Trump/Hitler! The Greatest TRUMP as HITLER Political Cartoons!

Transcript:

[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHey everybody, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the CagleCast. We're all about political cartoons, and today our topic is Trump Hitler. You all know Godwin's Law, that every argument on the internet ends up with a reference to Hitler, and it is just the same with editorial cartoonists. we exaggerate things, and very often that exaggeration ends up as Hitler, and You'll see Hitler in cartoons on all kinds of topics, but lately it is a whole lot of Trump is Hitler, and so that's our theme for today.

[00:00:32]Daryl CagleWe have lots of great Trump Hitler cartoons, and we have three great cartoonists talking about all the Trump Hitler cartoons. Taylor Jones is a brilliant cartoonist. He draws for the Hoover Digest at Stanford University. He was a staff cartoonist for many years for the El Nuevo Dia newspaper in Puerto Rico. And he drew for many years for U. S. News and World Report Magazine.

[00:00:53]Daryl CagleAnd he's won a ton of awards. And this is your Hitler here, Taylor.

[00:00:57]Taylor JonesWell, I'd completely forgotten this cartoon.

[00:00:59]Daryl CaglePat, can you read this Hitler for us? Eich! Sie

[00:01:03]Pat ByrnesZee Third Reich

[00:01:04]Pat Byrnesist going to be huge! Und zee Pols, they

[00:01:08]Pat Byrneslove me! I'm going to

[00:01:10]Pat Byrnesget all their votes!

[00:01:12]Pat ByrnesBut

[00:01:12]Pat Byrnesfirst, we must rid society of these low energy parasites to make Deutschland great again!

[00:01:22]Daryl CagleOh, that was excellent. So, uh That

[00:01:26]Taylor Joneswas crazy. Do

[00:01:31]Daryl Cagleyou have any comments on this one,

[00:01:32]Taylor JonesTaylor? Well, I think first, I think they should, uh, uh Bring a remake of a Hogan's Heroes and have Pat star in it.

[00:01:41]Pat ByrnesI'm going to be Schultz.

[00:01:42]Pat ByrnesI'm Schultz.

[00:01:43]Bill DayWhat year was this?

[00:01:44]Daryl CagleWhat year was this? I think this was 2015. Wow.

[00:01:49]Taylor JonesIt might have been. You know,

[00:01:50]Pat ByrnesYou called it.

[00:01:52]Bill DayThat was while he was running.

[00:01:54]Daryl CagleIt

[00:01:54]Taylor Joneswas. It was. I don't know. The reference just occurred to me early. I am just so jealous. the rhetoric really hasn't changed in the

[00:02:04]Bill DayWell, you beat me to it!

[00:02:05]Daryl Caglenow we move on to, Pat Byrnes. Pat, here is one of yours. Can you read this one to us?

[00:02:11]Pat ByrnesMy mom's old enough to remember when Hitler was bad.

[00:02:14]Daryl Caglewe're seeing so much Hitler now. Even so, the editors don't like Hitler cartoons. Hitler cartoons don't get much reprint. You see Hitler cartoons on the web.

[00:02:22]Taylor JonesYeah, probably some of them are pro Hitler. Yeah, you

[00:02:25]Pat Byrnesalso see people talking about, I mean, they're flirting with it. I mean, not counting the people on January 6th who walked around with the flags, but there are people that are like.

[00:02:36]Pat ByrnesThey're, like you see the videos of, I don't mean to dehumanize people here, but you see videos of like guerrilla wars. I mean, G O R I L L A wars, where they run up to a line and they, they threaten they, and then they kind of retreat. It's the bluff. It's the working up their nerve before there's actual combat.

[00:02:56]Pat ByrnesAnd you see that kind of stuff happening. And that's kind of creepy..

[00:03:00]Daryl CagleI've got a list of, ten reasons for Trump to be Hitler. he is the leader of a personality cult. He's a strong man leader. Theatricality and massive political rallies. Hyper nationalist. Calls for bans and deportations of immigrants who are vermin poisoning the blood of America.

[00:03:19]Daryl CagleWording from Mein Kampf, the fetishization of masculinity, vengeance, the lost golden age syndrome, promises to purge the disloyal, readiness to use violence in politics and demonization and calls to jail opponents. that is a heck of a lot of similarities.

[00:03:40]Pat ByrnesYeah, all he has to do is annex the Sudetenland land and he's there.

[00:03:42]Taylor JonesYou know, sometimes I wonder, if Hitler had been around today, would he be sort of more like Hitler or more like Trump and vice versa? Hitler was able to make great use of a new technology.

[00:03:53]Taylor JonesOf the time, uh, which at least was radio of course, people respond more viscerally to, audio than they do to video. And, that's one of the reasons why talk radio is so successful. and, uh, you know, Hitler would have, I think, been a creature of his time whenever he might have appeared.

[00:04:09]Daryl CagleWell, we do have to acknowledge that Hitler is the greatest mass murderer in history, and I don't think Trump rises to the levels of that. So it is an exaggeration,

[00:04:23]Daryl Caglebut it is

[00:04:24]Pat ByrnesStalin got 9 million.

[00:04:26]Taylor JonesYeah. Well, I thought Stalin got more. Depends on, you know, who you ask. Yeah.

[00:04:30]Pat ByrnesHe wasn't as good at branding though.

