Global Warming Cartoons! Our Political Cartoonists debate Climate Change Through Their Cartoons!

Daryl Cagle interviews three brilliant editorial cartoonists, Pat Bagley, Graeme MacKay, and Rod Emmerson, about climate change. They discuss various climate change-related topics, including the denial of climate change, the role of fossil fuels, the impact of climate change on wildlife, the need for action, and the challenges faced by politicians in addressing climate change.

Editorial cartoonists Pat Bagley, Graeme MacKay, and Rod Emmerson discuss climate change with Daryl Cagle in this episode of the Caglecast. They share their cartoons and their thoughts on the denial of climate change, the role of fossil fuels, and the need for action. The cartoonists highlight the impact of climate change on wildlife, the challenges of transitioning to renewable energy, and the importance of public awareness. They also touch on the role of politicians and the need for global cooperation.

The brilliant, award winning cartoonists emphasize the urgency of addressing climate change and the need for collective action. The cartoonists also discuss the impact of climate change in the places where they live, Utah, Canada and New Zealand. They criticize the lack of action from certain countries and leaders. The conversation concludes with a call to continue drawing climate change cartoons to raise awareness and inspire change.

Pat Bagley: Award-winning editorial cartoonist for the Salt Lake Tribune since 1979. Winner of the Herblock Award.
Graeme MacKay: Brilliant cartoonist for the Hamilton Spectator in Ontario, Canada. Winner of multiple awards.
Rod Emmerson: Cartoonist for the New Zealand Herald since 2003. Winner of two Australian Stanley Awards for Best Editorial Cartoonist of the Year.

Timestamp Summary
00:00:00 Introduction of cartoonists and topic of climate change
00:01:08 Discussion about cartoons depicting the world burning
00:02:07 Conversation about Europe's reliance on Russian oil
00:02:34 Doubts about the effectiveness of carbon credits
00:04:02 Humorous cartoon about climate change and s'mores
00:04:58 Discussion of a complex budget cartoon
00:06:30 Extreme weather events in New Zealand
00:07:43 Impact of climate change on New Zealand's weather
00:08:11 Denial of climate change and its portrayal in cartoons
00:08:42 Cartoon depicting the poaching of the Earth
00:08:32 Cookbook for poaching the earth
00:09:03 Cartoon on Republicans denying climate change
00:09:41 Utah legislature influenced by oil and gas industry
00:10:55 Cartoon on right-wing Christians and climate change
00:11:27 Cartoon on Republicans prioritizing money over the future
00:12:41 Lack of focus on climate change in American politics
00:13:34 Discussion on Russia's contribution to climate change
00:14:19 Release of methane gases from melting permafrost
00:15:03 Cartoon on denial of extreme heat
00:15:53 Exxon's knowledge of climate change in the 1970s
00:17:09 Wildfires in Canada causing orange sky in Milwaukee
00:17:42 Prevailing winds and climate change's long-term effects
00:19:08 Unusual weather events: floods, heatwaves, and rainstorms
00:19:49 Decline in bird and insect populations
00:21:48 Transition to renewable energy and its challenges
00:23:13 Oil companies' presence at COP conferences
00:23:56 Short-term focus of politicians and their inaction on climate
00:24:55 Trudeau's Liberal Party and carbon tax carve-outs
00:25:40 Trudeau's change in stance on carbon tax
00:26:01 Political opportunism and impact on climate change efforts
00:26:01 Justin Trudeau's carbon tax policy causing trouble in Canada
00:26:59 Conservative Pierre Pauliev lacks policy on climate change
00:28:18 Parallels between COVID deniers and climate change deniers
00:29:02 Mistrust for science is largely on the right of the spectrum
00:29:42 Editorial cartoonists are better pundits than columnists
00:31:44 Trump's promise to bring back coal was not realized
00:32:13 Coal is still being used in poor countries like India
00:33:32 Cartoonists receive complex cartoon ideas but are lazy
00:34:33 People blame government for climate change but resist individual action
00:35:06 Cartoon about COVID recession, climate change, and biodiversity collapse
00:35:06 Cartoon waves representing COVID recession, climate change, and biodiversity collapse.
00:35:25 Cartoonist noticed people adding their own waves to the cartoon.
00:36:13 Cartoonist repossessed the cartoon and added the biodiversity collapse wave.
00:37:19 Alien invasion suggested as a possible fifth wave.
00:37:28 Cartoon depicting big banks as the octopus and their hypocrisy.
00:38:02 Cartoonist criticizes politicians' hypocrisy on climate change.
00:38:47 Cartoonist highlights Justin Trudeau's lack of action on emissions.
00:39:32 Cartoonist criticizes conservative politicians' opposition to carbon taxes.
00:40:21 Cartoonist mocks conspiracy theories denying climate change.
00:42:14 Cartoonist depicts the penguin on a melting iceberg, symbolizing climate change.
00:43:36 Cartoonist references 2001 Space Odyssey to illustrate climate change skepticism.
00:44:26 Cartoonist highlights the lack of storm water infrastructure for climate change.
00:44:13 Storm water infrastructure required for climate change
00:46:08 EVs running up against dairy and beef industry
00:47:30 Dairy industry's opposition to climate change laws and EV incentives
00:49:53 Military helmet with "born to save the planet"
00:50:27 Despot regimes' indifference to climate change
00:51:09 Putin's bruised ego as a threat to civilization
00:51:55 Former PM John Key's poor contribution to greenhouse gases
00:52:26 Greta Thunberg declaring climate emergency
00:52:37 Polar bear holding up arms of unknown individuals
00:53:11 Conclusion and thanks for watching

