TRUMP! TOILET! All the best, stinky Trump cartoons from the Donald’s John!

TRUMP-TOILET!  We've got cartoons about Trump ON a toilet, Trump IN a toilet, Trump flushing and stuffing stuff into a toilet and Trump anywhere associated with toilets.

It's a Trump toilet festival of cartoons with four brilliant, award winning editorial cartoonist masters of the Trump-Toilet genre.

Pat Bagley has been the brilliant, cartoonist for the Salt Lake Tribune in Utah since 1979. Pat has won a ton of awards including the Herblock Prize and he's also a shining star in our profession.

Rick McKee was the cartoonist for decades for the Augusta Chronicle in Georgia; he draws the comic "Pluggers" and we've syndicated Rick for 20 years.

And we have two, great cartoonists from outside of our group!

Jack Ohman is the cartoonist for the San Francisco Chronicle, and before that the Sacramento Bee and the Portland Oregonian. He's won a ton of awards including a Pulitzer Prize.

Matt Davies is the cartoonist for Newsday in New York and he writes and illustrates popular children's books, Mat has also won a ton of awards, including the Pulitzer Prize and the Herblock Award.

And here's one of my own oldies ...

We talk about all of these and 32 more on the podcast!  Come look!



[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHi, I'm Daryl Cagle and this is the CagleCast where we're all about political cartoons and today our topic is Trump Toilet. We'll look at cartoons about Trump on a toilet, Trump in a toilet, Trump flushing and stuffing a toilet full of documents, and Trump anywhere associated with toilets. We've got a Trump Toilet Festival of cartoons with four brilliant award winning editorial cartoonists, masters of the Trump Toilet genre. Pat Bagley Is the brilliant cartoonist for the Salt Lake Tribune in Utah since 1979. Pat has won a ton of awards, including the Herblock Prize, and he's also a shining star in our profession.

[00:00:38]Daryl CagleGreat to have you here, Pat.

[00:00:40]Pat BagleyWell, thank you, Daryl.

[00:00:41]Daryl CagleTell us about this cartoon.

[00:00:42]Pat BagleySo this is a cartoon that I did when it came out that Trump is flushing all of his documents down the toilet. Okay, so this is from 2019. And it's when he was complaining about water use and how they're restricting water use of toilets and you gotta flush like 10 or 15 times to get it down.

[00:01:01]Jack OhmanThat's

[00:01:01]Rick McKeegreat. I love that Pat. I love your little touches. His toilet paper stuck to the bottom of his shoe. I think that's great.

[00:01:09]Rick McKeeLike Daryl said, there

[00:01:11]Rick McKeeit is.

[00:01:12]Pat BagleyWhich actually happened, right?

[00:01:15]Pat BagleyYeah. He walked

[00:01:16]Pat Bagleyup.

[00:01:16]Rick McKeeDid that really happen?

[00:01:21]Matt DaviesYeah, that's right. He's getting on the plane.

[00:01:25]Pat BagleyAnd you can see the toilet paper on his feet. That's right.

[00:01:31]Daryl CagleOkay, Rick. Rick McKee was the cartoonist for decades for the Augusta Chronicle in Georgia. He draws the comic strip Pluggers, and we've syndicated Rick for 20 years.

[00:01:43]Daryl CagleGreat to have you here, Rick. Oh, thanks, Daryl. Happy to be here. A lovely, Constitution as toilet paper cartoon. Yeah, I

[00:01:50]Rick McKeeyou know, when I drew this, I thought this is probably not going to get printed because I've got him, you know, on the toilet with his pants down and his tighty whities showing, but I couldn't resist.

[00:02:00]Rick McKeeSo I'm sure I wasn't the only one to do this, but

[00:02:03]Daryl Cagleyeah,

[00:02:03]Matt DaviesI'm sorry. I like how you've done the, uh, the spray tan line. That's a really good.

[00:02:09]Rick McKeeI didn't start out drawing him that way. And then I started, you know, it started becoming more noticeable. so I started sort of accentuating that. And, of course, the little fly, you know, flying around back there.

[00:02:20]Daryl CagleSo, Jack Oman is the cartoonist for the San Francisco Chronicle, and before that, the Sacramento Bee, and the Portland Oregonian, he's won a ton of awards, including the Pulitzer Prize. It's great to have you here, Jack.

[00:02:30]Jack OhmanGreat to see you, all of you.

[00:02:32]Rick McKeeHey, Jack.

[00:02:32]Daryl CagleAnd this is fun, taking the paperwork out. That's great.

[00:02:36]Rick McKeeAnd he's flush with cash.

[00:02:37]Jack OhmanThis is one of those cartoons where you're just like So many puns, so little time. I think I jammed in three, so, No, it's two. Cartoonists can't count, but anyway.

[00:02:46]Daryl CagleAnd Matt Davies is the cartoonist for Newsday in New York. He writes and illustrates popular children's books, and he's also won a ton of awards, including the Pulitzer Prize and the Herblock Award. Great to have you here, Matt.

[00:02:58]Matt DaviesGreat to be here. Thank you.

[00:02:59]Daryl CagleYeah, that's a lovely oval office.

[00:03:01]Pat BagleyThat's a great, that's a great cartoon.

[00:03:03]Rick McKeeThat's the thing about, that's the

[00:03:05]Rick McKeething about Matt is he always finds that thing that you wish you

[00:03:08]Rick McKeehad thought of.

[00:03:09]Pat BagleyYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:03:10]Matt DaviesYou guys are too kind. I'm gonna look at the date, yeah, 2018. I sort of held off on doing Trump in a, in a toilet until Remember when he said, uh, this one was drawn in response to, um, when he was talking about immigrants coming from, like, Central America and Haiti and African countries, and he called them, and I know I'm not allowed to swear here, from the S H 1 T hole countries, and so I just kind of like, was like, I don't even know, I don't know what else to draw.

[00:03:39]Daryl Cagle

[00:03:42]Daryl CagleI have to apologize for that because YouTube gives us an adults only rating when we are, too, explicit or, raunchy in our wording.

[00:03:51]Rick McKeeIsn't it, isn't it a shame

[00:03:52]Rick McKeethat we've got to edit ourselves when we're talking about what the president has said, we're quoting the president, we can't be quoted on YouTube.

