TRUMP MUD ROMP and the best of Wexler and Jones

Transcript:

[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHi, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the CagleCast, where we're all about political cartoons, and I'm pleased to introduce, Taylor Jones and Ed Wexler, they're going to show you a bunch of great art along with, some, excellent Trump bashing cartoons because, We all have the passion for bashing the Trump.

[00:00:17]Daryl CagleEd Wexler was an Emmy nominated creative director at Disney television animation for 30 years.

[00:00:22]Daryl CagleHe was also a regular cartoonist and illustrator for US News and World Report. And he has drawn the covers for the Hollywood Reporter's Emmy and Academy Awards issues for many years. Ed, here's your felon.

[00:00:32]Ed WexlerFelon. yeah, it was fun, uh, creating this little alphabet.

[00:00:35]Ed WexlerThis little Trump alphabet.

[00:00:37]Daryl CagleHave you done the whole alphabet?

[00:00:38]Ed WexlerNo, but I, I'm only missing a handful of consonants.

[00:00:41]Daryl CagleMaybe you should just do the whole alphabet so you have the whole thing.

[00:00:45]Ed WexlerI more or less do. I more or less do. So I don't think, I don't think I have a G. And I don't think I have a W for example,

[00:00:51]Daryl Caglewell, you've got hush money.

[00:00:53]Ed WexlerYeah,

[00:00:53]Daryl Caglethis is looking good

[00:00:54]Ed Wexlerknow, I found there was a question of readability, when the words get too long It's hard to read it's hard to understand What what they're spelling out?

[00:01:02]Daryl CagleSo have you thought about doing? dirty words or symbols for like comicana bad words

[00:01:09]Ed WexlerNo, it didn't it did not occur to me to do that

[00:01:12]Taylor JonesEd, you've done a bunch of these and you've done, you've done them for some other figures too, correct?

[00:01:16]Taylor JonesOr is it just

[00:01:17]Ed Wexlerletters that spell things? I don't think so.

[00:01:20]Taylor JonesWell, does this date back, uh, I mean, how many would you say you've done of Trump as the alphabet man?

[00:01:25]Ed WexlerI remember there were four or five of them, Daryl.

[00:01:26]Taylor JonesDoes this date back to

[00:01:27]Daryl CagleWell, here you've got fraud.

[00:01:28]Ed WexlerYeah. I think that may have been the first one I did.

[00:01:31]Ed WexlerOne of the first

[00:01:32]Daryl CagleFraud was the first one?

[00:01:33]Ed WexlerIt could have been. I like the vile toxic liar. That's good. That's excellent.

[00:01:39]Ed WexlerThanks. You know, in my mind is very Push Pin. My influence, my early influences were Push Pin Studios.

[00:01:45]Daryl CagleHow is this, Pushpin Studios?

[00:01:47]Ed Wexlerhow is it my influence?

[00:01:48]Daryl CagleWell, how is that influence showing in this work? I, I'm I'm just,

[00:01:51]Ed Wexlerthe playfulness of the technology

[00:01:53]Daryl CaglePushpin Studios is, is what, Milton Glaser and,

[00:01:55]Ed WexlerSeymour Chwast

[00:01:57]Daryl CagleSeymour Chwast Yeah Who, who are also very far, far apart stylistically And there were some others, weren't there?

[00:02:04]Daryl CagleEd Sorel

[00:02:05]Daryl CagleYes

[00:02:06]Ed WexlerWas one of them

[00:02:06]Daryl CagleThose guys are absolutely different

[00:02:08]Ed WexlerYeah, they all went to Cooper, Cooper Union, where I went to school.

[00:02:11]Ed WexlerBut the thing, the thing I was, the reason I brought that up was because, uh, Chwast in particular was all about, uh, interesting typography. And I, was thinking of him when I started doing these.

[00:02:20]Daryl CagleSo the commonality is that they're, illustratory graphic designers.

[00:02:24]Ed WexlerYeah. Yeah.

[00:02:25]Taylor JonesYou know, Ed, when I see these, uh, your, your Trump alphabet, man, I always think back to Tommy Tune, uh, song and dance man from the 60s, and this was one of his staples because he was a very tall limber fellow, and he could, he was very good at creating, himself as various letters.

[00:02:41]Ed WexlerI didn't, I know who he is, but I didn't know that he did letters. I don't remember that.

[00:02:45]Daryl CagleWell, you do have Trump moving around and looking energetic.

[00:02:48]Ed WexlerYeah. Yeah, it's almost like looking at a little Trumpy dance.

[00:02:52]Daryl CagleYeah. Yeah.

[00:02:53]Ed Wexleryeah. But, you know, it was a little strange because he's all different scales, uh, to make these letters work.

[00:02:59]Ed WexlerYou know, like for example, look how big he would be, you know, for the, in the letter A, for, for example, you know, he's a giant.

[00:03:05]Daryl CagleYeah. It's almost like you could do a, uh, Jules Feiffer thing and he could be saying, I dance to the sun, I dance to the flowers like Jules Feiffer, and he spells out vile, toxic liar.

[00:03:14]Daryl CagleThat would be a funny cartoon.

[00:03:16]Ed WexlerThat would be a funny one. I did a, uh, a takeoff on him. This is several years ago already, but You're right.

[00:03:20]Ed WexlerMaybe that's worth thinking about.

[00:03:21]Taylor JonesYou

[00:03:22]Taylor Jonesever accidentally misspelled a Trump cartoon?

[00:03:24]Ed WexlerI'm, i'm no stranger to misspelling words in cartoons.

[00:03:26]Daryl CagleBoy misspellings are a curse on us that cartoonists are terrible spellers And I brag about not killing cartoons But if you count the misspellings I kill tons of cartoons every week.

[00:03:37]Daryl CagleI kill cartoons

[00:03:38]Ed WexlerMy first misspelling was um who was the guy that the, uh, Supreme Court, judge that likes beer, the one that likes beer Kavanaugh, I spelled his name C A K A V E N A U G H. And it was in the USA Today. Remember that one, Daryl?

[00:03:55]Daryl CagleI remember getting letters from editors about that because we didn't catch it.

[00:03:59]Ed WexlerYeah.

[00:03:59]Ed WexlerI was the spelling champion of my public school, when I was in the sixth grade.

[00:04:04]Ed WexlerSo there,

[00:04:04]Taylor Jonesme too. Well, not the whole

[00:04:06]Taylor Jonesschool. I'm not in, in, in my sixth grade class, we were both on Long Island and I was able to do it because I was the only one who could spell Khrushchev.

[00:04:13]Ed WexlerOh.

[00:04:14]Ed WexlerOh

[00:04:14]Daryl Caglemy goodness.

[00:04:14]Ed WexlerI won with the word colonel because I watched Hogan's Heroes, . And the, and the LeBeau used to say

[00:04:20]Ed Wexler"colonel" Hello, Colonel, and it told me how to spell the word.

[00:04:23]Daryl CagleVery good.

[00:04:24]Daryl CagleHey, this one is wonderful. This one, I expect, was after the E. Jean Carroll second verdict for, what, 80 some million dollars.

[00:04:32]Ed WexlerI think you're

[00:04:33]Ed Wexlerright. I think you're right.

[00:04:34]Daryl CagleAnd that's lovely. And I love The cartoon trope. we don't see that very often and you would think that we would.

[00:04:41]Ed WexlerYou mean the device of a barrel?