Transcript:

[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHi, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the Caglecast, where we're all about political cartoons, and today we have three brilliant editorial cartoonists talking about climate change. Pat Bagley has been the brilliant cartoonist for the Salt Lake Tribune in Utah since 1979. Pat has won a ton of awards, including the Herblock Award, and he's a shining star in our profession.

[00:00:23]Daryl CagleGreat to have you here, Pat. Thanks for having me on. Graeme MacKay is the brilliant cartoonist for the Hamilton Spectator in Ontario, Canada, and he's won a ton of awards too. It's great to have you here, Graeme.

[00:00:34]Daryl CagleThanks for having me. Rod Emerson is the brilliant cartoonist for the New Zealand Herald since 2003, and before that he was an Australian cartoonist, and he's won tons of awards too, including two Australian Stanley Awards for Best Editorial Cartoonist of the Year. Great to have you here, Rod.

[00:00:52]Rod EmmersonA treat to be here, Darryl.

[00:00:53]Rod EmmersonFantastic.

[00:00:54]Daryl CagleOkay, Pat. You've got two aliens in space coming down, looking at our burning world, throwing away their invasion plans because they just wanna watch the world burn and wanna ask, did you bring the popcorn? It is quite a show. Seeing the world burn

[00:01:08]Pat Bagleywell, and we're doing it to ourselves.

[00:01:09]Pat BagleyThey, they've got, we just have to sit back and watch.

[00:01:12]Daryl CagleYes, we are. Here you've got another popcorn cartoon. , popcorn really works in a cartoon. You've got the farmer in his field of corn. He's talking on the phone and says, If it doesn't get any hotter, I think we can save the crop. And all the popcorn pops.

[00:01:25]Daryl CagleAnd he's sitting in a sea of popcorn. He says it got hotter. This is a very funny cartoon.

[00:01:31]Pat BagleyThis is from 2012.

[00:01:32]Daryl CagleWe've had 11 years of getting hotter since then, and it really has gotten hotter.

[00:01:37]Rod EmmersonOh, yes.

[00:01:38]Daryl CagleGraham!

[00:01:39]Graeme MacKayYes?

[00:01:39]Daryl CagleHere you got a couple of guys at the docks, the big ship is, offloading saplings and the, EU guy says, oh thank goodness you've arrived with your oil and gas, we're so desperate to end our reliance on Russia.

[00:01:51]Daryl CagleAnd, uh, the guy from the ship says, oil and gas, we brought you carbon offsets, this is Europe, isn't it? Oh, well that's a disturbing but... Yeah, real sounding

[00:02:01]Daryl Caglecartoon. A bit cheeky. This was during the whole time when they're, looking for oil and they're reliant on Russian oil.