[00:04:33]Taylor JonesThe point I was trying to make was that I think that political leaders are creatures of their time.

[00:04:37]Taylor JonesAnd, and I don't know that. today, in a, highly advanced, highly industrialized nations like Germany. I don't know if they could be capable of producing a kind of figure like Hitler, who was both, technologically and politically, the product of his times and the resentments of his times.

[00:04:52]Taylor JonesBut I think those, those change, by the way, just want to say Pat. I love Your kid there with the shirt tails hanging out. That's great.

[00:04:59]Daryl Cagleyou have wonderful body language in your cartoons Pat.

[00:05:02]Pat ByrnesWell, isn't cartooning acting?

[00:05:04]Taylor JonesI think you're demonstrating that it is. Yes

[00:05:05]Pat ByrnesI believe it is. It's um, I mean, it's, it's, it's art. I mean, composition and all that stuff, but that's the emotion part. You need the body language. We're not just. puttin stick figures in

[00:05:15]Daryl Caglethere. So, to introduce you, Pat, you are best known for your cartoons in The New Yorker, you draw all kinds of gag cartoons for other magazines, you did a comic strip for years called Monkey House, and you're an advertising illustrator who's won a bunch of awards.

[00:05:27]Pat ByrnesHow do you

[00:05:28]Daryl Cagledo?

[00:05:28]Daryl CagleOkay, Bill, moving on to you. This is great. This was actually an early one too, Bill. You've, I think you hold the distinction of drawing more Trump Hitlers than any of our other cartoonists.

[00:05:43]Bill DayWell, I'm proud of that. I have to say. You know, I grew up, I grew up in the South. I grew up in Florida and when I was the age of 10. accidentally coming home from a drive in a movie theater, I saw a Klan rally and a cross burning.

[00:05:56]Bill DayAnd from that day on, I had been aware of, of fascism and Hitler and Trump remind me so much of each other because. to, to me, the, the 10 reasons that you just listed are absolutely true. I had nightmares as a child, uh, thinking that maybe a cross would be burned in my front yard, because I had seen what they can do.

[00:06:18]Bill DayAnd here in Florida, the Nazis and the Klan are very, very strong, very powerful people here. And Trump and DeSantis. Have enabled, all these Klansmen to come down and all these Nazis to move to Florida because they're welcome here. We have an overpass in Orlando where Nazis take their flags, those Swastika flags, and wave them to passerbys that come underneath the bridge.

[00:06:46]Bill DayAnd DeSantis's press secretary said, well, those are actually leftists that were dressed up as Nazis who want to make the Nazis look bad.

[00:06:58]Daryl CagleANTIFA..

[00:06:58]Bill DaySo that's what we're dealing with here. That's what

[00:07:02]Bill Daywe're dealing with.

[00:07:03]Daryl CagleHere you go, Bill. Tell us about this one. Here you've got, Lady Liberty with a Trump Hitler mustache.

[00:07:09]Bill DayYes. Yes. Somebody got up there and painted Trump under her lip. That's what American can become if Trump has his way.

[00:07:18]Taylor JonesGood composition, Bill. Looks good.

[00:07:20]Pat ByrnesExactly.

[00:07:21]Pat ByrnesYou know, I just got just got just enough of that arm to suggest that's a nice touch.

[00:07:26]Daryl CagleYou know, the Hitler look and the Hitler mustache and the hairdo is really very 1920s fashionable chic. And, I'd never really thought about that because he has his own look and, you know, it's a cartoony look and it is Hitler.

[00:07:38]Daryl CagleBut, you know, if you look at it as a style of the time, he was, he was being very fashionable.

[00:07:43]Daryl CagleYou have no comment on that?

[00:07:44]Taylor JonesI, I don't know. I've paid a paid attention to a lot of faces, photos from that era. I don't know about that, Daryl, because, he was brutally made, you know, made fun of in cartoons in, in elsewhere in Europe, in the west before the war. And, they certainly.

[00:07:58]Daryl CagleLook at those John Held Jr. cartoons. You see some Hitler mustaches in those.

[00:08:01]Taylor JonesYou do, you do, but, I guess the Hitler mustache, that, that succeeded the Kaiser Wilhelm mustache. The two small points, you know, coming up like this and, uh, mustache styles.

[00:08:12]Daryl CagleHere's another one from you, Bill. You've got the Hitler mustache on Lincoln that Trump has painted on him. So what's the context for Trump painting this Hitler mustache on Lincoln?

[00:08:24]Bill DayHe just wants to take away freedom. He wants to take away what Lincoln stands for. That's all.

[00:08:29]Pat ByrnesAnd a lot of his MAGA, maniacs like to point out that it, that it was the Democrats who were fighting for slavery and, you know, it was the Republicans who released the slaves and they don't seem to realize that some things have changed over the last 150 years.

[00:08:44]Daryl CagleYou know, cartoonists on the right draw lots of Hitler, too, and they depict the left as Hitler. And, I think there is some reciprocity going on. I'm gonna show a few of those later.

[00:08:54]Taylor JonesTrump likes to leave his mark. And that's what he's doing here, and, when he would take possession of some skyscraper or casino, the first thing was to rip off what was On the front and put up giant Trump letters.

[00:09:07]Taylor JonesSo he's just doing what he does best.