[00:04:42]Daryl CagleThe barrel defining that he's broke and he's unhappy about going broke. It's a very, depression era cartoon, and it's

[00:04:50]Daryl Caglewonderful.

[00:04:50]Taylor JonesYou could have a bunch of them in barrels. Giuliani in a barrel as well?

[00:04:53]Daryl CagleYeah, but With Trump, you know that he's so money focused and it's his big issue and, Giuliani is just kind of mentally ill.

[00:05:01]Ed WexlerI

[00:05:01]Ed Wexlerhaven't seen a lot of Giuliani recently.

[00:05:03]Daryl CagleI read about how much trouble they had serving him with a subpoena on the last court case. He's kind of hard to find, I think, purposefully so. I thought this one was wonderful. He's yelling, I did nothing wrong as he's falling off Trump Tower, of course.

[00:05:19]Ed WexlerI did nothing WROOOOOOONG

[00:05:20]Daryl CagleYeah, this is that WROOOOOOONG. That's wonderful. you know, he, said his apartment was so much bigger worth so much more than it actually was. And, I presume that's what this one is about as his, Trump Tower House of Cards collapses.

[00:05:33]Ed Wexlerthis was a fun one to do. It was a little tricky to have so many little shapes, lots of lines and stuff like that.

[00:05:39]Ed WexlerAnd still. be able to read what the heck's going on.

[00:05:41]Taylor JonesWell, you know, Ed, with your work, your animation past always, shines through.

[00:05:45]Ed WexlerThanks. I spent, I spent a long time doing that stuff, it helps, it helps, in staging and, action cartoons.

[00:05:51]Daryl CagleTaylor, we have come to you. I thought this was a lovely one. Taylor Jones is a brilliant caricaturist. He draws for the Hoover Digest at Stanford University. He was the staff cartoonist for many years for the El Nuevo Dia newspaper in Puerto Rico, and he drew for many years for U.

[00:06:06]Daryl CagleS. News and World Report magazine also, and he's won a ton of awards. Taylor, this is Trump looking at his 60 dollar Bible with,

[00:06:13]Taylor Joneshe's sleeping.

[00:06:14]Daryl CagleStormy Daniels and Cohen and, um, Hope Hicks. Right.

[00:06:18]Ed WexlerThat's a wonderful

[00:06:19]Ed WexlerHope Hicks.

[00:06:20]Taylor JonesThank you, Ed.

[00:06:20]Taylor JonesLove it.

[00:06:21]Daryl CagleIt is. Yeah,

[00:06:21]Ed Wexlerthe eyes are so good.

[00:06:21]Ed WexlerEisers

[00:06:22]Ed Wexlerwas so good.

[00:06:23]Taylor Jonesyou know, she turned out a little more difficult than I thought.

[00:06:25]Taylor JonesUm, only because she's got that very small nose. I, you know, I tell you, I would, I would like to see her without all the makeup. She could do tutorials, I suppose. TikTok tutorials on makeup applications, but I'd kind of like to see her without all the makeup.

[00:06:38]Daryl CagleI'm very impressed with her eyebrows.

[00:06:41]Daryl CagleI think those are kind of clownish. I mean, they are so heavy and so darkly drawn. It's like she does her eyebrows with a Sharpie.

[00:06:49]Ed WexlerTrump Sharpie.

[00:06:49]Taylor JonesHe's actually, Trump is asleep there on

[00:06:51]Taylor Joneshis Bible. You know, somebody pointed it out to me.

[00:06:54]Daryl CagleOh, I see. I see.

[00:06:59]Taylor JonesSomebody pointed out to me on Facebook, and I hadn't intended for this, but, you know, in the, in the, the Bible, they've got the little divider. And, of course, at least I remember Bibles growing up, they'd have them. They'd either be red or green, and, or black, and, and something so you could, keep your page.

[00:07:13]Taylor JonesAnd, when I posted that on Facebook, somebody, uh, commented that, oh, you, you know, that was a nice twist giving it a, making it a forked tongue. which hadn't been my intention, but, I said, well, thank, I, I appreciated that.

[00:07:25]Ed WexlerOh, oh, I

[00:07:26]Ed Wexlersee that now. I, the, the, the bookmark was a fault.

[00:07:29]Ed WexlerWhoa, that's a happy little accident.

[00:07:31]Daryl CagleSo I thought this one was a good one. This is, oh, Kanye West taking on his support of Trump.

[00:07:37]Ed WexlerYou know, that's interesting that you, you make him, you started doing, orangey reddish hair for Trump, because he's only started.

[00:07:44]Ed WexlerYou know, he's mostly white or light yellow, but he's been getting more into the oranges.

[00:07:50]Taylor JonesYeah, well recently

[00:07:52]Taylor Jonesthat seems to happen with people who dye. The dye just gets stronger and stronger

[00:07:56]Ed WexlerIt's hard to mix the color every time.

[00:07:58]Ed WexlerYeah

[00:07:59]Daryl CagleYou know, I I don't think he dyes his hair You know how old ladies make their hair blue and they do that because their hair is looking kind of orange Instead of being a nice clean gray Um, and uh, they want to they want to gray it down by adding the compliment.

[00:08:14]Daryl CagleI think Trump just has yellowy gray hair.

[00:08:17]Taylor JonesWell, Daryl, I think you're right there.

[00:08:18]Ed WexlerI think it's white.

[00:08:19]Taylor JonesWell, I thought that Gary Trudeau had a great way to describe Trump's hair, that it's a confection.

[00:08:24]Ed WexlerIt's like cotton

[00:08:26]Ed Wexlercandy.

[00:08:26]Ed WexlerCotton candy. Because you can't, you can't, if you see, when you see him on television, you can't see where the hair starts and stops, and where his skin starts.

[00:08:37]Ed WexlerAnd he used to, he used to dye his eyebrows dark. You know, the, Pictures of him and, um, Jeffrey, Epstein. There's this one picture where they're ogling young girls and he's got black eyebrows. Who dyes their eyebrows?

[00:08:51]Daryl CagleHere you've got Charlottesville. he says, This has been going on for a long, long time.

[00:08:56]Daryl CagleThat is just great. I love the hair.

[00:08:58]Taylor JonesI've forgotten that one, Daryl. Thanks for, uh, Resurrecting me.

[00:09:02]Daryl CagleThat's a great cartoon. And, The hair is just lovely.

[00:09:06]Taylor JonesWell, let's hear it for Tiki Torches.

[00:09:07]Ed WexlerTiki Torches, yeah, I'm seeing this.

[00:09:09]Daryl CagleHere you have Trump with, Stormy Daniels. She's singing, Happy lawsuit, Mr.

[00:09:16]Daryl CaglePresident. Happy lawsuit to you, like Marilyn Monroe. Unfortunately, I don't think newspapers printed this cartoon.

[00:09:25]Taylor JonesNo?

[00:09:25]Taylor JonesBloggers may have.

[00:09:28]Daryl CagleI thought this was a great one here. You got Biden family having picnic lunch and, Hunter Biden is just the stinky skunk at the picnic.

[00:09:37]Daryl CagleAnd that's so funny.

[00:09:38]Ed WexlerI love the liver spots. that's a good Kamala.

[00:09:41]Taylor JonesShe's fun to caricature, you

[00:09:44]Taylor Jonesknow, apparently, uh, back when she was, maybe, the, the, I guess the district attorney of San Francisco before she became attorney general of the state and, apparently Michelle Obama, was sort of remarked that, that her husband was, quite attracted to, Kamala.