[00:02:07]Daryl CagleAnd it was kind of funny for us in North America to look at the poor Europeans who are kind of like the preachy ones. With climate change, and all of a sudden, they're desperate for the old fossil fuels, and yeah, let's give them some saplings, let's just show them.

[00:02:20]Daryl CagleWell, fossil fuels are a short term urgency as the world burns and all the bad guys are making their money on oil.

[00:02:29]Daryl CagleIt's tough to look past the short term problem to the long term problem.

[00:02:34]Rod EmmersonI don't know if that carbon credits is working either, to be honest.

[00:02:37]Daryl CagleIt does sound kind of crazy, carbon credits to me. You mean like the cap

[00:02:41]Graeme MacKayand trade kind of thing where they're like switching? Yeah, and not a lot of transparency.

[00:02:46]Rod EmmersonYes, well, I, I have serious doubts that the system is actually working. There's been a, thorough investigation by Four Corners in Australia recently into carbon credits trading in Papua New Guinea.

[00:02:59]Rod EmmersonAnd they discovered that, one area of forest that was, part of the trading scheme was actually being forested by the locals. and the whole concept of the trading scheme is for the locals to actually benefit financially from it, so they don't actually cut down trees. And here they were in the middle of a, um, carbon credits forest with the sound of chainsaws humming in the background.

[00:03:20]Daryl CagleThat's crazy. I remember all the complaints the conservatives had about, Al Gore flying on the private jets and Al Gore's answer was, But I buy these carbon offsets. And, uh, that just is not very satisfying as an explanation. No, it doesn't

[00:03:35]Rod Emmersonwork, does it?

[00:03:35]Graeme MacKayNo, but it makes really great ridicule though, because you see these rich people jet to these COP conferences and things like that and, the, the hypocrisy even for those of us who really believe that there's a climate crisis.

[00:03:46]Graeme MacKayI mean, you think it's the natural stuff for the, the right wingers

[00:03:49]Daryl CagleGraeme, here's another one from you. You've got, the world burning as a s'more, a s'more of apathy and fossil fuel reliance. This is really very funny. There's something about s'mores that's great for a cartoon.

[00:04:02]Pat BagleyThe drawing is lovely. That's

[00:04:04]Graeme MacKayjust amazing. Thank you. I mean fire is a tricky thing to draw and I'm looking at it now and I'm thinking there's something not very convincing about it.

[00:04:11]Graeme MacKayBut I guess this cartoon came out when there was all kinds of forest fires happening and it was a summertime cartoon so naturally we Canadians we love to get out. To our great outdoors and make these s'mores. And so I guess this time it was just perfect in July. You know?

[00:04:27]Daryl CagleVery good. Okay, Rod, I have to read these because we are also an audio podcast.

[00:04:33]Daryl CagleBut I am not going to, do the Accent. Just out of respect.

[00:04:38]Graeme MacKayUm, I'm

[00:04:39]Daryl Cagleon. So I'd love to hear it. Would you

[00:04:43]Rod Emmersonlike?

[00:04:43]Daryl CagleWould you like me to? How about you read this one? Give us a good accent.

[00:04:48]Rod EmmersonOkay, so what's happening here is that we've got a pretty crowded cartoon, and it's budget time. This is the harsh reality off of the climate crisis.

[00:04:58]Rod EmmersonRight? all things still have to go forward. So we have the government. About to formulate a budget. For the next 12 months. I have the prime minister of New Zealand, the former prime minister, I should say, he was outed in the election a few weeks back, Chris Hipkins, at an ATM in the street, and he's saying "More?".

[00:05:16]Rod Emmersonand beside him is, Cyclone Gabriel, who's dressed like a street girl, and she's coughing. Look at her, looking at her nails. and to his right, we have the mayor of Auckland, who's quite a gruff sort of guy, takes no prisoners when he talks and he says, yes, and don't try and short change me, mate.