[00:09:09]Daryl CagleI like how the paintbrush is also a little Hitler mustache.

[00:09:13]Daryl CagleHere's Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene preparing to wear their Hitler mustaches.

[00:09:18]Pat ByrnesGreat paper doll set for the kids.

[00:09:22]Taylor JonesYeah.

[00:09:28]Bill DayOh, I don't know. I think she thinks she's nuts. She fit in perfectly with him.

[00:09:32]Pat ByrnesThe goose stepping for one.

[00:09:33]Daryl CagleOkay. Here is, uh, Angel Boligan, our cartoonist from Mexico City. I thought this was a great looking cartoon. know, these Trump Hitlers could be artful. Yeah.

[00:09:46]Taylor JonesWell, he was an illustrator.

[00:09:48]Pat ByrnesWhat's the line from the, from the producers? Oh, he was a wonderful painter. He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon.

[00:09:55]Pat ByrnesTwo coats!

[00:09:59]Daryl CagleHere's John Darkow. Hitler says, your opposition are vermin. You've come a long way. As, Trump is a Nazi giving a salute and there's a vermin.

[00:10:08]Bill DayYeah. There's the vermin.

[00:10:09]Daryl CagleMussolini with hair mousse.

[00:10:11]Taylor JonesWell, that's the thing. When you had, uh, one of the earlier podcasts with Ed Wexler joining us, he could do that.

[00:10:16]Taylor Jonesa, a good, Mussolini imitation, and Trump has some of the Mussolini buffoonery, that, he likes to incorporate into his rallies and what have you. Just his daily, his daily being,

[00:10:26]Bill Dayhe does like to cross his arms and do nods his head and,

[00:10:29]Taylor Jonesright, exactly.

[00:10:30]Bill DayExactly. Right.

[00:10:30]Daryl CagleHe's got more of a, comedian's kind of delivery though, you know, angry and ranting and yelling, and, you know, Trump has some timing and, he muses.

[00:10:41]Pat ByrnesHe's got the delivery of a bully. it's mockery. It's not comedy. You, you can't tell by me sitting here and looking as large as you, but I was not a large person ever in my life. And when I was a kid, I was especially small and I looked about three years younger than my age, basically a stem cell on legs.

[00:11:00]Pat ByrnesAnd I also got straight A's, so I got bullied a lot. I know bullies. I know what they sound like. I know what they act like. And Trump talks like one. His minions talk like it. They don't say anything of substance. It's just like boom. They go for the insult. So, um, yeah, it's not comedy.

[00:11:22]Bill DayThey love him for being a bully.

[00:11:25]Taylor JonesThat's exactly right. They like his bully ness.

[00:11:28]Pat ByrnesAmen. And what kind of sickness of the soul is that?

[00:11:33]Daryl CagleLots of name calling. Yeah.

[00:11:36]Pat ByrnesOh, yeah. From the courtroom.

[00:11:37]Daryl CagleYou know, editorial cartoonists do lots of name calling. A whole lot of cartoons are nothing but ad hominems, and you just kind of laugh at the name calling.

[00:11:46]Taylor JonesPerhaps, Daryl, it's the revenge of people who were bullied. You know, that, uh, the bullies get back at - hurt people with cartoons.

[00:11:53]Daryl CagleHere's another Darkow cartoon with Darth Vader, Osama bin Laden, and Hitler. And Trump is walking up behind saying, Hey, bad hombres, whatever you tell me, I'll take you at your word.

[00:12:03]Taylor JonesThat's the tallest Hitler I've ever seen.

[00:12:05]Pat ByrnesA short perspective is the perspective of

[00:12:08]Taylor JonesOsama bin Laden is tall.

[00:12:10]Daryl CagleRead this one for us, Pat.

[00:12:11]Pat ByrnesThe vermin are poisoning the blood of our nation!

[00:12:15]Daryl CagleThe vermin thing is interesting. People don't really say the word vermin. It's one of those words that's not in a speaking vocabulary.

[00:12:24]Pat ByrnesYeah, it's kind of a tell, isn't it?

[00:12:26]Taylor JonesNot anymore.

[00:12:28]Daryl CagleUsed to be. We also don't talk about poisoning blood. that's not a metaphor that people just pops off their tongue.

[00:12:35]Pat ByrnesA lot of Trump's, uh, MAGA minions in their, Twitter handles have pure blood as part of their name.

[00:12:43]Taylor JonesWell, you know, sometimes I think, all this genetic stuff, genetic testing, all the little kits you can get. I don't think that's help matters in some ways. I think it's like saying, well, you know, I'm, I'm really Norwegian American, you know, I'm really Norwegian or I'm really, Swiss or something like that.

[00:12:56]Pat ByrnesAnd, and, uh, uh, that, that somehow that's, that's, that's better. That's what really makes them is what their past was.

[00:13:02]Daryl CagleSo are you guys looking at the MAGA people and seeing Master Race stuff?

[00:13:07]Bill DayOh yeah.

[00:13:08]Pat ByrnesYou got half right that race wasn't the way the word ends.

[00:13:11]Daryl CagleSo, here we've got Pat Bagley from Utah, and he's got Trump saying, All these radical leftist vermin who compare me to Hitler will be shot. Ominous looking cartoon.

[00:13:22]Taylor JonesYeah, that's a really ominous Trump.