[00:09:57]Taylor Jonesbut since then, you know, Kamala's sort of disappearing into her neck, if you've noticed.

[00:10:01]Ed WexlerOf all the people sitting at the table, The one that bothers me least is Hunter Biden, because I feel sorry for him.

[00:10:08]Ed WexlerI feel bad

[00:10:08]Ed Wexlerfor him too.

[00:10:09]Ed WexlerHe's a drug

[00:10:09]Ed Wexleraddict.

[00:10:10]Ed WexlerHe's a, he's a, a screw up.

[00:10:12]Ed WexlerThe stuff he's done has been stuff that he's suffered for and, he's an albatross around dad's neck and I think

[00:10:20]Ed Wexlerthat's just kind of sad.

[00:10:22]Taylor JonesWhat do you think of his paint, of his artwork, if you've seen some of his paintings?

[00:10:25]Daryl CagleYou know, he's not that bad.

[00:10:27]Daryl CagleI agree.

[00:10:27]Daryl Caglethat kind of surprised me because I would have expected some kind of George W. Bushy paintings that just make you cringe, but he's actually pretty

[00:10:34]Daryl Caglegood.

[00:10:34]Ed WexlerHow would you describe his paintings? I haven't seen any.

[00:10:38]Daryl CagleI think his paintings look like, uh, you're going to University of California and you're an art major and you got a good grade.

[00:10:47]Taylor JonesYeah, abstract expressionism, I guess. But they're, but, you know, they're, they're not bad. I, they're, uh, I saw in the New York Times the other day, they had an article about his, uh, gallerist. And, I mean, of course the prices are outrageous, but they really, you know, I, I think I would've, I would've stopped in the gallery if I'd been in Manhattan and taken a look.

[00:11:04]Daryl CagleSo, Trump crucified. This vicious persecution is a travesty of justice. Heck you nailed yourself up there. You're still clutching the hammer his top secret documents and you know I think he's just getting out of that. He's essentially won that case with his crooked judge.

[00:11:21]Ed WexlerI

[00:11:22]Ed Wexlerusually stay away from religious symbols in my cartoons Did you get letters from this one

[00:11:27]Ed Wexlerhate

[00:11:27]Ed Wexlermailing

[00:11:27]Ed Wexlerpersonally?

[00:11:28]Taylor JonesI don't know. I don't know where it appeared. Maybe it nobody, maybe nobody printed. I don't know.

[00:11:32]Daryl CagleThe crucifixions don't get printed much. I, I think everybody's done some, and I've never gotten really angry mail about crucifixions either.

[00:11:39]Daryl Cagleit's not something that drives people crazy.

[00:11:42]Ed WexlerIt's not, it's a bit surprising.

[00:11:44]Daryl CagleI thought this was lovely too. Here's Trump winning the Iowa caucuses that's great fun.

[00:11:48]Daryl Cagle

[00:11:48]Daryl CagleHere's Judge Cannon.

[00:11:50]Daryl CagleEd, this is very nice, and, she certainly is, quite the Trump proponent, and it looks like now the whole case is just gonna fade away, and, that is quite a victory for Trump. You know, we went into this thinking that, things were looking bad for Trump and actually things are not looking so bad

[00:12:05]Daryl Cagleand nobody's talking about him being a criminal, indicted criminal,

[00:12:09]Daryl CagleThe case that got him, to be the felon is just not something that we care too much about and, not something anybody else would have been prosecuted for.

[00:12:19]Taylor JonesEd, I love your Eileen Cannon. I think you've done at least two or three of them, haven't you?

[00:12:23]Ed WexlerI think I've

[00:12:24]Ed Wexlerdone

[00:12:24]Ed Wexlerthree.

[00:12:25]Taylor JonesShe's you just, you know, you've got that. That's

[00:12:27]Ed WexlerShe's only famous for one photograph.

[00:12:29]Ed WexlerExactly. And you've made the most of it. You've got the smile, right? And those little twinkly, very, very, you know, those, those irises are like black.

[00:12:38]Daryl CagleWell, she is just terrible.

[00:12:39]Daryl CagleBy the way, that's Trump's actual. Signature that I dropped in.

[00:12:43]Taylor JonesYeah, you do that. Well, too

[00:12:46]Daryl CagleI thought this was fun here. Don Jr. and Eric and Don says How should I know where the accountants get their numbers and Eric says i'm not a money guy. I pour concrete They're Twumpy Dumb and Twumpy Dumber. That's fun.

[00:12:59]Ed WexlerHe actually said that too

[00:13:00]Ed Wexlerconcrete.

[00:13:01]Daryl CagleThis is when they were both testifying in, in New York at his hush money trial. And, this

[00:13:07]Daryl Cagleis great.

[00:13:07]Ed WexlerAnother, another, uh, little, little Disneyism there.

[00:13:10]Daryl CagleThese are actual quotes, and of course, you know, one of the great things about being a cartoonist is you can make people say anything you want, but the downside of that is people don't really trust that what you're making them say is something that they actually said. It's nice if people can recognize that they actually said things like that, because that does give it more power.

[00:13:28]Daryl CagleBut I'm not quite sure how to do that.

[00:13:30]Ed WexlerI don't know, how about, uh, using some big, quotation marks?

[00:13:33]Daryl CagleMaybe put a little thing in the corner that says

[00:13:36]Ed WexlerActual verbatim.

[00:13:37]Daryl CagleActual quotes, maybe a little arrow. Actual quote. Uh

[00:13:42]Daryl CagleDidn't somebody do that in the National Yeah, I think it's been done. Stan Mack, Real Life Funnies.

[00:13:47]Daryl CagleHere, you've got Trump and Uncle Sam and he's saying, take two Tide Pods and call me in the morning.

[00:13:53]Daryl CagleThat's very funny. This is a COVID cartoon. I'm sure as he's been talking about people drinking bleach.

[00:13:58]Ed WexlerBoy, I was, I was full of attitude about Trump. That's one of the uglier Trumps I've ever drawn.

[00:14:04]Daryl CagleThere was, news at the time of, kids eating Tide Pods because they look like candy or they look like toys.

[00:14:12]Taylor JonesApologies for the sun having to put on the sunglasses, but the glare, it's starting to make, give me a eye ache. So

[00:14:18]Daryl Cagleit does make you look like a funny cartoon character.

[00:14:21]Ed WexlerHas those circles.

[00:14:22]Taylor JonesYeah. My pupils. I can do funny things.

[00:14:25]Taylor JonesOh, wow.

[00:14:26]Daryl CagleAnother cartoon thing with the screaming head popping out of the phone.

[00:14:29]Taylor JonesNow that, yeah, that's something that I think, I think an animator would think of, you know, certainly that's a great one, Ed. I'd never seen it.

[00:14:35]Ed WexlerThanks Taylor.

[00:14:36]Daryl CagleI think of, uh, of like, uh, Bullwinkle pulling the rabbit out of my hat.

[00:14:39]Ed WexlerYou know, I think I was thinking of that

[00:14:41]Ed Wexlertoo. yeah, he pulls him out of a top hat. Right.

[00:14:44]Daryl CagleYeah.

[00:14:45]Daryl CagleSo Taylor, this is one of the ones that you sent me as one of your favorites. I wonder if you could talk about this. What did you have in

[00:14:50]Daryl Caglemind here?

[00:14:51]Taylor JonesWell, this is some of the work I do for Hoover Digest. Now, Hoover Digest, which is the journal of the Hoover Institution, it's a conservative think tank.