[00:04:00]Matt DaviesOf course, if you're looking for adult, material, there's stuff that's a lot more interesting than us talking.

[00:04:05]Rick McKeeYou know, it's true.

[00:04:06]Daryl CagleYes, whatever's raunchy on our show is just potty humor.

[00:04:10]Matt DaviesBut this was early on in the cycle.

[00:04:12]Matt DaviesYou know, we'll see a lot of the long ties. If I were to draw this now, um, you know, because I've matured and evolved, um, I would draw the tie longer than that.

[00:04:24]Rick McKeeExactly.

[00:04:25]Daryl CagleTrump is wonderful because he's just so, descript in his cartoon, cliches with the tie and the blue suit and The hair, the fish lips, the big belly and, you could just draw any one of those and, you know, it's Trump. And that's wonderful.

[00:04:39]Rick McKeeWell, he is, he is a cartoon

[00:04:41]Matt Daviesyeah. Yeah. He's like a walking, logo, right? Like he's so simple. Like he's just like, you do the mouth, the hair, the tie, and it's just like, boom, you can, you, it's.

[00:04:51]Daryl CagleWell, it's like the comedian

[00:04:52]Rick McKeeJohn Mulaney said years ago, he said, Trump is like a hobo's idea of what a rich guy is, you know. I'm gonna have, I'm gonna have the golden hair. I'm gonna have tall buildings with my name on them. And I'm gonna hire my children to fire people.

[00:05:08]Jack OhmanHave you guys ever seen him in person before?

[00:05:11]Matt DaviesYeah.

[00:05:11]Jack OhmanI saw him at the, uh, 20 Gridiron dinner. I I did the menu. And so I got an invitation to go and we were sitting very close

[00:05:19]Rick McKeeThat's cool..

[00:05:20]Jack OhmanAnd, the entire U.S. Political and media establishment were there. And what I was really struck by was that. You know, you look at him, and I just find him horrific to look at, and I've hated him the second my brother in law gave me Trump the Game in 1988, and I was like, what the actual blank did I do that for?

[00:05:39]Jack OhmanUm, I, I was, I thought he was a very striking looking in person, and just really stood out. He looked different than every other person in the room. Nobody looks like that weird.

[00:05:51]Matt DaviesHe's also really tall, right? I mean, I met him a bunch of times back in the 90s when I worked in Westchester, New York, and, um, he would come because he was building golf courses and he came in and lied about what rules he would adhere to etc, etc But the thing that struck me there, of course, he was a lot younger then But he was really tall like I you know, you know when you meet someone who's famous and they're usually much smaller than they Right.

[00:06:16]Matt DaviesThen you, then you, like, they're usually like five, five or something. And he's like, like I, when they said that he was six, three, I was actually surprised. I would have put him more at like six, but he was like really tall and he had a really long coat on and he was also extremely friendly. I mean, he's very, um, pleasant guy in, person.

[00:06:32]Matt DaviesIt's just when he got into politics that he turned into, you know. Something slightly different.

[00:06:37]Rick McKeeI've heard that. I've heard that he's pleasant.

[00:06:39]Daryl CagleI started my career in New York, and Trump was just a big character then. Back in the 70s and early 80s, he did the Wollman Rink. He was in the news all the time.

[00:06:47]Daryl CagleAnd, uh, I didn't have anything like the picture of what Trump is now in my head. He was a thin, tall guy. and, and it was difficult for me to learn to draw him the way he is now. My first trumps are just terrible, skinny Trumps and, and, uh, just not at all what Trump is. So I, I hate looking back at them.

[00:07:09]Jack OhmanThat's kind of a funny, observation. And, you know, when we all, start caricaturing somebody. It's not exactly like he burst onto the news or anything, but, The people who are the hardest to draw are the people who are most Like a caricature in person and you know when Gingrich came out and you know John Kerry's very unusual looking guy and you know a couple people like that and a lot of cartoonists will think well You know, I've really got this caricature knocked because I can just do the hair do you know, whatever obvious characteristic But you can really blow the caricature and to Daryl's point I had a hard time getting on Trump for about a year.

[00:07:48]Jack OhmanHonestly, it wasn't wasn't happy with You know how I was drawing him. I am now, but of course, I, you know, have to been exposed to him for seven or eight years.

[00:07:56]Matt DaviesI agree, but that would be an interesting, uh, segment to do is the evolution of our Trumps. I hate the way I drew him at first, even that one in the, the oval office one there.

[00:08:06]Matt DaviesI'm looking at him like, we all do this, right? When you, when, when you get a, a new president or politician and you have your first kind of stabs at the caricatures and it kind of looks like them and then Maybe it's a little too much of a portrait of them and then you gradually evolve your caricature to be more of their personality and, um, and just get better at it.

[00:08:26]Matt DaviesAnd like, I do a better Trump now, and I'm sure you guys feel the same way. I just draw him better than I used to, you know, I mean, like even that one's better than, than the one that wasn't there before.

[00:08:34]Jack OhmanI can't stand the way you draw Trump now. Honestly, I

[00:08:37]Rick McKeewas

[00:08:39]Matt Daviesworking on it. I mean, no, you know,

[00:08:46]Daryl Caglethis is a great Trump and and, the poop in the rotunda.

[00:08:49]Daryl CagleI think that's wonderful. This is great.

[00:08:50]Matt Daviesthat was my January 6th. Um, and I just didn't know what else to,

[00:08:55]Daryl CagleOh, that's great for January 6th.

[00:08:57]Pat BagleyYou nailed that one.

[00:08:58]Jack OhmanThat is a magnificent cartoon.

[00:09:01]Rick McKeeAnd the tie, yeah.

[00:09:03]Matt DaviesThe tie is actually in the, well, okay, so, um, I hope my editor's not watching this, but, uh, I told her that this was mud.

[00:09:13]Matt DaviesI'm

[00:09:16]Matt Daviesnot sure that she believed me, but you know, uh, plausible deniability on that one. Um, you know, we are a family newspaper, but I'm sorry, I was just going to say the, but the mouth, and I know you guys probably all sort of go there too is like Trump's mouth is, he, he looks like a tardigrade.

