de AdderOn close ups, I always do four fingers.

[00:41:59]Christopher Weyantyeah.

[00:41:59]Michael de AdderI don't always do three, but, I thought, I probably 50 50. I go through a period where I'm three fingers, because, only because. It depends how it looks.

[00:42:08]Christopher WeyantI'm like, the less lines I have, that's my goal, is to eventually get it down to There's three lines on a page and I'm done. And it's, and it said everything I, it looked like my sketch.

[00:42:17]Michael de AdderAnd my goal is to give myself carpal tunnel every day.

[00:42:21]Daryl Cagle,

[00:42:21]Daryl Caglehere you have, two beggars on the street. The poor guy says, Will work for food.

[00:42:25]Daryl CagleAnd Trump's sign says, Will do terrible things to America and play

[00:42:28]Daryl Caglethe victim for millions in campaign contributions. Please give suckers.

[00:42:33]Michael de AdderThat's a good cartoon. that's just a simple cartoon that seems obvious that isn't. That's a really good idea.

[00:42:40]Christopher WeyantOh, thanks.

[00:42:40]Daryl CagleVery nice.

[00:42:41]Christopher WeyantIt held up, which I love when they hold up.

[00:42:43]Christopher WeyantYeah.

[00:42:43]Christopher WeyantThat was done a while ago. And you're like, oh, it's still good. When you have one that like, oh, it's also sad. But, because things haven't changed for the better.

[00:42:50]Daryl CagleSo here we've got the orange wave, the angry elephant leaving Trump in the garbage can. Wonderful that Trump is defined by that wisp of hair and the tie. But this is like a cartoon that was wishful thinking for only a couple days.

[00:43:03]Christopher WeyantIt looked like it was going to be that way for

[00:43:05]Christopher Weyanta bit.

[00:43:05]Christopher WeyantThat one did not hold up. Sadly,

[00:43:07]Michael de Adderwhen what was this following?

[00:43:09]Christopher WeyantThis is this is right after the 22 election. we thought, yeah, they lost again and just thought, okay, everybody, you know, people are becoming more vocal and Republicans were become more vocal and he's just a loser and he's losing, you know, congressional campaigns and everyone he backs.

[00:43:21]Christopher WeyantHe loses.

[00:43:22]Michael de AdderYeah, it was a short period. It felt like 15 minutes.

[00:43:26]Christopher WeyantYeah, less until January.

[00:43:27]Daryl CagleHere's another wishful thinking cartoon with the grand old party in shambles from the wrecking ball. And, the sign says, coming soon, the Trump party donate. Donations welcome. And the GOP elephant says, sigh, I wish an elephant could forget.

[00:43:42]Daryl CagleBut, you know, They don't seem to show any, sadness or regret and they do seem to forget very freely.

[00:43:48]Christopher WeyantI think this is, this one was drawn, and which I sometimes will do, which is addressing the old party, which is still there and is not happy about the party that they have, that, what it's becoming, and they're being left behind.

[00:43:59]Christopher WeyantAnd they've lost control there's a lot of Republicans, where I live who do not subscribe to this particular Republican party.

[00:44:05]Daryl CagleBut they still vote Republican.

[00:44:07]Christopher WeyantYeah. Well, cause you're not going

[00:44:08]Christopher Weyantto, because it's become politics in the, in America is a sport, right? They fly flags, you root for them.

[00:44:13]Christopher WeyantYou don't change teams. it's not about what your platform or what your issues are. It's just, I chose this. I would never go to that side. And that's a really, you know, we have a lot of purples who are playing it both ways, but

[00:44:22]Michael de Adderthis is a rhino cartoon and I got that it's a rhino cartoon right off the bat.

[00:44:27]Daryl CagleAnd it's also our last cartoon.

[00:44:29]Christopher WeyantOkay. There you go.

[00:44:30]Daryl Caglegentlemen, it was very nice to have you.

[00:44:32]Michael de AdderWhat's the next one about cooking?

[00:44:34]Daryl CagleI think I'm going to do a bunch of Trumps in a row, so gentlemen, remember to like and subscribe to the Caglecast wherever you're watching it and join our mailing list at Cagle.com/subscribe. You will never miss out on a new Caglecast and you will also get to see the five most popular cartoons in America every day in your newsletter.

[00:44:55]Daryl CagleIt's very exciting. And, , it was very nice having you.

[00:44:59]Christopher WeyantThanks for having me on.

[00:45:00]Michael de AdderHaving us, it was a lot of fun.

[00:45:02]Michael de AdderOkay. Thanks a lot. That's the end.

[00:45:04]Michael de AdderGood talking to you. Bye. Bye.