[00:14:59]Taylor Jonesit's not always my politics, but, they're great people, great folks to work for. And I adore my editor been with, I've been doing work for them for, uh, 26 years now and, of course, you know, they, they, they take a conservative view, the Hoover Digest, the Hoover Institution, they don't, you know, they're not involved in evangelical stuff.

[00:15:16]Taylor JonesThey're not, they're not climate deniers. They're not, anything like that. but they, they always have a conservative or in foreign affairs, a neocon perspective on, events. And, this was simply, you know, with the, to me,

[00:15:27]Daryl Cagle

[00:15:27]Daryl CagleWell, you got the guy that's picking his pocket.

[00:15:30]Daryl CagleHe's white and he's kind of scruffy. Right. Picking the wallet out of the pocket of the Black Lives Matter protestors.

[00:15:37]Daryl CagleRight. Well, there's What is the point you're making here?

[00:15:39]Taylor Joneswell, the point, okay, the point is that, uh, leave it to the left to come up with stupid slogans. whereas, defund the police has got to be among the dumbest ever.

[00:15:48]Taylor JonesBecause, first of all, when anybody talks, when anybody who supports defunding the police, the first thing they say, well, it's not really defunding the police. They're just reallocating resources to different things that, maybe some of it to social work, et cetera, you know, but, at this, at the time, as you remember this was, like during the, the George Floyd murder.

[00:16:05]Taylor JonesAnd there were a lot, there were lots of demonstrations and some of them got violent. Fox pretty much blew it out all out of proportion by having it on, on the news constantly. But, I can take my glasses off. This is kind of silly, making a serious point like this, but, the point is that, you take too many cops off the street and this is what you get,

[00:16:23]Ed Wexleryou're stuck with the slogan.

[00:16:24]Daryl Caglewhy the character of the guy that's picking his pocket and what's the symbolism of picking his pocket?

[00:16:29]Taylor JonesWell, first of all, as you probably know, in political cartoons. And, television advertisements, the, the thieves are always white, you know, they're never black. And, uh, because you can't do that.

[00:16:39]Taylor JonesAnd so I did the typical thing. I sort of tried to make a joke out of that by having a, you know, uh, the white thief steal the wallet out of the, uh, maybe it's a cell phone, but it's a wallet or supposed to be out of the Black Lives Matter protester who happens to be African American. I don't know if you should read anything more to it than that.

[00:16:57]Taylor JonesThat's the best I can do, Daryl.

[00:17:00]Daryl CagleOkay, did that go along with the article and what the

[00:17:02]Daryl Caglearticle was saying?

[00:17:02]Taylor JonesYes, it did. My editor gives me a lot of leeway into how to approach things, for which I'm, eternally grateful. But still, I have to, come up with an illustration that does make the point that that the writer is trying to make.

[00:17:14]Ed WexlerThat's a similar gig to the, Washington Whispers that we both did.

[00:17:17]Taylor JonesRight, that you and I both did.

[00:17:19]Ed WexlerYeah, we both did.

[00:17:20]Daryl CagleSo here's another Hoover Digest one where you have the protester. There was a time when the protesters were throwing paint at paintings in museums. And I assume that this is at that time.

[00:17:30]Daryl CagleIt was during COVID. And she's painting a Hitler mustache on Columbus, who, uh, Columbus is, is no longer the heroic figure he was.

[00:17:39]Taylor JonesRight,

[00:17:39]Taylor Jonesexactly.

[00:17:39]Taylor JonesWell, he's, of course, he's still a hero on Staten Island where I used to live, the most Italian entity in the United States.

[00:17:45]Taylor JonesBut, this was, the Hoover Institution, they've, uh, well, contributors to the Digest. There've been a number of stories, about, political correctness and, and, wokeness, et cetera. And, I think I can speak for just about any political cartoonist.

[00:17:56]Taylor JonesWe hate wokeness as much as the people on Fox News hate it. And, we may agree with a lot of the politics and the ideology, but restraining what people can say and, and where they can say it, And, and it's also very, very touching . And

[00:18:10]Daryl Cagleyou

[00:18:10]Daryl Cagleknow, Taylor, we get complaints from cartoonists about other cartoonist cartoons all the time.

[00:18:15]Taylor Jonesreally well.

[00:18:16]Daryl CagleIt is something that cartoonists like to do as much as the readers,

[00:18:20]Taylor Joneshave, we got some cartoonists in your, in your stable who are big on, they're in favor of everything, you know, being woke.

[00:18:26]Daryl CagleThere are cartoonists who argue that we should drop other cartoonists because they don't like their points of view.

[00:18:32]Ed Wexlerwow,

[00:18:33]Taylor Jonesreally?

[00:18:33]Ed WexlerWow.

[00:18:34]Taylor JonesWow. Well, I know you have your conservative cartoonist section and you could run a lot of my Hoover Digest stuff with that.

[00:18:40]Daryl CagleSo here you go, Taylor. You've got the, the cave man and the cave lady and he is, doing some sexual harassment here. I guess sexual harassment is old as the cave men.

[00:18:51]Taylor JonesYeah, it's a lot older than that. I've got some, um, I've got some butterflies in my garden who are committing a sexual harassment all the time.

[00:18:58]Taylor JonesThere's a species of butterfly, that's Florida State Butterfly, the Zebra Longwing, and it's, you see it in the Gulf, along Gulf Coast states, but, these butterflies, the males, will gang up on the female, still in its chrysalis, it hasn't emerged from its chrysalis, so they will actually gang up on it, and sort of fight with each other, to be the first one to, get to her, Even before she completely exits her chrysalis as a butterfly.

[00:19:21]Daryl CagleIt's like a little Jeffrey Epstein estate.

[00:19:24]Taylor JonesExactly right. So, yes, sexual harassment is nothing new.

[00:19:27]Daryl Caglewhat was the point that you're making here?

[00:19:29]Taylor JonesExactly that.

[00:19:29]Daryl CagleIs that the point? That it's old, stuff?

[00:19:31]Taylor JonesTime immemorial.

[00:19:32]Daryl CagleI thought Dumb and Dumber was great, but you've got the Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels caricatures as the donkey and the elephant, and they look like both Jeff Daniels and Jim Carrey and the donkey and the elephant.

[00:19:45]Daryl CagleAnd that's really hard to do.

[00:19:47]Ed WexlerIt's

[00:19:47]Ed Wexlera beautiful drawing. Very. It's elegant.

[00:19:49]Taylor JonesWell, thank you much. You know, uh, Ed, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't always work, you know, sometimes you try it and it fails miserably, but thank you very much and, and, uh, you know, the thing is I did this, I think in 2014

[00:20:00]Daryl Cagleit says it's for Elvin and Don. Who are Elvin and Don?

[00:20:04]Taylor Jonesthere was a reason for that and I'd have to go back for that. There was, there was

[00:20:07]Taylor Jonesa reason.

[00:20:08]Daryl CagleHere are the Honeymooners. And you got Jackie Gleason wearing his MAGA hat and, Art Carney wearing his mask on his eyes. And the wife, Alice, wearing her mask and said, It's a COVID cartoon, but they are all quite in character with the way that they're wearing their accoutrement.

[00:20:24]Taylor JonesWell, of course, you know, the point having a blue mask for, Alice, and having, Ralph with his red MAGA hat, and, of course, Art Carney being an idiot. But,

[00:20:32]Daryl CagleBecause he's undecided.

[00:20:34]Taylor JonesThat's, that's true, too.