[00:09:33]Matt DaviesYeah.

[00:09:33]Rick McKeeYes. Yes.

[00:09:34]Matt DaviesRight. Only he has four legs instead of six. But otherwise he's,

[00:09:38]Rick McKeeor an orange-i-tan . .

[00:09:40]Daryl CagleYes.

[00:09:42]Daryl CagleYou know, there, there are actually quite a few of Trump spinning in the toilet being flushed, and this was mine.

[00:09:48]Matt DaviesThat's great.

[00:09:48]Daryl CagleAnd it's pretty old. And it's kind of an optimistic cartoon I think because, he never really does get flushed.

[00:09:54]Daryl CagleHe's always around, but it always seems like something is the next thing that's gonna flush him.

[00:09:59]Rick McKeeYeah, I love what you did with his hair there. What was your thinking, Daryl? What were you thinking?

[00:10:03]Daryl CagleYou know, I don't remember what event I drew this for. Um, and, uh,

[00:10:08]Rick McKeeIs that mud? Is that mud splashing up over there?

[00:10:14]Daryl CagleHere's my, my rotunda cartoon. And this was also an early Trump. But this cartoon never goes stale. I could bring it back every couple of years.

[00:10:22]Rick McKeeIt's true. Very good.

[00:10:24]Matt DaviesYou know, you raise a good point. Like where you were talking about the, that thing. And I think, I think we all. Have encountered this over the years, you know, when he first came down the escalator and he started calling Mexicans like rapists and stuff and he literally like every he did things that made us do cartoons where we were like.

[00:10:42]Matt DaviesThat's how that's just, there's no way he's going to survive this. Like this is terrible. And it would, and it became difficult to make the cartoons. He was worse than the cartoons that we were doing. And then you do a cartoon and then three days later, he does something that's even more.

[00:10:54]Matt DaviesAnd so I mean, I referenced the tardigrade, you know, tardigrades, you can't kill them, um, you know, in space, I think, or something like that, but he has that same resilience, like, it doesn't matter what he says or what he does, you can't flush him, you cannot, which gets to work.

[00:11:08]Rick McKeeAnd he's almost impossible to satirize, you almost cannot. Whatever it was, he just said,

[00:11:14]Matt Daviesyeah,

[00:11:14]Daryl Caglewe did Trump as a dog and Trump as Hitler. And this is our Trump toilet podcast. These are standard metaphors for cartoonists. how much can you exaggerate something? Here's the most I could exaggerate it.

[00:11:25]Daryl CagleAnd, we had, Close to a hundred cartoons on each of those. Trump Dog, Trump Hitler, and Trump Toilet. and that's just from our group. because I can search our group, but I can't search the other groups. that's a heck of a lot. This is just our go to place is the toilet and the Hitler.

[00:11:39]Jack OhmanYou know, uh, since I've been in this business, Slightly longer than Bagley, probably.

[00:11:44]Rick McKeeOh, fighting words,

[00:11:46]Jack OhmanNo, but you know, Pat, I mean, we've been around the track, you know, we started in syndication in 80 and, there were these with each, you know, couple of years, there'd be some frontier of taste, that you couldn't go past.

[00:11:59]Jack OhmanAnd the first one I remember very clearly was. Something about, urinanlysis in the Reagan administration, and I remember drawing a cartoon about it, and I was like, oh God, I can't believe I'm doing this, but like the taste thresholds were so different in 1980. You know, I wonder whether Herblock did a toilet in his entire career.

[00:12:18]Jack OhmanI mean, you know, he did a sewer or something like that, but like, I can't visualize a toilet cartoon that Herb did.

[00:12:24]Matt DaviesYou mean actually drawing a toilet? Yeah. Because that would have been like gauche.

[00:12:30]Jack OhmanYeah. So now you have a president of the United States who's establishing a new low in, cultural taste norms every 20 minutes.

[00:12:39]Jack OhmanSo you're almost like trying to keep up with them and as, you know, somebody from Minnesota who very likely is related to Pat Bagley because my great great grandfather had four wives and 38 children. Um, true fact. You know, you're just like, God, do I, I don't, do I, I don't go there, you know.

[00:12:56]Matt DaviesYeah. No, which is why another four years of Trump is so daunting because we've used up all of the metaphors.

[00:13:04]Jack OhmanBuddy, if we get another four years of Trump, you're not going to be drawing political cartoons anymore.

[00:13:10]Rick McKeeYou'll be on the run, Matt. You can stay with me. We'll run together.

[00:13:14]Matt DaviesAll right. We'll go, uh, we'll go to Portugal with, with Pat.

[00:13:19]Pat Bagleyuh, Portugal. Portugal's nice.

[00:13:21]Matt DaviesWell, you know,

[00:13:23]Rick McKeethe Daily Show just did a thing the other day I saw a clip of or talk about, you know, how Trump sort of moved the goalposts and, uh, It was a whole super cut of clips of people criticizing Obama because he had a selfie stick in the Oval Office.

[00:13:41]Daryl CagleI

[00:13:41]Rick McKeedidn't even remember that and I thought, oh no, and how he, how he was degrading the office because he had a

[00:13:48]Rick McKeeselfie stick.

[00:13:49]Matt DaviesYeah, it was the. Uh, saluting the Marine with a Starbucks cup and then the tan suit, right? Those were Oh, and the tan suit, oh. Just the end, the end of, of civilization and decency as we know it.

[00:14:01]Matt DaviesWell,

[00:14:01]Rick McKeeGod forbid a tan suit.

[00:14:03]Daryl CagleI should point out that this lovely White House Trump toilet is by Joe Heller. And the very, very nice Joe Heller. Ha ha ha. The long tie. Very good.

[00:14:12]Rick McKeeLong tie the small hands.

[00:14:14]Daryl CagleHere's John Darkow drawing on the fabric, paper it's the Donald J.

[00:14:18]Daryl CagleTrump presidential library. There were tons and tons of cartoons of the presidential library is some variation on the toilet or the sewer. You know, I've drawn sewer pipes coming out of the White House. you know, one, one thing we do. With our little syndicate is we, track, the usage of the cartoons very closely and, we tracked through the Trump administration to where editors were not wanting to print Trump cartoons at all.