[00:05:34]Rod EmmersonAnd in the person standing beside

[00:05:36]Daryl Caglethe mayor, this is so complicated with all these people that nobody knows. You

[00:05:41]Rod Emmersonneed to have this because these are all that these are all the aspects of a budget, all these things come into play. we've also got a woman asking about groceries, a little help with the groceries, because there's been, cost of living crisis as has everybody else, we've had inflation, but we've also had greed inflation, where people continue to push prices up unnecessarily just to test the public's tolerance. And then to the far right, I've got a polar bear saying, and don't forget about me, climate change.

[00:06:12]Daryl CagleWell, I tell you, in this cartoon, I did recognize the polar bear.

[00:06:19]Rod EmmersonI went to a lot of trouble, just, just in

[00:06:23]Daryl Caglecase, just in case you're here's another one of yours that I understood. You've got the couple standing in Auckland. And,

[00:06:30]Rod Emmersonthis is quite important because,

[00:06:31]Daryl CagleWait, I should say, he says, wow, the first monsoon season and we were there the monsoon looks like a giant, screaming skull of climate change and, climate change for you in New Zealand means it rains all the time.

[00:06:44]Rod Emmersonand it's raining now, to be honest. And what we, what happened, that brought about this cartoon is we had a horrific, weather event at the beginning of this year. And it was. A sort of thing that you would expect to see in the tropics, and it absolutely devastated Auckland and surrounding areas, including down on our east coast.

[00:07:06]Rod EmmersonAnd there are photographs that, that need to be seen to be believed with cars, buried in up to three or four meters of silt. From the rain we've had, two major weather events this year, but on top of that, and this is the real killer on top of that, we've had two separate weeks of straight sunshine.

[00:07:27]Rod EmmersonThe rest of it has been for the rest of the year has been nothing but rain drizzle, the odd storm here and there, a bit of hail. It's just been amazing. It's been amazing.

[00:07:36]Graeme MacKayIs this, these, these catastrophic, uh, monsoon events or have you ever seen anything like this before in your

[00:07:43]Rod Emmersonlife? Never. No.

[00:07:43]Rod EmmersonNot like this. Nothing like this. this is, weather you would expect to see in the tropics. And of course, and this year was also our warmest year ever on record.

[00:07:53]Graeme MacKayWell, I'm just saying here, it counters kind of the ones on the denier side, saying, Oh, we've always had these big storms, and hurricanes, and monsoons, there's nothing new about it,

[00:08:03]Daryl Caglebut...

[00:08:03]Daryl CagleDo you get a sense that the deniers are kind of going quiet, as now, in the last couple of years, the climate change is much more obvious?

[00:08:11]Graeme MacKayNo. I think they're louder.

[00:08:12]Rod EmmersonNot at all.

[00:08:13]Rod EmmersonNot at all. They're getting louder, yeah. Getting louder.

[00:08:16]Daryl CagleI've noticed it in cartoons. I'm not seeing the denial... cartoons like I used to, from the Conservatives.

[00:08:22]Graeme MacKayI think you are finally waking up. you think of the Kyoto Protocol, that goes back to what, 1992? So there's been enough, decades passing that we should be getting used to this already.

[00:08:32]Daryl CagleHere Pat has the Serve Humankind cookbook with how to cook the poached earth. it is kind of a recipe for poaching, isn't it?

[00:08:42]Daryl CagleUh, with the earth like an egg, with the hot sun and the flood,

[00:08:46]Pat BagleyThere's the old, uh, Twilight Zone episode, of, again, the aliens coming and they bring this book and we translate it, and it says, How to Serve Mankind. And, so, people are getting on the spaceship to go to the aliens planet, and somebody comes running up and they said, It's a cookbook!

[00:09:03]Daryl CagleSo here we have, liar, liar, pants on fire, uh, Republican elephant saying climate change is a hoax as he's wearing his money shirt, his pants are quite on fire, and he's hugging oil and gas, the cute chick. picking his pocket. wonderful cartoon.

[00:09:18]Pat BagleyWell, and this is a kind of a local cartoon as well, because the Utah legislature is in the pocket of oil and gas and oil and gas brings in about 3 billion dollars to the Utah economy.

[00:09:28]Pat BagleyMeanwhile, recreation, tourism, skiing, all that kind of stuff brings in 13 billion. So they should be paying attention to where their money is really coming from. But The thing about oil and gas, which I gotta say, they know who to bribe.