[00:20:36]Ed WexlerHe's just wearing his mask wrong. I said, okay.

[00:20:38]Daryl CagleAnother

[00:20:39]Daryl Cagleevergreen.

[00:20:39]Taylor JonesYeah. Well, I thank you.

[00:20:41]Taylor Jonesit's nice to do those now and then, but Ed, I'm sure you will agree that when you have to put masks of any kind on, and sometimes with hats, but definitely with masks of any kind on the characters, You're drawing, you kind of got to do the character first and then add the mask.

[00:20:54]Ed WexlerAbsolutely. I think I've only done it once with the Prince Charles, King Charles.

[00:20:58]Daryl CagleWell, that's a great cartoon.

[00:21:00]Taylor JonesThank you. I had fun with it.

[00:21:01]Ed WexlerAnd Jackie Gleason is not the easiest guy to draw. I, I had to do that once for how to design him as an animated character. And it was great because there's not that many photographs of him.

[00:21:12]Ed WexlerI found at the time anyway.

[00:21:14]Taylor JonesYou'd certainly be an expert on this sort of thing. But, for comedians who are really physical comedians and, and rubber face comedians, they can be, they can, you know, like Robin Williams, they can be hard to caricature, you know,

[00:21:24]Ed Wexlerfor sure.

[00:21:25]Taylor JonesAs opposed to someone like Jerry Seinfeld.

[00:21:27]Daryl CagleWell, you got Jim Carrey as a donkey.

[00:21:29]Ed WexlerThat's beautiful. Oh, I love this.

[00:21:32]Daryl CagleJoni Mitchell. Very nice. I should say that, I asked you guys to send me some of your, favorite caricature art and, these are just great. I enjoy this. You know, we do so much Trump bashing, it's nice to step back a little bit and realize that people draw other stuff.

[00:21:47]Ed WexlerThat's right.

[00:21:48]Taylor JonesYou know, Joni Mitchell's got a great face and she has these magnificent hands It was just fun to do. And, and I guess her most famous album was blue and, I thought of that, I think after I began the sketch

[00:21:59]Daryl Cagleyou were just

[00:21:59]Daryl Caglestarting with, she paints a picture with her music

[00:22:02]Daryl Cagleand then it became

[00:22:03]Daryl Cagleblue and that's great.

[00:22:04]Daryl CagleAnd here is Pope Benedict. And that is so true. He turned out to be such a, vile, uh, abusive cardinal hider, terrible.

[00:22:12]Daryl CagleWho is the cardinal on top?

[00:22:14]Taylor JonesIt's just a, it's just a, you know, that's always a problem in caricature. If you're, if you're caricature an editorial cartoon and you include a character that's not a particular person.

[00:22:23]Ed WexlerAnd he looks kind of specific.

[00:22:25]Taylor JonesYeah, sometimes it, gets up confusing people, but that's just, I just figured that, you know, it looks like a typical Cardinal to me.

[00:22:30]Ed WexlerWell, what's the bottom guy's name? Ratzenberg? Ratzenberger? .

[00:22:32]Taylor JonesWell, it was Pope Benedict, originally Cardinal Ratzenberger.

[00:22:36]Taylor JonesAnd you know, I have to say that I know he did actually apologize for, the sins of, uh, So many, priests, but as little and late as that was, I don't think Pope John Paul ever did.

[00:22:46]Daryl CagleI don't know that they acknowledged the, protecting the cardinals and the cover ups.

[00:22:52]Daryl CagleThey apologized for the actual abuse broadly. And not specifically.

[00:22:57]Taylor JonesWell, what can I say? I don't know this, the, the, the guy on the mortar board is supposed to be a, Cardinal, you know, just a priest, you know, idea was a priest.

[00:23:04]Ed WexlerHe's a

[00:23:05]Ed Wexlergreat character. The, the guy on top is a great character.

[00:23:07]Daryl CagleHe

[00:23:08]Daryl Cagleis.

[00:23:08]Ed WexlerHe looks like a great caricature of someone in particular.

[00:23:10]Daryl CagleWell, I think this is very good.

[00:23:12]Ed WexlerYeah.

[00:23:12]Daryl CagleDinosaur chasing another birdie dinosaur. And he says, bon appétit he says, GAW and we know that paleontologists theorized that Tyrannosaurus Rex was as smart as a baboon and could use tools. we don't have to always draw the current events in our editorial cartoons.

[00:23:29]Taylor JonesWell, right. Well, this was actually, I remember just listening to the radio, or either that or the science section of the New York Times, and there was a story about, some thought that, because the brain case of Tyrannosaurus Rex was pretty big, That they had pretty big brains for, a, dinosaur.

[00:23:44]Taylor JonesAnd, there was a thought that they could use tools and those that just gave me the thought, use their little tiny fore-arms.

[00:23:49]Daryl CagleVery good. And they speak French.

[00:23:50]Taylor JonesYes, they do.

[00:23:51]Daryl CagleHere you have a wonderful Zelinsky. I think this is great.

[00:23:54]Taylor JonesYou know, this turned out to be harder to do. Zelinsky's face is easy to caricature, But I did base that on a famous, it's one of the famous portraits of George Washington. And it's one that actually was pretty hard, to kind of morph, to make Zelinsky fit it, because Zelinsky is a very short man, and Washington was quite tall.

[00:24:12]Taylor Jonesand, Washington's uniform was, tapered, there's a very tapered cut to it. And to fit Zelensky into that so that it was believable was kind of difficult.

[00:24:20]Ed WexlerBecause Zelensky's kind of stocky, too.

[00:24:22]Taylor JonesYes, he's, he's,

[00:24:23]Ed Wexlerhe's the opposite of

[00:24:24]Ed WexlerGeorge Washington.

[00:24:25]Daryl CagleAnd he is very much like, like their George Washington.

[00:24:28]Taylor JonesExactly, yeah. I think so.

[00:24:30]Daryl CagleI think this is just brilliant. Crowd scene of all these past presidents and you have a story to tell about this. We remember the shoes being thrown at George Bush in the lower left when he was speaking in Iraq and that came to be what he was known for. But you didn't take that out and you put John Adams in there.

[00:24:49]Taylor JonesYes,

[00:24:50]Taylor Jonesthis was done for, I had kind of a, I've been with three syndicates before, the two before you were Tribune Media Services. I'm sorry, we're Los Angeles Times Syndicate, which I was with for 23 years, and then Tribune Media Services with eight years, and my time with Tribune Media Services was, to me, pretty unhappy.

[00:25:06]Daryl CagleWell, isn't it so much nicer to be with us?

[00:25:09]Taylor JonesAbsolutely, but you know, yes, I think so, but And I, of course, I was canned eventually by Tribune Media, but, I just didn't like dealing with them and, they, the Tribune had bought Los Angeles Times, and like so many mergers, they didn't care about the, you know, they were, they were going to do it their way, and they didn't, so they bought up everything from the Los Angeles Times syndicate, and from my point of view, they didn't care anything about it, so I kind of languished.

[00:25:30]Taylor JonesAnd, of course it was a, very much a time, the beginning of the era of newspapers contracting. So, yes, I drew the, I drew the original with the shoes and they made me take the shoes out.

[00:25:39]Taylor JonesTherefore, John Adams.

[00:25:40]Daryl CagleAnd the reason being that that was critical of George W. Bush?

[00:25:44]Taylor JonesThey, they decided they, well, they, it wasn't Bush per se.