[00:13:23]Daryl CagleNice transition to the, grayscale.

[00:13:26]Pat ByrnesBut yeah, he's, he's pledging his vengeance.

[00:13:28]Daryl Cagleyeah, they like the vengeance.

[00:13:30]Taylor JonesYou know, I think a great, myth of the 1960s was that everybody, was anti war and everybody was pro civil rights and that was hardly the case. And you can certainly look back to Nixon, in 1968, and George Wallace together got 57 percent of the vote.

[00:13:46]Taylor Jonesand Nixon was using, speechwriters like Pat Buchanan, taking digs at this or that kind of people and, and, I think that there's people out there who want to go back, just want to go back and back and back, back, before Brown versus Board of Topeka, back, back before the New Deal, back.

[00:14:00]Taylor JonesYou it's very much, going back to a, to a time they want to remember as a more pure and wholesome when certainly it wasn't, but they're determined and they have never sort of been passed down to the generations. they've never given up that hope and Trump has brought voice and meaning to that way of thinking.

[00:14:17]Bill DayThat's true.

[00:14:17]Taylor JonesAll these years later.

[00:14:18]Pat ByrnesYeah, he's, he's, he's permitted it. And, he also came along at a time when celebrity culture was at its peak and he rode that with no real achievement other than being born rich and. spending some money, you get his name on a building, or twenty.

[00:14:32]Daryl CagleHere's another Pat Bagley cartoon. The every man in the middle says, Why is it always a choice between the lesser of two evils? With Hillary on the left with her emails and Trump on the right with, grand evil Hitler and Klan and Satan and

[00:14:47]Taylor JonesGood cartoon.

[00:14:49]Daryl CagleIt is not, a equitable Choice there.

[00:14:53]Pat Byrnesyeah, the both sides-ing and stuff. It doesn't work anymore.

[00:14:56]Daryl Caglethey do see the left as really, really evil.

[00:15:02]Pat ByrnesPedophiles

[00:15:03]Daryl CagleAnd I don't, I think they, yes. And, I think there's more passion on the right than there is on the left.

[00:15:10]Pat ByrnesLet me tell you something

[00:15:11]Pat Byrnesabout, about bullies.

[00:15:12]Pat Byrnesand name calling, they're going to call you the thing that they can be sure is worse than them. So I'm going to call you something that I know that I'm better than. And where are they? They're talking about Satanists and pedophiles. That's what they think of themselves, that the only thing worse than them are Satanists.

[00:15:32]Pat Byrnesand pedophiles. So there's a really low, low negative self image going on there. Somebody doesn't do that unless they're afraid, deeply afraid that they're trash. to use a racially loaded word.

[00:15:47]Daryl CagleWell, there's got to be some point where the repetition and everybody that, you're hanging with saying the same thing is,

[00:15:55]Pat ByrnesEmboldening

[00:15:55]Daryl Caglejust a matter of, well, well, emboldening, but it seems to me like they actually believe this stuff that they're, I mean, there's not enough psychological disorders to explain everybody taking this point of view.

[00:16:07]Taylor JonesWell, you know, one of the things I find difference between the left and the right is that the left likes to satirize and the right like to demonize. and in fact, generally speaking, um, right and satire don't work very well. And once, once they choose their demons, these demons never leave.

[00:16:23]Taylor Jonesyou know, Nancy Pelosi is no longer speaker, and yet she's still as demonic in their eyes as she was when they pegged her with that, Fifteen years ago.

[00:16:31]Daryl CagleTaylor, I think people on the right would make the same argument and say that the right likes to satirize and the left likes to demonize.

[00:16:38]Taylor JonesWell, I think anybody paying attention to comedy would find that absurd.

[00:16:42]Daryl Caglethere is comedy on the right. Absolutely. People thought Rush Limbaugh was a comedy show. Watch that Greg Gutfeld on, Fox. He is all full of of name calling

[00:16:51]Taylor Jonesbut, but the, the emphasis, you said the magic word there, Daryl name calling.

[00:16:55]Pat ByrnesMirthful Laughter does not make you go out and beat people up. Mirthful laughter makes you go out and hug everybody.

[00:17:01]Pat ByrnesThat's science fiction.

[00:17:02]Daryl CagleThe place where I see this played out is on the radio, because all these morning zoo kind of shows, those are all liberal. But all the talk shows are conservative. And the conservatives don't listen to the morning zoos, and the morning zoo people don't listen to the talk shows. .

[00:17:19]Taylor JonesAs I see it, I'd like to see, Daryl, maybe you've got a slew of them, but for instance, I, I have no trouble making really vicious fun of Joe Biden. I didn't have much trouble making fun of Obama.

[00:17:30]Taylor JonesHave you got a lot of conservative cartoons that are making fun of Trump?

[00:17:33]Daryl CagleThere are a few cartoonists on the right that make fun of Trump. Michael Ramirez, for example.

[00:17:39]Taylor JonesWell, okay.

[00:17:40]Daryl CagleBut, not many. By and large, they don't draw Trump just as, uh, liberal cartoonists didn't draw Hillary.

[00:17:45]Daryl Caglethere are more reasons on the left to dislike Biden for not doing enough that people on the left have a lot of problems with Biden. but when Hillary was running, we didn't see as many Hillary cartoons from the left as we do Biden cartoons now.