[00:09:41]Daryl CagleI thought this was a very funny cartoon you don't really see many cartoons about, snake handling crazy Christians and, I think that's great for cartoons. Makes me laugh. So you've got the Pope holding the fragile earth while the crazy Climate change denial snake handlers.

[00:10:00]Daryl CagleThey say don't mind him. He's just some lefty kook. I Laughed out loud at this one

[00:10:04]Pat BagleyI'm glad you liked it. A lot of these right wing Christians in congress are just snake handlers,

[00:10:11]Daryl Cagleyou've got the, the fossil fuels guy, with his magnifying glass burning up the earth.

[00:10:16]Pat BagleyAgain, it's just, it's just about money. money is the root of all Republicans. They don't care if it, kills their children's future. There you go. They have to make the money right now.

[00:10:26]Daryl CagleThey do. And I love this composition. The composition makes me laugh.

[00:10:30]Rod EmmersonIt's clever. It's extremely clever. Um, because really, when you draw a cartoon, it tends to start top left hand corner for reading top left hand corner, running a line straight down to the bottom right hand corner where there's usually the signature.

[00:10:42]Daryl CagleI should add, this cartoon is basically three circles, top left, middle, and lower right, in a diagonal from upper left to lower right, which is very, simple and bold, the composition just makes

[00:10:54]Rod Emmersonme laugh as well.

[00:10:55]Rod EmmersonYeah, but it's a straight line, and it works so quickly. Oh, thank you. I love it,

[00:11:01]Daryl Cagleyeah. So here you've got Peppy, the internet frog, and he's sitting in the climate crisis, bowl, boiling with all of his other animal friends, and he says, this is fine, like that other internet character that sits in the fire.

[00:11:14]Daryl CagleDoes he have a name? The dog. . The dog. The dog, yeah. The dog that sits in the fire and says, this is fine. Uhhuh. . . That's a, that's a, that's a koala.

[00:11:22]Rod EmmersonThat's a koala you've got there.

[00:11:24]Daryl CagleYeah. Yes. A koala penguin and a lobster.

[00:11:27]Pat BagleyThis is what, 2000? I can't see it. 2000. But this is before the fires that they had in Australia that, were so, so devastating to the koalas, to the wildlife.

[00:11:35]Daryl CagleHere you have more frogs in a pot. Of course, when you, cook frog with the heat coming up slowly in a pot, they just stay in the pot and they cook like we all do with climate change. And, they're all saying it's hot. And Representative Chris Stewart says, I want that one to testify at my climate change hearings.

[00:11:55]Daryl CagleI assume this is a bad congressman you've got?

[00:11:57]Pat BagleyYeah, Chris Stewart is actually, he was my congressman until he retired. And he retired because he said he had to take care of his sick wife. And then it turns out, a couple weeks ago, we find out that he's opening up a, lobbying firm in Washington, D.

[00:12:09]Pat BagleyC.

[00:12:09]Daryl CagleThey get a big paycheck from, K Street, when they quit. It's the thing to do. It's their retirement plan.

[00:12:15]Pat BagleyBut there's also this thing that the Republicans do, where they get their experts testifying before Congress, and they're always kooks. They're always, frauds.

[00:12:23]Pat Bagleybut they say, no, these people are experts.

[00:12:25]Daryl CagleHere's Pepe again. he's burning in the climate change pot. And he says, Hunter Biden's laptop. That is so true. The problem is that we draw them and they don't get reprinted in newspapers that are all focused on the issue of the day, because climate change is a constant issue.

[00:12:41]Graeme MacKayAnd as a Canadian who observes, American politics in the most politest way, I watched, a recent town hall with all those Republicans up and not, One question was raised, this was the CNN, uh, town hall, that there was not one question directed to them about climate change, I don't know, maybe that was the agreed upon thing with the Republican candidate.

[00:13:01]Graeme MacKayNo talking about climate change. We must just talk about, you know, Biden's laptop and that sort of thing.

[00:13:07]Daryl CagleI think you've got Russia fueled by oil and you've got the Middle East burning and it's all fueled by oil.