[00:25:48]Taylor JonesThey decided they didn't want to have anything critical of any of the presidents. And I, understood that. Cause this was, published. Right around the time of, Obama's first inaugural.

[00:25:56]Ed WexlerI think this one could have been a cover of Time Magazine.

[00:25:59]Taylor JonesYeah, thank you. I appreciate that, Ed, what the Chicago Tribune did was they had a supplement.

[00:26:05]Taylor JonesOf course, you know, Obama was associated with Chicago and they had a supplement in the newspaper for the inauguration with all stuff about Obama and that was either on the front or on the back. I forget

[00:26:15]Daryl CagleWell, I think it's wonderful and I think it's just outrageous to ask you to take the shoes away from George W. Bush

[00:26:21]Ed WexlerA

[00:26:22]Ed Wexlerfun bit of business in there

[00:26:23]Ed WexlerIt is

[00:26:23]Ed Wexleron that.

[00:26:24]Taylor JonesYou, you

[00:26:24]Taylor Jonesbought that for me, didn't you, Daryl?,

[00:26:26]Daryl CagleI did. I have this one.,

[00:26:28]Daryl CagleSo Ed, we are back to you and here you are on the Hollywood Reporter with both the front and back

[00:26:34]Ed Wexlercover.

[00:26:35]Ed WexlerThis was my first cover for the Hollywood Reporter. Wow. I wasn't hired to do a cover. I was hired to make this an inside illustration, but they liked it.

[00:26:42]Daryl CagleSo this was a two page spread inside?

[00:26:44]Daryl CagleYeah.

[00:26:45]Ed Wexlerand, they wound up using it on the cover as well, but that wasn't the plan. And it led to a whole bunch of stuff.

[00:26:49]Daryl CagleThis is just wonderful.

[00:26:51]Taylor JonesEd, I wanted to ask you, I was looking at this when, when Daryl first presented this podcast to us, he had some of your, Hollywood Reporter scenes.

[00:26:58]Taylor JonesAnd first of all, I love the Kathy Bates up there. That's just, that's just great.

[00:27:01]Daryl CagleDid she do a

[00:27:02]Daryl Caglenude scene?

[00:27:03]Ed WexlerShe was naked in a movie. She was in a bathtub. That's how good this movie was.

[00:27:06]Taylor JonesBut I want, now I'm just going to make sure, uh, that's, , John C. Reilly up there in the, toward the, uh, Yeah, yeah, under the, Okay, John C.

[00:27:13]Taylor JonesReilly and, I love the Zeta Jones. Is that Polanski? I, uh, that's Polanski there in the, uh, uh,

[00:27:18]Ed Wexlerwhere's Polanski? Oh, yeah, on the right.

[00:27:20]Taylor JonesYeah,

[00:27:20]Taylor Jonesright, okay.

[00:27:21]Ed WexlerYeah, yeah,

[00:27:21]Ed Wexlerthat's him for sure, yeah.

[00:27:22]Taylor JonesYeah.

[00:27:24]Taylor JonesExcellent, excellent.

[00:27:25]Taylor JonesOh, one other. Is that Almod ovar by Rashida Jones?

[00:27:28]Ed WexlerYes.

[00:27:28]Taylor JonesOkay, great.

[00:27:29]Ed WexlerI had a good time.

[00:27:31]Daryl CagleOh, that's great. Here's another one. Is this front This is the alternative

[00:27:34]Daryl Caglecovers?

[00:27:35]Ed WexlerThese were inside the section covers. Two different years of the Academy Awards.

[00:27:39]Taylor JonesGreat. They're great.

[00:27:40]Ed WexlerAnd I remember, I remember some, they contacted Jon Stewart about using the image for something else, and he didn't okay it, so I don't think Jon Stewart cared for this, or either of these.

[00:27:50]Daryl CagleWhat a poor sport if he didn't care for this, because it's great. I should add that, it's not uncommon for editorial cartoonists to do other stuff, too, because it, isn't really a business plan to be an editorial cartoonist. There's got to be other stuff in the mix, and, your other stuff is

[00:28:05]Daryl Caglefantastic.

[00:28:06]Taylor JonesI love the rendering of, John sitting there as a thinker. The rendering of the, uh, the suit, every, the hands is just great.

[00:28:12]Ed WexlerThank you, I

[00:28:12]Ed Wexlerspent a lot of time figuring that one out.

[00:28:15]Daryl CagleHere

[00:28:16]Daryl Cagleis Kirk and Spock, Nemoy and Shatner. Those are great.

[00:28:21]Ed WexlerThanks. I think I did this for myself. I don't think it was published anywhere.

[00:28:24]Taylor JonesReally?

[00:28:25]Ed WexlerJust, I just did it because I wanted to do it.

[00:28:26]Daryl CagleWell, the world needs it, Ed.

[00:28:29]Ed WexlerYeah.

[00:28:29]Taylor Jonesyou can post,

[00:28:30]Taylor JonesYou can post this with Cagle because, I mean, somebody's going to, you know, Star Trek is such great fan, such great fans. And even though Nimoy is gone, Shatner apparently will never be gone.

[00:28:39]Taylor JonesAnd, somebody would publish it for sure. I, for some reason, you know,

[00:28:43]Daryl Caglethey would, somebody would want it. And it is amazing how William Shatner goes on and on, and he doesn't look as old as he is.

[00:28:50]Taylor JonesYeah, he's in his 90s.

[00:28:51]Ed WexlerHe's like 93 or 4, I mean, or 92 or 3, I should say.

[00:28:56]Ed WexlerHe's got all his marbles.

[00:28:57]Taylor JonesYep.

[00:28:57]Ed WexlerYeah.

[00:28:58]Taylor JonesGreat.

[00:28:58]Taylor JonesAnd he's never taken himself very seriously.

[00:29:00]Daryl CagleThis is great one, Ed.

[00:29:01]Ed WexlerThanks. Thanks. Part, the part that I like works the best here is the Sopranos with the lasagna in the front. I don't even remember some of these shows.

[00:29:09]Daryl CagleWell, let's look at it bigger because you got to look at it bigger.

[00:29:12]Ed WexlerAnd, uh, Larry David with his, uh, contemplating whether the glass is half empty or half full.

[00:29:18]Daryl CagleOh, I see. That's great.

[00:29:20]Taylor JonesYeah,

[00:29:20]Taylor Jonesthat is, that is. Great idea. Uh, Ed, not, not questioning the caricature, but I'm not certain who the, uh, The fellow behind Tony Soprano with

[00:29:29]Ed WexlerTony Shalhoub, I believe.

[00:29:30]Taylor JonesOh, yes, yes, indeed. Indeed.

[00:29:32]Ed WexlerReacting to the cigar smoke.

[00:29:34]Taylor JonesYeah. Right. Was this his Monk character?

[00:29:36]Ed WexlerYeah. Yeah.

[00:29:37]Taylor JonesYeah. OK.

[00:29:38]Ed WexlerHe won a few Emmys.

[00:29:39]Ed WexlerSo I think I did him a few times over the years.

[00:29:41]Taylor JonesHe's

[00:29:42]Taylor Jonesone of the great contemporary actors.

[00:29:43]Daryl CagleAnd here is another one.

[00:29:45]Daryl CagleThis was quite the client for you, Ed.

[00:29:47]Ed WexlerOh, they were a great client. And then one, one day they got a new editor who didn't think caricatures were funny on the covers.

[00:29:53]Taylor JonesWow.

[00:29:53]Ed WexlerThey just, they just stopped using me altogether.