[00:17:59]Daryl CagleHere's another Bagley with a nice black and white. How did a nation famous for its music, literature, art, science, and humanities fall for such a malignant clown? Stay tuned, as Trump says, vermin! I like this contrast with the black and white and the color.

[00:18:17]Taylor JonesMm hmm.

[00:18:17]Daryl CagleBecause, Hitler is in

[00:18:19]Daryl Cagleblack and white.

[00:18:19]Taylor JonesRight. Well, that is a good way to put it.

[00:18:21]Daryl CagleThis is our photorealistic, AI cartoonist, Bart Van Leeuwen. I love that little, Trump balloon floating in the window.

[00:18:29]Pat ByrnesNow this whole thing about Trump saying he's never read Mein Kampf.

[00:18:33]Pat ByrnesI believe it. Because Mein Kampf. Was a book.

[00:18:35]Taylor JonesI remember in junior high age, there was always some kid, who would carry around Mein Kampf or the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. And they, they almost, they, they, it'd be so dog eared and they just have it with them all the time.

[00:18:49]Daryl CagleWell, it's a big difference between those two books. I mean, you make different inferences about who's holding it.

[00:18:54]Taylor JonesWell, the thing is that, but still, there was a fascination. There was a fascination for some 14 year olds with Hitler. It's a stage.

[00:19:02]Daryl CagleThere are some people that just like to be confrontational and draw attention to themselves.

[00:19:06]Daryl CagleI put Alex Jones in that category. You know, when I listen to him, I often think he's funny and likable when I listen to him, even though he's so detestable. He's picking and choosing things to draw attention to himself quite successfully. Um, and that was true of a lot of those kids in high school, and a lot of the people that put Nazi stuff on themselves, it's just to get other people upset.

[00:19:29]Taylor JonesOh, I see the, I see a little Trump balloon as well. Is that a standard for?

[00:19:32]Daryl CagleI like that Trump balloon.

[00:19:34]Pat ByrnesEvery day, if you, you know, follow what goes on on Twitter, you see like, wow, how come everyone's saying the same thing?

[00:19:41]Pat ByrnesThey all get their talking points from various, you know, right wing, think tanks. Um.

[00:19:46]Daryl CagleYou know, we don't get talking points. I get email from people that tell me, how terrible it is that I'm using the talking points for my cartoons.

[00:19:54]Daryl CagleAnd, I would like to get the talking points. I don't know where you sign up for that. It'd be interesting to see. I've never heard of a cartoonist who gets talking points.

[00:20:02]Pat ByrnesThey were talking about this cartoon, they were saying that, we have to return this country to the people who built it.

[00:20:07]Pat ByrnesKind of oblivious of the fact that it was built by slaves, They don't like, like, that, that part of the history. They like the keeping them down, but not acknowledging what they did while they were there.

[00:20:17]Daryl CagleHere's one I drew from the previous election. I don't remember why, but I think that Trump was making, Hillary Hitler allusions at that time.

[00:20:25]Daryl CagleTrump is also prone to this stuff. So I have, Trump painting Hillary as Hitler. he certainly

[00:20:31]Pat ByrnesI like the red beret.

[00:20:31]Daryl CagleWas using every hyperbole he could use. Uh, that was before we knew Trump always had a red tie.

[00:20:38]Taylor JonesOh, yeah, right.

[00:20:39]Daryl CagleHere's a John, Cole. Springtime for Donald and the GOP, with our, our Donald Hitler. Here's a Bob Engelhardt. This was also an early one, 2015. I always try to get the cartoonist not to put the years in their cartoons because, a, Trump Hitler cartoon is an evergreen unless they see 2015 and there they think, oh, this is old and stale when it actually never goes stale.

[00:21:03]Daryl CagleHere is Randy Enos, with the President Goose stepping onto the Capitol on January 6th. why do you think he has his finger under his nose?

[00:21:11]Pat ByrnesIt's the, the fake mustache. Oh yes, that's right. That's, that's standard

[00:21:16]Daryl Caglecomedy. Yes, yes. Just the finger. I've got my, I've got my comb.

[00:21:21]Taylor JonesHa ha ha.

[00:21:22]Daryl CagleTrump says, just thought I'd try it out Too over the top fellas? That's Trump with his Hitler mustache.

[00:21:28]Daryl CagleHere's Marion Kamensky from Austria. They know about Hitler in Austria. Here's Marion Kamensky drawing Trump admiring the photo of Hitler on the wall in the Oval Office. Uh.

[00:21:39]Pat ByrnesYou know what would have been nice? I mean, this is, this is, this is real, I don't know, subtle, sly, if it was on the other side. Cause that's where he had the

[00:21:47]Pat ByrnesAndrew Jackson portrait.

[00:21:49]Taylor JonesI like the curtains. He's done a good job drawing the curtains.

[00:21:51]Daryl CagleAndrew Jackson was also quite a vile character with his trail of tears.

[00:21:57]Taylor JonesHe was also a real estate magnate, by the way. No, seriously, seriously. In fact, a lot of Indian lands were bought up and parceled out, you know, to his buddies and sold off,

[00:22:10]Daryl CagleI used to live in Nashville for a while and Andrew Jackson's plantation is a big national monument there and the tourists go to see it and you get to look at all the slave houses and, it's a crazy experience to see him, both, Demonized and lionized in the same spot.