[00:14:40]Daryl Caglethey just were not being reprinted, but they were still very popular on the internet. And we can also track things like, bodily fluids and see that editors don't like to reprint bodily fluids and, you know, those do well on the internet, and they also do well in the podcast. And so we've got all these cartoons that hardly anybody has seen, Trump and, metaphors that editors don't like, that we're just doing all these podcasts with, and that's working for us.

[00:15:04]Jack OhmanI might, I might not be participating in the bodily fluid podcast, Daryl.

[00:15:10]Matt DaviesOh, it's too late. You're already in it. That's the second segment here.

[00:15:15]Daryl CagleYeah.

[00:15:15]Rick McKeeSuch a great style. I like, I like his stuff.

[00:15:17]Matt DaviesYeah, yeah, me too.

[00:15:19]Daryl CagleHere's Steve Sack's that was the National Archives Museum.

[00:15:23]Daryl CaglePresidential papers from the, the toilet. This is very nice. Of course there was that, report of, Trump flushing classified documents down the toilet.

[00:15:31]Matt DaviesThe great Steve Sack.

[00:15:34]Matt Daviesyou know, what's interesting is that that It doesn't, he's got, that explains his weird obsession with flushing toilets 15 times.

[00:15:40]Matt DaviesCartoon totally doesn't need that. it's, it's so strong, right? It's just, it's great.

[00:15:44]Daryl CagleThis is Stéphane Peray, a French cartoonist who lives in Thailand that we used to syndicate until, Well, until he, he started losing his papers and retired like so many of our colleagues. and, this is, this is a cartoon that I know none of our American editors would print.

[00:16:01]Daryl CagleThey don't like to print. Poo poo cartoons. He did a follow up cartoon.

[00:16:06]Rick McKeeOh, it's a double, it's a double whammy.

[00:16:10]Daryl CagleIt is. They don't like flipping the bird in cartoons either. But it works for us and it works for the internet. And I guess it works in Thailand. That's great. Here's Jimmy Margulies with Toilet Water.

[00:16:23]Daryl CagleThis distinctive Trump toilet water is a blend of classified documents, incriminating evidence, and financial trickery.

[00:16:30]Jack OhmanThis is like the most inside joke ever.

[00:16:40]Jack OhmanNow I'd like to do some other illustrators from Nebraska.

[00:16:48]Jack OhmanMy Paul Fell cartoon

[00:16:50]Daryl Cagleis You know,

[00:16:53]Matt DaviesDaryl. Daryl Got that.

[00:16:55]Jack OhmanWe all love Jimmy, incidentally,

[00:16:56]Matt Daviesthe Filipino. Oh yeah, yeah, we Jimmy's awesome. Uh, he's very different. The, um, the Filipino, it's interesting that, and I don't know how many more you have here from, from, uh, overseas cartoonists, but it's interesting how many places, how many foreign cartoonists were able to do scathing cartoons about Trump.

[00:17:14]Daryl CagleYou're thinking of, uh, Manny Francisco

[00:17:31]Jack Ohmanyeah, no Xi cartoons on the toilet, right?

[00:17:33]Daryl CagleWell more than half the world's population lives in a country where cartoonists can't draw their country's leader.

[00:17:39]Matt DaviesRight.

[00:17:39]Daryl CagleAnd that is, very disturbing.

[00:17:41]Matt DaviesWhich is what we're afraid of.

[00:17:44]Rick McKeeYeah, that's coming up. That's uh,

[00:17:46]Pat Bagleyyeah yeah,

[00:17:48]Rick McKeearound the corner.

[00:17:48]Daryl Cagleit usually comes in when they start suing the cartoonists.

[00:17:53]Daryl CagleI have a cartoonist friend in Algeria, Ali Dilem, who says he always has 20 lawsuits simultaneously from leaders that are insulted by his cartoons. We had one cartoonist, Shooty from Slovakia that had his cartoon go to the Supreme Court and when he was being sued by the President of Slovakia for hurting his feelings because he had a sore back.

[00:18:15]Daryl Caglehe drew a cartoon of the President. getting, an x ray and the doctor says, uh, you, you can't have a bad back, you're spineless. And,

[00:18:24]Daryl Cagleuh, you know, to the Supreme Court, that's terrible, EU country, and that happened in, uh, Czech Republic as well. And, I, I think it's a real threat.

[00:18:34]Pat BagleyI was

[00:18:35]Pat Bagleythis last year I was threatened with a lawsuit? By a pretty powerful corporation in Utah and, uh, the paper backed me up and the lawsuit, well, the threat was Pat Bagley has to apologize before this date or we're going to sue and the paper said, we got you covered and her law firm wrote back to them and said, well, you can't do this because the first amendment grounds because of this amendment.

[00:18:57]Pat BagleyBecause you ARE crooks.

[00:18:59]Jack OhmanI want to meet your general counsel, buddy.

[00:19:06]Daryl CagleThe truth is a defense.

[00:19:08]Matt DaviesI've been, I was sued. I was sued by a congressional candidate in New York for a million dollars for defamation. I called him a racist. Because he, he was, um,

[00:19:19]Daryl CagleBecause

[00:19:20]Jack Ohmanhe was. I

[00:19:23]Matt Daviesmean, Um, but it was the same, I was protected under the vaunted, First Amendment and, so, uh, it was laughed out of court, but, uh, it's still scary to get served by someone.

[00:19:32]Matt DaviesGuy came to my house and, you know,

[00:19:36]Jack OhmanI wonder why they even bother because, you know, the Falwell decision was so clear and when, somebody like Tony Scalia is like your lead defense attorney, uh, on satire. I wonder where they are now.

[00:19:50]Daryl CagleIt's still expensive to be sued and even get it thrown out of court.

[00:19:55]Pat BagleyYeah, but we thought Roe v. Wade, we thought Roe v. Wade was settled law too. And they can

[00:19:59]Matt Davieschange it.

[00:20:00]Rick McKeeYeah, I don't, I don't put anything past them if Trump gets back in. I

[00:20:05]Rick McKeedon't put

[00:20:07]Jack OhmanI'm just going to quit, honestly. No, I mean, why bother?