[00:13:14]Daryl CagleAnd it seems like oil is in the countries that are the worst problems in the world. And, America producing more oil would just be the worst lower their income of all the places in the world that cause so much trouble right now. I think that's a good argument for, uh, let's put it off until later and suffer a few more degrees but, , there's always gonna be something urgent.

[00:13:34]Rod EmmersonRussia's contribution is greater than oil and gas. You know, what's not taken into the equation is the tundra, the permafrost, their permafrost, Russia's permafrost has been slowly, but surely melting and warming. And as it does that, it releases. Insurmountable amounts of, methane gases into the atmosphere.

[00:13:54]Rod EmmersonThis is all, none of this is included in any, climate, equations

[00:13:59]Daryl Cagleat all. There, there's also, Canada's permafrost and Alaska's permafrost.

[00:14:05]Rod EmmersonYeah. We're going to talk about Canada.

[00:14:07]Graeme MacKayNo,

[00:14:16]Rod Emmersonbut that's quite true. And it's very worrying that one.

[00:14:19]Graeme MacKayOh, absolutely. it's not just the permafrost, it's any kind of, um, digging up of, of green space or green belt.

[00:14:25]Graeme MacKayYou're going to get a massive release of methane into the atmosphere. And, and that's all chemistry, and it's beyond their, heads, you know, it's just too complex for them to wrap their heads around. Fossil fuels are an easy target to go to, obviously, especially Russian fossil

[00:14:39]Daryl Cagleeasy, and, legitimate, as we're looking at wars all the time that are funded by the oil. But those are not the arguments that you hear the conservatives making, by and large. Right now, they're not even spending any time arguing this. They just talk about other subjects.

[00:14:53]Daryl CaglePrecisely. So, uh, Pat, you've got the homeless guy politicized silence, as the homeless guy in, in Los Angeles, nobody paying attention to his crazy rantings.

[00:15:03]Pat BagleyWell, I mean, this was during a heat wave in Los Angeles where it got up to 110, I think it was 2010 that I did this or maybe 2000.

[00:15:12]Pat Bagleybut the right wing always brings out these people who deny the obvious. So this homeless, person, is dressed in several layers of clothing. And he's just denying the obvious truth that it's really

[00:15:23]Daryl Caglehot. It is really hot. Okay, here you've got Exxon, Exxon Climate Scientists, and uh, the Exxon executive says, we see your department going in a different direction, with, there's a trap door underneath them about to drop them down, like the Three Stooges or something.

[00:15:39]Daryl CagleThat's, that's very

[00:15:40]Pat Bagleyfunny. So Exxon was studying climate change back in the 1970s. And the scientist actually said, this is going to be bad. And, they could have done the right thing and, alerted people to what was going on. Instead they buried it.

[00:15:53]Daryl CagleHere you've got the lemonade stand, kids selling lemonade, 25 cents. You've got the climate denial, Kool Aid stand with the elephant that Republican that says, I drank it all because it's not hot out and I wasn't really

[00:16:07]Pat Bagleythirsty.

[00:16:08]Pat BagleyI guess this is the right wing

[00:16:10]Daryl Cagledenying reality. They do. here you have for a record heat with the, what I assume is another, elephant sticking his head in the ground like an Australian ostrich and, he's not seeing global warming. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

[00:16:25]Graeme MacKayYou know, being in Canada, those things work well because we have freezing cold temperatures here and when you mention global warming in the depths of February, it's sort of like this thing that's easy for the deniers to cling on and say, Oh, global warming and it's like minus, you know, 30 degrees Celsius outside.

[00:16:43]Graeme MacKayYou know, back in the, back in the early part of this century, that was a good gag for me to use. But, it kind of looks old nowadays, when you, when you're in the depths of winter and you're complaining about, uh, or arguing that climate change is not real.

[00:16:56]Daryl CagleWell, also, it's cold up there, so one might think that a couple of degrees of warming wouldn't bother you guys, but it seems to just set everything on fire.

[00:17:04]Daryl CagleWell, exactly.