[00:22:28]Daryl CagleWell, you know, more lion, more, much more lionized than demonized.

[00:22:31]Taylor JonesYou know, Daryl, I think that with, with Andrew Jackson and with Thomas Jefferson, I think of them as sort of quintessentially American because they truly represent the both sides that have within, you know, individual people. The, the both sides that have shaped.

[00:22:46]Taylor JonesThe United States from the beginning, from before, in fact, we became a republic. I think with, Trump, he sort of symbolizes that as well. I know that a new president will put, certain, paintings and, busts and what have you in, in the Oval Office.

[00:23:00]Taylor JonesAnd I think having, Jackson there was, was very fitting for Trump, I think Trump is not a diversion from the norm in terms of politics all that much.

[00:23:08]Daryl CagleSo you see Trump as an Andrew Jackson kind of character? Yes. Andrew Jackson also famously, disregarded the rulings of the Supreme Court.

[00:23:15]Taylor JonesCorrect. He was, and he was, well, Trump's doing, way of doing it was to pack the Supreme Court, but nonetheless the same effect, but, but also, uh, basically, a populist and, um, raising the rabble.

[00:23:28]Daryl CagleSo, I threw in a few here from the right. This is a Conservative Cartoonist Rivers, and he shows, the guy wearing a, rainbow unicorn costume pulling off his hat and it's Hitler underneath. The mask comes off. Miss me, says Hitler. And, he's labeled the left wing. They do draw the left wing as Hitler.

[00:23:49]Daryl CagleAnd I would imagine if we asked them, they would have a list of ten reasons why, the metaphor of Hitler fits the left wing. Although it doesn't spring to my mind.

[00:23:59]Taylor JonesWell, I think they missed. Is that they, it'd be better if they, if, if you want them to do that, I think it's better to have Lenin, you know, Vladimir Lenin, instead of a Hitler.

[00:24:06]Pat ByrnesYes, since they call him the left wing communist.

[00:24:09]Taylor Jonesrather than fascist, so.

[00:24:10]Taylor Jonesmaybe I'm, I'm missing something that the right wing is aware of that I'm not. But, wouldn't this particular, uh, unicorn also have a pink triangle on its,

[00:24:20]Daryl CagleOh, I take your point. He's got the rainbow horn.

[00:24:24]Daryl Cagleso in the same way that, that Hitler murdered homosexuals, he's the left wing and he's, I guess, no, it's, I still can't make sense of it.

[00:24:37]Daryl CagleWhy is he, why is he revealing that, he's, Really anti homosexual, as the left wing. No. Now I can't make any sense of it.

[00:24:46]Daryl CagleI'm lost. we need Rivers here. Well,

[00:24:49]Pat ByrnesI'm sure there's a good explanation, just like they can explain "Q".

[00:25:02]Pat ByrnesYeah.

[00:25:02]Daryl CagleI think that's it.

[00:25:03]Daryl CagleI think it's that, simple. Okay, so, here Rivers has, uh, Hitler. You wanna read this one for us, Pat?

[00:25:10]Pat ByrnesIt's a cold read. And it's gonna be a really cold read, given its source, but

[00:25:14]Daryl CagleOkay, well you could do it twice if you want to. I'll cut it out.

[00:25:17]Pat ByrnesListen, you know One take, baby. One take. That's the way I used to get paid the medium sized bucks.

[00:25:22]Pat ByrnesAll we had to do was demonize an identifiable group

[00:25:26]Pat Byrnesthrough the endless propaganda and public

[00:25:30]Pat Byrnesliterally cheer as we arrested them. It's easy to get the masses to ignore evil when you control the narrative to sell it as a good thing. Ditto.

[00:25:42]Daryl CagleDitto says Biden as he's holding a piece of paper that says MAGA problem and the caption reads, history just keeps repeating and repeating and repeating.

[00:25:52]Daryl CagleSo I guess what Rivers is saying here is that, Biden is demonizing the MAGA people in the same way that Hitler was demonizing Jews.

[00:26:02]Taylor JonesWell, I think So.

[00:26:03]Pat Byrnesthey like to demonize, the MSM, mainstream media, they also like to point out is owned and run by people of a certain, heritage.

[00:26:13]Pat ByrnesSo, again, we're kind of back to the pink triangle problem. There's an internal conflict in the logic.

[00:26:21]Daryl CagleI take Taylor's point though, is, they call us Hitler, so we call them Hitler.

[00:26:26]Pat ByrnesMm hmm.

[00:26:27]Daryl CagleYeah. So here's Dick Wright, and he's got the left, who is unattractive and unkempt and overweight, drinking a beer, and he says, These Jews are a real problem! And Hitler says, Gas chambers always worked for me!

[00:26:42]Taylor JonesThis is a good cartoon.

[00:26:43]Daryl CagleYou think so? The left is saying these Jews are a real problem. I assume that's referring to support for the Palestinians?

[00:26:50]Taylor JonesWell, that's, that's where it gets complicated as I see it, the far left and the far right eventually make a circle and just about touch each other.

[00:26:58]Pat ByrnesThey touch butts.

[00:26:58]Taylor JonesRight. And, uh, part of it is, you will find plenty of anti Semitism on the left. Now. Of course, there are many Jews who, for instance, are very, American Jews who are very skeptical of what's happening in Gaza.