[00:20:11]Pat BagleyWell, they want you to. That's the whole point.

[00:20:13]Jack OhmanYeah, that's true.

[00:20:14]Rick McKeeWell

[00:20:15]Rick McKeeWe need you on that wall, Jack.

[00:20:17]Pat BagleyYes, we do.

[00:20:19]Jack OhmanYou need me on your cell block is what you need me, but, um, I actually don't think this guy is going to win, and I've seen some really interesting polling in the last couple of

[00:20:27]Jack Ohmandays that convinces

[00:20:28]Jack Ohmanme that's the case. But, you know, a lot of us have been doing this for, you know, 30 years or 40 years, you know, and we're coming up on the 50th anniversary of Watergate.

[00:20:37]Jack OhmanAnd, You know, Nixon put Conrad on the enemy's list. I remember very clearly, and Trump never talks about cartoons or cartoonists. My only interaction with him was, I remember when I did do this menu illustration for the, the Gridiron, in 2018, and he held up the menu and showed it to Melania and he goes.

[00:20:58]Jack OhmanAnd puts it down. So, you know, the only time I've seen the president personally react to a cartoon of mine,

[00:21:06]Rick McKeehe would

[00:21:06]Rick McKeehave to read to, uh, to know about cartoons. So that we, we are sort of protected

[00:21:11]Rick McKeethere.

[00:21:11]Matt DaviesYeah, exactly.

[00:21:13]Jack OhmanWell,

[00:21:14]Jack OhmanI'm just, I mean, it's kind of an interesting point, you know, because we're, we're throwing everything we've got at this guy every day and, 50 years ago, Nixon was paranoid about Paul Conrad drawing him as, King Lear, King Richard III or something, you know, like, so, it's a different environment. And I don't think Trump knows who King Lear or King Richard III

[00:21:32]Jack Ohmanis either.

[00:21:32]Daryl CagleWell, you know, we are pretty siloed. We get hardly any audience when we have conservative cartoonists on.

[00:21:38]Daryl CagleThey only care about liberal cartoonists. And, uh, same on my website, my social media. it's the people that are liberal and agree with the majority of the cartoons that are commenting and looking. And, the conservatives go to their own silo and look at something else. Um,

[00:21:56]Jack OhmanBranco.

[00:21:57]Matt DaviesOh, Branco. And that and the other guy.

[00:21:58]Matt DaviesYeah, they're

[00:21:59]Jack OhmanAnd the other guy. Yeah. We always say Branco and the other guy.

[00:22:02]Matt DaviesConspiracy. They're like conspiracy cartoons. Yeah. They're, they're fascinated.

[00:22:06]Rick McKeeI,

[00:22:06]Rick McKeeat his, I was, I was looking at his site just like the other day. I was, what's that guy's name?

[00:22:11]Jack Ohmanthere's a Painter named McNaughton. Is that who you're think about

[00:22:13]Rick McKeeGarrison.

[00:22:15]Jack OhmanOh, Ben Garrison.

[00:22:16]Jack OhmanYeah. Garrison,

[00:22:16]Matt Daviesthat's right.

[00:22:17]Rick McKeeHe had, he

[00:22:17]Rick McKeehad a, he had a, I don't wanna rip on a cartoon, but he had a cartoon of Tucker Carlson. Interviewing Putin, and on the table it had written, Real Journalism.

[00:22:26]Rick McKeeI was

[00:22:30]Rick McKeelike, okay.

[00:22:32]Rick McKeeHere's Real Journalism.

[00:22:33]Daryl CagleSo here, here's Taylor Jones, and he's got, uh, Trump-lax policy softener, makes it easier to pass, and that's, that's funny.

[00:22:42]Daryl CagleTaylor

[00:22:42]Rick McKeeTaylor

[00:22:42]Rick McKeedoes beautiful illustrations.

[00:22:44]Rick McKeeLook at that.

[00:22:45]Jack OhmanTaylor's just the best. I mean, he's just a, you know, Ed Wexler level, you know, Steve Brodner level caricaturist.

[00:22:53]Jack OhmanReally fantastic guy.

[00:22:55]Daryl CagleHe does wonderful Trump hair.

[00:22:57]Rick McKeeAnd we talked

[00:22:58]Rick McKeeabout this on another podcast, but he used to draw Trump drooling all the time. I don't know if y'all ever noticed that, but this is one of his classic Trump drooling cartoons.

[00:23:07]Daryl CagleHere's an excellent Pat Bagley cartoon. Tell us about this, Pat.

[00:23:10]Matt DaviesGreat.

[00:23:11]Pat BagleyYou guys are brave. The only, the only way I could get this past my editors was to keep him with his pants up, but I wanted to do the pants down.

[00:23:20]Daryl CagleDid

[00:23:20]Daryl Cagleyou, did you, did you do it with the pants down and he told you to pull the pants up?

[00:23:26]Pat BagleyFor my own

[00:23:26]Pat Bagleyamusement, I did. But.

[00:23:30]Jack OhmanPeople say Trump smells funny. Maybe that's why, Patrick.

[00:23:34]Jack OhmanWell, he's, yeah. Absolutely.

[00:23:35]Rick McKeewThat as a great one, Pat. I love that. I love your illustration on that.

[00:23:39]Daryl CagleThis one's from Dale Cummings.

[00:23:41]Daryl Cagleyou know, there are a whole lot of Trump in the toilet. often with just no explanation. and they're all very nice.

[00:23:47]Rick McKeeI'm not familiar with this

[00:23:48]Rick McKeecartoonist. Where

[00:23:49]Rick McKeeis he?

[00:23:49]Jack OhmanWell, is

[00:23:49]Jack Ohmanthat Dick Cummings in Canada?

[00:23:52]Daryl CagleYeah.

[00:23:52]Jack OhmanDale Cummings. Yeah. Yeah. He's fantastic.

[00:23:55]Daryl CagleYeah. And he's, he, all of his drawings look nasty.

[00:23:58]Daryl CagleMm-Hmm. . Yeah. I like that nasty look. Yeah. And here's RJ Matson Federal.

[00:24:02]Jack OhmanHe's wonderful.

[00:24:05]Jack OhmanGovernment documents here. Yeah.