[00:17:05]Graeme MacKayIt's just the extremes. Extremes are not good. And we're seeing a lot more here. So... In

[00:17:09]Pat BagleyJuly, I was in Milwaukee. And, the air was just incredibly cloudy. And it was because of the wildfires up in

[00:17:16]Graeme MacKayCanada. Yes, it was all Canada's fault. How many times I saw lots of great gags about Canada causing, and I, I don't know why because we always have fires up here.

[00:17:27]Graeme MacKayIt's just, this was a phenomenon that I've never seen. I don't think anyone else has seen, you know, the orange sky over Manhattan. And it kept going through the whole summer. So there's an anomaly at play there. I don't think it was any worse than any other year when it came to forest fires in Canada.

[00:17:42]Graeme MacKayIt was just a. The way the prevailing winds were going, and I think you could probably point that back to the long term effects of climate change.

[00:17:50]Daryl CagleWell, it it lasted for months with the smoke over the United States. The smoke over the United States is what gets it into the media. and it seemed quite different to me.

[00:17:59]Graeme MacKayIt was different. And again, immediately you had people coming out and saying that they were caused by eco crazy people who are causing all these fires and setting them deliberately, by, uh, people are trying to make a point that we've got to do something about climate change because the world is burning and the forests in Canada are burning.

[00:18:17]Graeme MacKayBut I think in some instances that was actually happening. There were some, fires that were deliberately being set. You would have to have an orchestrated thing happening across the country for that, and I, I really highly doubt, that was happening, but, but nice try on the, deniers playing the blame

[00:18:32]Daryl Cagleso, Pat, you've got two woolly mammoths holding a sign saying global warming is a hoax as they're looking at the bleached bones of another Woolly mammoth that has a sign that says global warming is a hoax and one says to the other one I could just see those climate alarmists spinning this

[00:18:47]Pat BagleyGetting back to Florida and Canada, I think it was just a couple years ago that in British Columbia there were entire cities that were destroyed by fires because again, it got up to a hundred and ten hundred degrees the other side of that is if you look at the news from Mecca It's not even be at last week in Saudi Arabia had these Rainstorms and you see these cars being put away in Mecca.

[00:19:08]Pat BagleyYeah, because of all the water there. This is not normal. This doesn't happen all the time. I mean, you're not supposed to get thousand year floods every single year. You get them every thousand years. We're seeing thousand year floods all the time. We're seeing thousand year heat waves all the time. this just isn't normal.

[00:19:26]Daryl CagleHere's the earth, looking at a dead bird in a bird cage and it says, Newest item, one third of the world's birds have disappeared. This is a fantastic thing that I noticed. There really are less birds outside and, less insects. I remember as a kid, we would take a road trip and there would be a bunch of dead insects on the grill of the car or splattering on the windshield.

[00:19:49]Daryl CagleThat doesn't happen anymore. We don't get dead insects on the windshield or on the grill of the car. that's a, that's a fantastic change in the world that's just overlooked because people don't think about it.

[00:20:00]Pat BagleyAs a child, we would travel from Oceanside, California to Salt Lake City. We're going to Las Vegas. And, you know, every a hundred miles or so, we'd have to stop at a gas station just to wipe all the insects off the car.

[00:20:14]Pat BagleyAnd now you go down there and nothing. There's just nothing.

[00:20:16]Rod EmmersonThat's a great cartoon, Pat. Um, the canary in the coal mine dead in the cage. Yeah, it's brilliant.

[00:20:23]Graeme MacKayit looks a lot like a, a herb block kind of cartoon 'cause he used to do that with the, the eyes and the nose on the globe.

[00:20:29]Daryl CagleAs you see here! Pat draws lots of, uh, weather map cartoons, which I think are just great fun. Weather maps, weather maps are really pretty funny. And, so here you've got the weather map with the warming oceans, the great garbage, spot, the monster El Nino, the drought in California, and, the poor guy in Utah who can't see anything because of the smoke from the northwest burning rainforest.

[00:20:52]Daryl CagleThis is a great cartoon. All in there. Yeah, it is. It all shows up on the weather map,

[00:20:56]Daryl CagleSo here we've got, uh, oil and gas dinosaurs looking at the giant asteroid of, solar coming down to crush, coal, oil, and gas, and, the gas has gas. I like that .