[00:27:10]Taylor JonesYou know, they're, they're uneasy about it. And the whole notion by some to equate being anti Israel or say if you're not a hundred percent pro Israel, you're somehow anti Semitic. And of course that's going way too far. But, Dick Wright is correct here that there is, there is plenty of anti Semitism on the left.

[00:27:28]Taylor JonesAnd I think some of it probably is due to historical ignorance.

[00:27:32]Daryl CagleOkay, tell us about this one, Taylor. I should say this is Trump with a rat nest in his head

[00:27:37]Daryl Cagleand it says, speaking of vermin, and of course, vermin is the Nazi Hitler language reference that, Trump has been making. And it's not a word that we really use very much in speaking vocabulary.

[00:27:49]Taylor JonesI was also thinking of New York city with its rat problem and, with all kinds of rats nests appearing all over the city. And, Trump is a New Yorker and, uh, and has all that mass of hair that's mess, messy hair. So it just seemed like an ideal spot for rodents to thrive.

[00:28:07]Daryl CagleThe, demonizing the people you don't like as vermin is very Nazi of him. But, you know, he didn't read Mein Kampf. And this is another lovely one that we had in a previous podcast from you, Taylor. And I think you also drew this in 2015, very early Trump Hitler. And it's a great one.

[00:28:26]Daryl CagleI'm, I'm, it's a beautiful drawing. His hair is beautiful.

[00:28:32]Taylor JonesAnd before everybody started drawing him with small hands,

[00:28:36]Pat ByrnesBut wasn't his name. Allegedly the family name was originally Drumpf.

[00:28:41]Taylor JonesYeah, that's the other thing, "Drumpf."

[00:28:44]Daryl CagleSo here's Ed Wexler and she's got the MAGA gal, she's reading a book and she says, Hmm. Trump told Chief of Staff John Kelly that Hitler did a lot of good things. That's so like him to always look for the good in folks.

[00:28:58]Pat ByrnesTender thoughts. Well, he's a good Christian man. He's a good

[00:29:01]Daryl CagleI've forgotten about this. Was this a quote that you remember?

[00:29:04]Taylor JonesYes.

[00:29:05]Daryl CagleYou do?

[00:29:06]Taylor JonesYeah, I mean, the Kelly quote or what she's saying? Uh, Hitler did a lot of good things. Hitler did a lot of good things? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:12]Taylor JonesYou know, there's so, there's so many big lies being propagated, not simply by Trump and by his adoring fans. And one of them, of course, is that Biden is the worst president in history and, and the economy has never been worse.

[00:29:26]Pat ByrnesThose are daily affirmations on the right.

[00:29:28]Taylor JonesAnd of course, of course, the weak weakness on the world stage. And, uh, it's all a bunch of baloney.

[00:29:35]Daryl CagleMy son has friends who like Trump and he tells me that they say, Trump sent me checks, and we never got checks like that from Biden, and they say I can't get a job, but I could get a job before, and, nobody can afford a house, people do look back and think things were better, and, regardless of whether that's a real comparison, that is what a lot of people

[00:29:59]Taylor Jonesfeel.

[00:29:59]Taylor Jonesthe only thing that matters is what you perceive, you know.

[00:30:02]Bill DayI have this idea of really wondering, Daryl, because you run a syndicate that runs cartoons, but you know that newspapers don't run Trump cartoons.

[00:30:12]Bill DayVery few Trump cartoons, and they they do not run Trump as Hitler cartoons, correct?

[00:30:18]Daryl CagleWell, they do avoid Hitler references and Ku Klux Klan references, and they avoid, bodily fluids. There's, there are things they don't like. I send all of the cartoonists, uh, uh, a list of which, which cartoons are, are popular and being reprinted.

[00:30:34]Daryl CagleAnd those are actually the majority of the cartoons in that top ten. And, that, the majority of the reprints. Uh, but, you know, In the last two years of the Trump administration, we saw that the cartoonists were very motivated to draw Trump and, the newspapers were not printing those cartoons to the great frustration of the cartoonists.

[00:30:53]Daryl CagleYou looked at those lists every week with no Trumps in them, and that was frustrating, but I think now, on this second go round, we're seeing them print more Trumps. Um, I think that was more of a fatigue in the last two years. We'll see if the fatigue sets back in.

[00:31:08]Taylor JonesOh, Daryl, has anybody, has anybody yet drawn a cartoon of Hitler peeing?

[00:31:12]Daryl CagleThey don't print peeing, Taylor. They just don't print peeing. You know, cartoonists love to draw peeing. They love to draw spitting and sweating and blood and snot and vomit. they just love all of that. those are probably all words that, uh, get us ticked down on, on YouTube. So I need to take that out.

[00:31:41]Daryl CagleIt's a very serious reciprocity going on, both in the numbers of Hitler's and the passion for it. Yeah.

[00:31:49]Pat ByrnesSo, my question is, in Germany, I, I, I heard about some woman who became a German citizen. And the first thing she did, uh, as a new citizen of modern Germany was to renounce the Holocaust. And, and basically renounce that part of Germany's past and to affirm that, you know, never again.

[00:32:12]Pat ByrnesIf this drift toward fascism happens in the U. S. There are going to be a lot of broken souls. There are going to be a lot of, people who are going to find themselves committing to extreme evil, even as they tell themselves they're good church going people. And, there's going to be a point at which the fever breaks and they're going to be like wholly bodily fluid or bodily solid.