[00:24:07]Rick McKeeHe's a, he is a

[00:24:07]Rick McKeemaniac with the details. I, uh, he always, I'm always impressed with

[00:24:11]Rick McKeehis artwork.

[00:24:12]Daryl CagleLooks like it takes him forever, but he goes really fast.

[00:24:15]Matt DaviesReally? That looks like real wallpaper, like, that looks like the actual Mar a Lago, uh, logo.

[00:24:21]Matt DaviesIt does. And the wallpaper. It's amazing.

[00:24:24]Jack OhmanAnd the toilet actually looks like it would function unlike the ones I draw.

[00:24:27]Rick McKeeI think it might be the Mar a Lago logo.

[00:24:29]Rick McKeeI think it is, yeah.

[00:24:31]Daryl CagleSo here's Kristo Komar from Bulgaria, with the secret, toilet paper yelling occupied and FDI open the door. that's fun.

[00:24:39]Daryl CagleThis is Randy Enos. Randy Enos is, our oldest cartoonist. I think he's 88. And, you know, he was one of the original National Lampoon guys. I grew up with his stuff in high school. so it's fun to have him still around.

[00:24:53]Matt DaviesYeah, I met, I met him once in, uh, he and a couple of other artists had a big studio space in Westport, Connecticut.

[00:25:00]Matt DaviesAnd I went there, and met him, when I was a lot younger. And, um, yeah, lovely guy, really. And I mean, obviously his work is, uh, legendary.

[00:25:07]Daryl CagleSo yeah, quite a storied career. And he's just drawn for every place that publishes illustrations.

[00:25:13]Jack OhmanAll those New York guys, you know, uh, Ed Sorel, Arnie Roth and Jules Feiffer.

[00:25:20]Jack OhmanThey all just kind of sit there and they're 94, and they've been 94 for 30 years. Right, right, right. They will not die, you

[00:25:28]Jack Ohmanknow.

[00:25:29]Daryl CagleThat sounds like a business plan. We're getting there too. So, Rick, no job is finished till the paperwork is done.

[00:25:37]Rick McKeeStarting to spot a theme here, Daryl.

[00:25:39]Matt DaviesI like the tie. You got the tie all the way along the floor.

[00:25:42]Daryl CagleExcellent Trump. Now this is from our conservative anonymous cartoonist Rivers. He's got gMother Goose reading the book and she says, and then

[00:25:50]Daryl Caglethe big bad orange man flushed all the papers down the toilet, unnamed White House sources say,

[00:25:56]Daryl Cagleand the stupid children Democrats say, I know it's a fairy tale, but I want to believe, I want to believe!

[00:26:02]Rick McKeeI

[00:26:04]Rick McKeedo find it ironic that, that the anonymous cartoonist is mocking the unnamed source.

[00:26:12]Jack OhmanDaryl, do you

[00:26:13]Jack Ohmanhave a

[00:26:13]Jack Ohmanpolicy of not using his name? I'm

[00:26:15]Jack Ohmansorry, what? What? Do you have a policy of not using his name? I mean, everybody knows what his name is, and I won't use his name, but like, what's the deal?

[00:26:24]Daryl CagleI'm fine with anybody being anonymous if they want to be. And so we won't say his name. If you say it, I will, edit it out because it's, you know, it's, it's polite for him to, uh, Oh, are you're mouthing his name now?

[00:26:35]Daryl CagleNo, I'm just,

[00:26:36]Daryl CagleI'm just.

[00:26:38]Daryl CagleThat's a, that's an interesting, that's an interesting discussion. Cause I mean, there are a lot of cartoonists with pen names. so it's not completely unprecedented. I mean,

[00:26:45]Daryl Caglemy name is

[00:26:46]Jack OhmanWell, Rivers is a sea change to mix a water metaphor, right? I mean, it's not like you start it off as

[00:26:51]Jack OhmanRivers.

[00:26:51]Matt DaviesYeah, no, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you know. ,

[00:26:54]Rick McKeeI know this was probably drawn beforehand, but, you know, since this has been drawn, there's been actual photographs of the documents in the toilet. So, you know, this is no longer a fairy tale. This is, not made up. So if you were like, if you were like in

[00:27:11]Rick McKeeBrazil or Mexico or one of those countries, you wouldn't be allowed to flush it. You'd have to throw it in the little trash can beside

[00:27:17]Rick McKeethe

[00:27:17]Rick McKeetoilet.

[00:27:17]Matt DaviesRight, right. Nothing goes into the, yeah, yeah, no solid.

[00:27:20]Daryl CagleSo

[00:27:21]Daryl Caglehere's Trump the Ripper by, uh, Ed Wexler.

[00:27:23]Matt DaviesOh, Ripper, yeah, Trump the Ripper. That's a good, yeah, that's a good, uh, play on words. I like that.

[00:27:29]Rick McKeeEd is a great artist. A funny guy,

[00:27:31]Rick McKeeEd.

[00:27:31]Daryl CagleAnd, uh, Donald John Trump. Here you've got Dave Whamond. Don't worry, fellas.

[00:27:37]Daryl CagleI printed all your texts and flushed them down the toilet.

[00:27:40]Rick McKeeThat's good.

[00:27:41]Rick McKeeThat's clever. I hadn't thought about that. Donald John.

[00:27:43]Matt DaviesOh, yeah. I can't believe I hadn't used the John. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:27:47]Matt DaviesOh, well.

[00:27:48]Rick McKeeI'm making a note.

[00:27:49]Daryl CagleJack, here's yours. Watergate, 18 and a half minute gap and the Water-closet-gate, uh, 18 and a half flushes.

[00:27:57]Daryl CagleThat's very nice.

[00:27:58]Rick McKeeThat's great, Jack.

[00:27:59]Daryl CagleJack, your color makes me laugh. I think your color is funny. The one with Nixon had to have the sepia tone, I mean. Yeah, yeah. I like that. I like that touch, yeah.

[00:28:08]Daryl CagleAnd this is great. And again, here you've got all those bright colors, but it looks sophisticated with the texture.

[00:28:13]Daryl CagleAnd I think that's really very nice.

[00:28:15]Rick McKeeThat's lovely, Jack. That probably pops off the page, doesn't it?