[00:29:56]Daryl CagleWell, you were defining them and sometimes editors don't like to be defined except by what they choose.

[00:30:02]Ed WexlerI suppose. The thing with doing these was the limited amount of time, uh, when they announced the, nominees To when the artwork was due at the magazine. It was it was kind of limited. It's like two weeks I think.

[00:30:13]Taylor JonesWow.

[00:30:14]Daryl CagleDid you draw them all separately and

[00:30:15]Daryl Caglethen?

[00:30:15]Ed WexlerI drew them all separately in Photoshop.

[00:30:17]Ed WexlerYeah, but I was also working a full time job So I was like, I would do these all nighters.

[00:30:21]Taylor JonesWell, crowd scenes, they can be very tricky to choreograph, you know

[00:30:25]Taylor JonesYeah, yeah,

[00:30:26]Ed Wexlerand you just have to figure out a couple of bits of business And then kluge

[00:30:30]Ed Wexlerit all together somehow.

[00:30:31]Taylor JonesRight.

[00:30:31]Daryl CagleWell,

[00:30:31]Daryl Cagleit keys off of Johnny Depp up at the top and, on each one of these you have, a character that's kind of drawing your eye and then you pull away.

[00:30:41]Daryl CagleThat's really very nice.

[00:30:42]Daryl CagleAnother impressive one. Here with your Martin Scorsese stealing the show.

[00:30:48]Daryl CagleLeonardo

[00:30:49]Daryl CagleDiCaprio looks wonderful.

[00:30:51]Taylor JonesYeah. Yeah.

[00:30:51]Ed WexlerBig skull. Um, Don Cheadle.

[00:30:54]Taylor JonesDon Cheadle. They just, that's just perfect.

[00:30:56]Taylor JonesThat's you get the eyes are just perfect.

[00:30:58]Ed WexlerThanks. He, he broke down into, into symbols very, very easily.

[00:31:02]Taylor JonesYeah. Great.

[00:31:03]Daryl CagleThis one is equally great.

[00:31:04]Taylor JonesOh, wow. Great.

[00:31:05]Taylor JonesYeah. I want to tell a little story of the cowboy movies. What's the name of the cowboys on top?

[00:31:09]Daryl CagleThe gay cowboy movie.

[00:31:11]Taylor JonesBrokeback Mountain.

[00:31:13]Ed WexlerBrokeback Mountain, Yeah. So it's, the wife of one of the characters, suspecting that something was going on.

[00:31:18]Ed WexlerSo she's whacking him with the flowers. That's what, that's what that's supposed to be. I always, I always try to have fun with the logos and mastheads when I can.

[00:31:25]Taylor JonesWell, the Gyllenhaal and, again, I've suddenly forgotten the name of the other actor. they're perfect.

[00:31:29]Daryl CagleI drew a Brokeback Mountain cartoon a long time ago.

[00:31:33]Daryl CagleAnd it was one of my most popular cartoons ever to remember what it is. Maybe I'll drop it into here.

[00:31:38]Ed WexlerWhat was the joke?

[00:31:38]Daryl CagleI'm not remembering right now, but of course we will remember if I happen to drop it in in post.

[00:31:43]Daryl CagleFirst ladies.

[00:31:44]Taylor JonesOh, that's

[00:31:45]Taylor Joneswonderful. Yeah.

[00:31:46]Ed WexlerI think this was for US News. I think this was a Washington Whispers.

[00:31:50]Taylor JonesI think they were, let's see. First was on Washington Whispers. It was Kate Sally Palmer who has a job for like about 20 years.

[00:31:56]Daryl CagleBoth of you guys drew for U. S. News and World Report.

[00:31:58]Taylor JonesRight.

[00:31:59]Ed WexlerYeah.

[00:31:59]Taylor Jonesthat's a great Michelle. All of them are great. But, um, I, I, I,

[00:32:02]Ed WexlerAt different times, we worked for them.

[00:32:03]Taylor JonesI hadn't thought of that the way, the way you've got her mouth there with that underbite. That's just,

[00:32:07]Ed Wexlerthank you for, thank you for appreciating

[00:32:09]Ed Wexlerthat.

[00:32:09]Ed WexlerThat was a struggle.

[00:32:10]Taylor JonesYeah.

[00:32:10]Taylor JonesYeah. And, and, uh,

[00:32:11]Ed WexlerThe, Eleanor looks like, I'm complimenting myself, but it looks like one of your drawings to me.

[00:32:17]Taylor JonesAll right.

[00:32:17]Taylor JonesWell,

[00:32:18]Daryl CagleJohn

[00:32:19]Daryl CagleBoehner, they really did push him into a box

[00:32:22]Ed WexlerThey had him in a box.

[00:32:23]Taylor JonesI remember seeing this originally. That was a fun

[00:32:25]Ed WexlerI'm a little surprised you picked this one, but

[00:32:27]Daryl Cagleso tell us about

[00:32:28]Daryl Caglethis one.

[00:32:29]Ed WexlerYou know, I just. He's just a funny, this was not a paid job. This didn't appear anywhere. I just wanted to see him

[00:32:35]Daryl CagleWhat's his name again, Jeremy?.

[00:32:35]Ed WexlerRon

[00:32:36]Ed WexlerJeremy,

[00:32:37]Ed WexlerRon Jeremy, he's

[00:32:38]Ed Wexlera real sleazeball kind of a porn actor. You know, I really

[00:32:42]Daryl CagleYou captured the steaze. He,

[00:32:44]Taylor Joneseverything about

[00:32:44]Taylor Jonesthis is perfect. The, I mean the eyes, you know, it's a funny thing. It's almost like it almost looks Rembrandt in the way that, you know, Oh, kind of a thing in the face. But I love the, I love the reflection off his belly.

[00:32:57]Ed WexlerA little, a little

[00:33:01]Ed Wexlergreasy.

[00:33:02]Daryl CagleHe's such a foul, nasty character.

[00:33:04]Ed WexlerYou know, I sent this

[00:33:05]Ed Wexlerto him. I said, I don't know how I got his address, but I sent it to him and he, he just wrote back, thanks a lot.

[00:33:10]Taylor Jones

[00:33:11]Taylor JonesHow did you get his address?

[00:33:12]Ed WexlerI forgot how I got it. I don't know how I got it.

[00:33:14]Daryl CagleCrazy. And then he went to, uh, jail for what? Rape or sexual harassment or something?

[00:33:20]Ed WexlerYeah, I

[00:33:20]Ed Wexlerthink it was rape.

[00:33:21]Taylor JonesWell, you had fun with the chest

[00:33:22]Taylor Jonesand belly hair, that's for

[00:33:23]Taylor Jonessure.

[00:33:23]Ed WexlerI had fun with a lot of things in this one. And those are cheap apartment, window shades.

[00:33:29]Ed WexlerYou know, the cheapest kind you can get from Builder's Emporium.

[00:33:32]Daryl CagleWalt Disney,

[00:33:33]Ed Wexlerthis one made the rounds. this one has some history. I did it originally for Hollywood Reporter. It was, an issue that was dedicated to famous directors or studio ads. Something like that. I did the Warner brothers and this one, I wound up adding the copy. it all started with a mouse and I sold a bunch of prints that I was feeling.

[00:33:50]Ed WexlerThat was my entrepreneurial phase. I, sold a bunch of matted prints of this and that was a pain to do.

[00:33:56]Daryl CagleWhy was it a pain to do?