[00:32:37]Pat ByrnesWhat have I done?

[00:32:39]Daryl CagleHow many years you've been saying that, Pat?

[00:32:41]Pat ByrnesWholly bodily solid?

[00:32:43]Daryl CagleNo, I mean, they're gonna see the light and see how wrong they were. How many years you've been saying that?

[00:32:49]Pat ByrnesThey're not going to see it anytime soon. They're not going to see it, but things are getting darker and darker and the commitment is getting deeper and deeper and people are saying more and more things that are actually in favor of killing their neighbor.

[00:33:02]Pat ByrnesYou know, we're getting ready to visit. Well, you know, we settle these things with guns

[00:33:07]Bill Dayin Florida. There is a movement led by Ron DeSantis is to deny that slavery was a real problem. In fact, he's been having books removed from public libraries and from school libraries that mentioned slavery. You know, he's denying history, . he also said that slavery wasn't all that bad because slavery taught the slaves certain skills that they were able to use once they were free. So it wasn't that bad. So, that's what's going on in Florida.

[00:33:39]Taylor JonesDaryl, I'd like to, can I make two comments? One, something I've been saying for a long time, and the other just a comment about the cartoons today.

[00:33:49]Taylor JonesThe first is that, I don't accuse people of being racist because my feeling is if I want to accuse somebody of being a racist, I got to look in the mirror first. It's not like I haven't had racist thoughts or made racist comments or laughed at a racist joke in my life. But saying that, I also think that American politics and history are all about race.

[00:34:07]Taylor JonesThat's all they've ever been about. and what's happening now is just further reflection of that. And I think Trump's movement is all about race. Uh, and, uh, the other, the other thing I would say is that you might want to, you might want to cut this part out.

[00:34:20]Taylor JonesI'm not going to say anything bad, I'm not going to discuss bodily functions, but I think, I think this is, this is my fourth or fifth podcast with you. And it seems to me this is, these cartoons, it's been hard, it's been a little bit hard for us to comment on some of these cartoons about Hitler and Hitler and making associations with Trump because the cartoons kind of say it all and it's, I, I kind of think in some ways we've sort of been fumbling a bit for words.

[00:34:45]Taylor JonesI, I know I have been, in a way that it's been easier some ways to comment on some of the other cartoons in other podcasts.

[00:34:53]Daryl CagleYeah, let me say something in defense of Trump. I think that he kind of becomes like a no pest strip where all the things we don't like kind of stick to him and you can find a reason for why they're sticking to him.

[00:35:06]Daryl CagleAnd, That's a little bit unfair. I mean, there's implications that he's anti semitic. I don't, I don't think there's any of that there, you know, Ivanka and Jared are Jewish. He's from New York. I mean, not everything we don't like is Trump. But, enough to make us, uh, busy cartoonists.

[00:35:24]Pat ByrnesThere's a lot not to like there and I got to take issue with one teeny little thing that Taylor said that it's There's this this strain that says it's all about race I think it's a little bit more we got to give some credit that there's more diversity than that. It's also about misogyny That's been a little bit more subdued.

[00:35:44]Pat ByrnesBut but They're multifaceted they're,

[00:35:46]Taylor Jonesat least, they're too, they're too fast. Well, of course, the misogyny isn't, isn't, isn't unique to the United States, of course. Uh,

[00:35:52]Pat Byrnesbut, uh Okay, all right, all right, fine. Yeah, well, the unique thing, then, will be, will be

[00:35:56]Taylor JonesAnd by the way, race has done so much for American culture. there's probably been no greater marriage, cultural marriage than between the, Western canon of music and the African voice.

[00:36:08]Taylor JonesYou know, in terms of what it's done for the world in terms of culture, there's so much richness that have come and it's all on display in the United States. And that's something we can be extremely proud of. but it's all that it's, it's through that prism of race. All of it. My feeling.

[00:36:25]Pat ByrnesAnd you talked about the, the, the 1960s and I, that's when I was growing up in Detroit it was right. There was Motown. Motown was the hope, the hope of a possible future. And it was the most hopeful cultural movement in my lifetime, as evidenced by the fact that you get anybody together for the most important event in their lives, and they got the band playing, and what gets everybody out on the dance floor at every single wedding reception, but Motown.

[00:36:53]Pat ByrnesIf we could reconnect with that part of our soul and realize that this mix, which we used to proudly call a melting pot, is the source of our cultural richness, and that's what makes America great.

[00:37:05]Taylor JonesYeah, well, it's, it's, it's there. It's there. It isn't gone. You know, it's just, uh, uh, just bring it back, baby.

[00:37:10]Daryl CagleOkay, gentlemen, that's it for Trump Hitler.

[00:37:13]Daryl CagleAnd everybody remember to subscribe to the Caglecast wherever you're watching or listening today. Come back again, go to Cagle.Com and subscribe and see all of the cartoons. And, thank you so much for being here with us, gentlemen. Thank you.

[00:37:28]Taylor JonesGreat. Good to see y'all. Good to meet. Good to meet you, Bill and

[00:37:31]Taylor JonesPat.

[00:37:32]Daryl CagleNice to meet you too. See you guys next time. We'll have you back. Terrific. See y'all.