[00:28:18]Jack OhmanThank you, very kind of you to say, you know, on the Nixon cartoon, I remember when he died in 94 and I drew a, tape recorder, you know, reel to reel, and oh my God, even back then, young people were like, what's that?

[00:28:31]Jack OhmanWow. and again, we're 50 years out from this, and so, to draw a toilet that's at least a referenceable, piece of equipment these days compared to a reel to reel tape recorder.

[00:28:41]Rick McKeeYeah.

[00:28:42]Matt DaviesThat was, you know, that was my first killed cartoon was, when Nixon died. And I, I probably, a lot of people did this, but I did the 18 and a half minutes of silence. A young, uh, inexperienced cartoonist at the time. And my editor was like, yeah, I'm not putting that in the paper. And I was like, why? It's

[00:28:56]Matt Daviesfunny.

[00:28:57]Jack OhmanWell, it's, it's 70, it's 72. You're like the youngest cartoonist now, right?

[00:29:03]Daryl CagleThis is very nice, Jack. And, you've got the FBI saying, no, you search the toilet and t hat's funny and it's uh, it's bright primary colors. That's great.

[00:29:13]Pat Bagleydid Jack, did you do this before they found out that he was actually storing documents? In the, in the bathroom. And when we posted the picture, these top secret documents stacked next to the toilet.

[00:29:26]Pat BagleyWas

[00:29:26]Pat Bagleythis before or after that?

[00:29:27]Jack OhmanI don't recall, that story moved really fast. You know, and I guess, knowing that he did try to flush the documents was known, right? So that's this, the joke. But I don't recall. My memory's fading, you know.

[00:29:40]Daryl CagleYou know, this, it's funny. I, I'd forgot. I found this one when you asked me to, when you asked us to look for toilet cartoons in a, um, I remember doing this and, uh, you know, it was a play on the, the chain get in a sheriff Arpaio was famous for his chain gangs.

[00:29:55]Daryl CagleAnd, um, um, and I remember drawing it and going, do you think it's funny? Anyone will remember those old Well, and I and so what so I you know, I grew up in england and I moved here many years ago But you know, and there were a lot of old houses that had those toilets and i've run into this from time to time Where I have, you know, my, my hard drive was kind of scratched as a kid in England.

[00:30:20]Daryl CagleAnd so I have cultural references that people are like, what the hell? Like, so I remember, like, I sketched that up and I was like, actually concerned that my editor might be like, what, what on earth is that happening on the top of that toilet? Is that like, because it's the gag is purely because he's pulling the chain on the thing.

[00:30:38]Daryl CagleAnd, you know, of course, You can't buy that in Home Depot now, you know, it's the little

[00:30:42]Daryl Caglething.

[00:30:43]Rick McKeeI got it, and that's where Michael Corleone hid the gun, right? I

[00:30:46]Rick McKeemean, that's where he got the gun.

[00:30:47]Matt DaviesYeah, yeah. It's an old Yeah, it's One of those elevated tanks.

[00:30:50]Matt DaviesYeah, yeah. Very good.

[00:30:52]Daryl CagleAnd you have no obligation to draw eyes on Trump.

[00:30:55]Daryl CagleNo, I, I, that's a thing that I've noticed that I do and I didn't really make a conscious decision. I, I've started eliminating a lot of people's eyes, when I think that they're, um, uh, let's say, uh, let's just say I disagree with them. I feel like taking the eyes away makes them, it, it dehumanizes them somehow.

[00:31:13]Daryl CagleI, I don't know. It just makes them seem slightly more nefarious. I've stopped drawing eyes on Vladimir Putin as well. I don't know. I don't know what that is. It's, I probably need to see a

[00:31:23]Daryl Caglepsychiatrist.

[00:31:23]Jack OhmanI know I, I know I eliminate mouths. It's from time to time. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . You just get rid of it and you're like, how do you do that?

[00:31:29]Jack OhmanAnd yet it works. Yeah.

[00:31:31]Jack OhmanYeah.

[00:31:31]Rick McKeeSometimes it works. Works much better sometimes,

[00:31:34]Jack Ohmanright? Well, my rule of thumb is if I can't catch the likeness, I just leave that feature out,

[00:31:40]Jack Ohmanso, you know.

[00:31:40]Matt DaviesRight, right. No, yeah, you're right. And you put like, you, like you have it. And then you put the mouth in and it looks like, it's like, Oh no, that doesn't work.

[00:31:47]Daryl CagleI worked for many years for the Muppets and they had that same philosophy about eyes, but never mouths. They wouldn't delete mouths.

[00:31:54]Matt DaviesInteresting. Huh. Yeah. You need to better do this with the Muppet. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:00]Matt DaviesAnd here's another nice Pat Bagley.

[00:32:02]Jack OhmanYeah. You're from the wide stance state there, Pat. Yeah. .

[00:32:05]Pat BagleyYes.

[00:32:06]Matt Daviesoh, you know what's interesting about, about this O Okay, so we've all done a cartoon where, oh, you say what? What? And I was always, I always struggle with the, um. What you put after it to make it sound like you're going, what? And, uh, that that's effective.

[00:32:20]Matt DaviesIt's a exclamation point and a question mark.

[00:32:22]Daryl CagleI put in a couple of these, uh, uh, Republican toilet cartoons on gays because there were a whole lot of them and you know, we could do, okay, this

[00:32:31]Pat Bagleyback so senator who was in the airport was, he had the wide

[00:32:36]Pat Bagleystance Yes. He is from, from, oh, Idaho, I think.

[00:32:39]Pat BagleyYeah. Larry Craig. So that's what this is, this is what this refers to. Right, right. Because I first thought it was like a what?

[00:32:45]Pat BagleyOh! Yeah, no,

[00:32:46]Pat Bagleyyeah. You know, Pat, we all know Tom Meyer.

[00:32:49]Pat BagleyWe haven't seen him in a while, cartoonist conventions. But, uh, we had a joke for years about, there were two types of, The fallback punchline for any political cartoon would be he would use the phrase Stockman back when, you know, Dave Stockman was the OMB director and, you know, there'd be something missing from somebody's office and it was his budget cutting.