[00:33:58]Ed WexlerMatting them. I sold them in mats. So I had to get the mats cut and packaging them and wrapping them. that was the

[00:34:04]Ed Wexlerpain part.

[00:34:05]Taylor JonesI mean, being that you worked for Disney for so long, what kind of restrictions did you have on,

[00:34:09]Ed WexlerI didn't have any. I didn't have any. the first time I was asked to caricature a Disney person I was doing a lot of work for California Magazine and, they were doing an article about, uh, it was when Disney was starting Disneyland in Paris. And they were talking about that.

[00:34:22]Ed WexlerThey wanted me to caricature Michael Eisner. And I didn't think that was a good idea at the time. So I, I did an illustration of what I thought was a typical, erudite French guy selling souvenirs at Disneyland instead. I don't think I'd put in this batch for you, Daryl.

[00:34:37]Daryl CagleWell, I only have two more cartoons, but I picked out the most.

[00:34:39]Daryl Caglepopular cartoons that each of you has ever drawn in the many years that you've been with us. And, Taylor, this is yours. You've got, Barbie and Oppenheimer. Barbie says, So, Oppie, who's going to clean up at the box office this summer, you or Barbie? And Oppenheimer says, God help us. Your most popular cartoon ever.

[00:35:02]Daryl CagleAnd

[00:35:02]Daryl Caglein how many years? It's probably been

[00:35:04]Daryl Cagle20 years you've been with us.

[00:35:06]Taylor JonesWell, 15 with you. I didn't realize that until I was going through all the cartoons, back to the beginning. And, uh, well, gee, uh, well, you know, you can thank Barbie for that. Thanks to Barbie Madness, you know.

[00:35:19]Daryl CagleWell, congratulations.

[00:35:20]Daryl CagleThis is your, this is your top cartoon. And Ed, this is your top cartoon. It's a COVID cartoon. And, that looks like your self image with your wife.

[00:35:32]Ed WexlerHey,

[00:35:32]Ed Wexlerwatch it. Oh.

[00:35:34]Daryl CagleAnd she says, I didn't think it would all go away, that Social Security and Medicare.

[00:35:39]Ed WexlerThat one made the rounds.

[00:35:40]Taylor JonesWell, you know, of course, Social Security and given the average age of the people who are still reading newspapers,

[00:35:46]Daryl CagleI guess that explains it. Social Security and Medicare in a cartoon. That gets newspapers to print it.

[00:35:50]Ed WexlerAnd puppies, too.

[00:35:52]Taylor JonesYeah, well, right.

[00:35:53]Daryl CagleGentlemen, that is all of the cartoons we have today. We've got to do this again soon, because you sent me a lot more cartoons than that.

[00:36:00]Taylor JonesYeah, and I, I don't know about Ed, but I spent about 10 hours going through cartoons.

[00:36:04]Ed WexlerI spent a long time too. All the stuff that you want.

[00:36:07]Daryl CagleI have a

[00:36:07]Daryl Caglelot of leftovers.

[00:36:08]Ed WexlerOne day we can do those.

[00:36:10]Taylor Jones

[00:36:10]Taylor JonesI get really bored drawing Trump. I'm so sick of him. It's, it's, and to think that's really what I should do all the time.

[00:36:15]Daryl CagleI hear about cartoonists getting sick of Trump, and you know newspapers don't like to print, Trump cartoons.

[00:36:20]Daryl CagleIt's a different audience on the internet and for these podcasts, which is an audience that only wants Trump. And that's a surprise for me. All these cartoons that didn't get reprinted that much in newspapers are the ones they want to see on these podcasts.

[00:36:33]Taylor JonesHave you got, Daryl, have you got any idea of who is listening to you?

[00:36:36]Taylor JonesI mean, who is listening to your podcast? Any idea of the demographics?

[00:36:40]Daryl CagleOh, yes, it is, by far mostly, males over age 55.

[00:36:45]Daryl CagleIn fact, those are also the people that are fans of newspapers and fans of our editorial cartoons in other places. and it is frustrating because we'd like to reach a wider demographic. We hear so much about, the kids studying our cartoons in school, and they write to us about their homework, and, we do a lot of sales to high school textbooks, and to the testing services, because the cartoons are on the AP History test in 8th and 11th grade.

[00:37:10]Daryl Caglebut, you know, kids leave high school, and then they never look at the newspaper again.

[00:37:14]Taylor JonesWell, yeah, of course, hardly anybody under the age of 40. They get, just get their news with their phones, correct?

[00:37:20]Daryl Cagle

[00:37:20]Daryl CagleThey

[00:37:20]Daryl Caglesilo themselves on the phones. If you want to get nothing but news about kitties and video games, that's the news you get on your phone.

[00:37:28]Daryl CagleAnd I think that's just a shame because, you know, newspapers were edited to let people know all the things that they should know. there was someone who was making decisions that were thoughtful about what a well rounded person should know about. And not just video games and kitties.

[00:37:43]Daryl Caglethat's a shame that that's lost.

[00:37:45]Taylor JonesDo you think that, years from now, looking back in history, that the newspaper, as we know it, really, Dates back to the New York Times in the 1850s or sixties, and then really until about 2000, 2010. And that's really been the lifespan of, uh, of, of newspapers that, uh,

[00:38:02]Daryl Caglewhy do you pick

[00:38:02]Daryl Caglethe New York Times in the mid 18 hundreds?

[00:38:05]Taylor JonesThe reason why is because I, I don't know my history enough about this, but it seems to me that was very important. Because they kind of set the standard for, modern journalism. And, it,

[00:38:16]Daryl CagleYou give them a lot of credit. I don't like the New York Times.

[00:38:19]Daryl CagleThey're just

[00:38:20]Daryl Cagleterrible about editorial cartoons.

[00:38:22]Taylor JonesI'm sorry that's true. I wasn't thinking about editorial cartoons. But it seems to me that modern, journalism really began, at that era with that particular newspaper.

[00:38:31]Daryl CagleWell, I'm not inclined to give the New York Times compliments here.

[00:38:34]Taylor JonesWell,

[00:38:34]Taylor Jonesyou know, before then you had these rags that were, in a way kind of like how a lot of news is disseminated now. Uh, you had all these partisan, newspapers owned by rich people. that were doing the, bidding of this or that.

[00:38:47]Taylor JonesI know that in the early days of our republic, it was very much the case that, you know, Jefferson had his, favorite, newspapers that supported him. Hamilton, they were constantly trying to, trying to, dig dirt on each other, these newspapers. and, in a way it's a lot more like it is now.

[00:39:00]Daryl CagleI think I will cut that out.

[00:39:04]Taylor JonesYou can probably cut about most of what I said out there.

[00:39:06]Taylor JonesOkay. Gentlemen, it was a pleasure having you

[00:39:09]Taylor Jonesnice seeing you

[00:39:10]Taylor Jonesalways.

[00:39:10]Ed WexlerSo that is the Caglecast for today. please remember to subscribe, wherever you're watching the Caglecast and sign up for our newsletter at Cagle.com/Subscribe. And, you will always be reminded of the podcast when they come on and any cartoon news. And a new thing we're doing in the newsletter is we're We send you the top five most popular cartoons every day. And that's very exciting. And it changes from day to day you never know what they're going to be.

[00:39:37]Ed WexlerSo thank you everybody. And, thank you again, gentlemen. This was very nice.

[00:39:41]Ed WexlerIt takes a long time

[00:39:42]Ed Wexlerto go through stuff, doesn't it, Taylor? Okay, I'll see you guys later.