[00:33:09]Pat BagleyAnd so he's Stockman. And then the other one is now what? And Handelsman and I have been talking about this for decades, you know, which is like if you don't have a caption, but you got a good drawing, you say, now what? Okay, well,

[00:33:21]Matt Daviesor there's the. That,

[00:33:23]Matt Daviesthat is

[00:33:24]Matt Daviesthe

[00:33:24]Jack Ohmanright. That is the, well, that's still, I'm sorry.

[00:33:26]Jack OhmanDon't get me started. I'll bet I did one two weeks ago, but

[00:33:31]Rick McKeeLook at

[00:33:31]Rick McKeeall that mud. Oh,

[00:33:32]Rick McKeehello.

[00:33:33]Daryl CagleI did

[00:33:33]Daryl Caglethis Ted Cruz, uh, it's a tribute to a Steve Bell cartoon about, George W. Bush and he always drew George W. Bush as a monkey. And, I just, uh, I thought that was wonderful. So I did a tribute cartoon, but there are just to make the point that, uh, toilets are not limited to Trump.

[00:33:53]Matt DaviesYou know, it's fun.

[00:33:55]Rick McKeeHow many papers do you think are in

[00:33:56]Rick McKeethat? Um, you know, I, as things change and these things are good for podcasts and internet, uh, I'm not sure that we should, be self censoring on these kinds of things anymore.

[00:34:10]Rick McKeeYou know, you referenced, you referenced, uh, that this is a tribute to Steve Bell's cartoon.

[00:34:15]Rick McKeeI, I remember talking to Steve about that, that cartoon, um, we were doing a, an event together in, in London and, um, and he actually, it did appear in print in The Guardian, but he had trouble,, even in England where pretty much anything goes and, um, And he said he had to negotiate the amount of turds, uh, and so they, so he took, he took a few out and then it was good to go.

[00:34:49]Rick McKeeAlso happy 65th birthday to Martin Rowson and who could draw this but make it even grosser.

[00:34:54]Matt DaviesOh yeah.

[00:34:56]Daryl CagleAnd here's Dave Granlund flushing the Constitution,

[00:35:00]Matt DaviesDave's Trump, uh, Dave Granlund's Trump. That's a good, that's a good Trump.

[00:35:05]Matt DaviesThat really, yeah. Yeah. He's got the kind of,

[00:35:07]Matt Daviesyeah.

[00:35:07]Rick McKeeHe's got the mouth, the downturned mouth and squinting eyes.

[00:35:12]Matt DaviesYeah.

[00:35:12]Matt DaviesKind of. Bull Bullfrog kind of look. Yeah.

[00:35:16]Daryl CagleAll right. So, Pat, here is one of yours, the Donald J. Trump Presidential Library, also flushing the, the documents down the golden toilet. So, tell us about this one.

[00:35:26]Daryl CagleSo I had this idea, and I thought, that's a good idea, and I did it up, and I was gonna send it to you, but I thought, you know, you get that feeling sometimes, maybe somebody's done this before, you do that Google search, and you're not quite sure.

[00:35:39]Daryl CagleSo I did show it to a couple of my, peers, a couple of my colleagues, and they said, oh yeah, that's been done. So I did not send this one in. This was not published.

[00:35:46]Rick McKeeWell, I think it's great, and I think, you know, it's a little detail that I think cartoonists will probably get, other people won't, but you really tried to, uh, get his signature down on those documents, so it looks very much like his signature.

[00:35:59]Rick McKeeAnother thing I think that's funny that I've noticed through all these cartoons, or a lot of them anyway, is that sort of a solid gold toilet. I don't know that there's ever been a story that he's got a solid gold toilet, but all of us cartoonists sort of Picked up on that and

[00:36:12]Matt Daviesno, there

[00:36:13]Matt Davieswas no, okay.

[00:36:15]Matt DaviesYeah. Yeah. He definitely has has or had gold toilets. Yeah. Okay.

[00:36:20]Daryl CagleI'm

[00:36:20]Daryl Caglesure it's not solid.

[00:36:22]Pat BagleyGold, gold plate.

[00:36:24]Matt DaviesRight. Right. It's cool. It's yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:26]Daryl CagleWhen Johnny Carson died, I drew a cartoon that had Johnny Carson at the Pearly Gates and, uh, St. Peter says, uh, any cartoonist who draws me saying, here's Johnny is going straight to hell.

[00:36:41]Daryl CagleAnd I collected all the straight and all the Pearly Gates. Here's Johnny cartoons. And, and there were about. I guess 15 or so, and I put them under my cartoon, and I put that up on MSNBC, and I thought that was fun, and, uh, nobody, nobody got the joke, they just thought every cartoon was funny, and, we worry too much about this stuff.

[00:37:01]Matt DaviesYou know, my, what, what part of my, part of my employment agreement with Newsday is No Pearly Gates cartoons.

[00:37:09]Daryl CagleIs it really ?

[00:37:10]Matt DaviesYeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My editor, she's, she's like, no Pearly Gates cartoons. They're terrible.

[00:37:15]Rick McKeeGood for her.

[00:37:16]Matt DaviesYeah. No, and I, no, we, I mean, it was a, it's a humorous, employment agreement, but, uh, uh, yeah, it's, let's move beyond.

[00:37:24]Matt DaviesThe Pearly Gates.

[00:37:26]Jack OhmanI think if you can keep it down to a couple a year, , I think

[00:37:30]Rick McKeewhen I started, you know, I, I think I did my share early on. Sure. And I was like, and I was like, never again. I was, whatever. Whatever happened. So I've never drawn another one of those things.

[00:37:44]Rick McKeeSo, uh, everybody, thank you for coming to the Caglecast. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're watching and, thank you so much. And I will see you later and gentlemen, Next time.

[00:37:58]Jack OhmanYeah. Good to see y'all. Good to see y'all.

[00:38:01]Matt DaviesIt almost felt like a convention. We,

[00:38:03]Jack Ohmanwell, you know, how am I going to turn this down?

[00:38:05]Jack OhmanYou know, so, uh,

[00:38:07]Rick McKeethat

[00:38:07]Rick McKeewas great. That was great fun. I had a good time. That was a lot

[00:38:09]Rick McKeeof fun.