[00:21:08]Rod EmmersonOh, I did. It does toot. I just noticed that

[00:21:13]Pat BagleyYeah. Nice little fart jokes that make it.

[00:21:16]Daryl CagleWe have moved on to Graham. Graham, this is a fun cartoon. I like this one. Uh, here you've got, uh, solar facing off against petroleum.

[00:21:25]Daryl Cagleand in a big tableau, face to face. This is, this is a great cartoon. Yeah, it's

[00:21:30]Graeme MacKayjust showing, showing the battle. This was actually drawn for a, uh, Middle Eastern based company that I do the occasional work for, so there's an essay that goes along with this. And, it's just, it's just sort of, without any words, really, it just sort of, shows the face off between the good and the evil, I guess.

[00:21:48]Graeme MacKayThe, where we are, with fossil fuels on the right and where we're trying to head, on the left to, that utopia that is the, gasless future that's gonna energize us.

[00:21:59]Pat Bagleybut it's not, it's not really a utopia.

[00:22:01]Graeme MacKayNo,

[00:22:03]Pat Bagleyno. The poorest country in Western Europe, Portugal, is 70 percent renewables.

[00:22:08]Pat BagleyIt's got dams, it's got solar, it's got the wind. So if the poorest country in Europe, well, in Western Europe, can do this, we could do it if we chose to, but it's a policy decision. We choose not to do this.

[00:22:20]Graeme MacKayBut you, you have a hybrid kind of system. I was in California and I saw plenty of, solar farms, that were all over the place.

[00:22:27]Graeme MacKayOver on this side, we have a lot of, uh, wind farms. and that in itself caused a lot of grievance for people because it chops up a lot of, birds and other animals are, are affected by these things. So it's, you know, it's, you have to somehow fuel humanity. And unfortunately... it's kind of a better approach than, I guess, spewing, carbon into the atmosphere, so.

[00:22:45]Pat Bagleywe're getting there. We're,

[00:22:46]Rod Emmersonwe're learning. Yeah, unfortunately gas is seen as the transition, power, isn't it? And it's probably one of the worst.

[00:22:52]Daryl CagleHere you have COP 27, again, COP that we forget what it stands for, but we just... It's in the news one day when they come out with a statement, it has people talking about...

[00:23:03]Daryl Cagleclimate change on that one day, and, so here you've taken the letters of COP and, and, and demonstrated all these bad things, the money for the big companies, and the, uh... That was

[00:23:13]Graeme MacKayhere, and I think that, because it was a, there was a noticeable difference from previous COPs, that there was a huge, representation of the oil companies that were at this, and they were almost outnumbering the, you know, the activists, the scientists who were there to, you know, promote their, uh, Whatever they're doing, uh, greenwashing or whatever they're doing in their respective

[00:23:32]Daryl Caglecompanies.

[00:23:33]Daryl CagleThey're just mugging and smiling, putting on a show and not doing much of anything as they greenwash over the issue.

[00:23:39]Rod EmmersonGreat drawing, by the way.

[00:23:40]Daryl CagleThanks. It's a culture of parties. Here, it looks like COP26 was in Glasgow, this year on your COP, drawing of the year cartoon. And, all the guys are, having a party and they're thinking about the clocks that, expire for them.

[00:23:56]Daryl CagleMy elected set term of office, my peak earnings for eco book, the deadline to apply for war subsidies, all of these things. things that for them are, uh, going to run out and they don't have to really do anything because they're out the door. I thought that was very nice.

[00:24:11]Graeme MacKayThank you. And time is running out.

[00:24:13]Daryl CagleTime is running out, but we can't deal with long term issues because everybody is short term.

[00:24:18]Graeme MacKayWell, we're having, the next COP is coming up next week, apparently, in Dubai. So, get your pencils ready for it. You'll get your one annual, treat next

[00:24:26]Daryl Cagleweek. This is like, the Earth Day cartoon. Yeah. The Earth Day and COP, twice a year you get a cartoon.

[00:24:33]Daryl CagleYeah. I ask you guys to this, podcast because you draw more climate change cartoons than once a year, and, you're all very good on that, and I like that. It's good to see. We'll see if we can get anybody to watch this podcast that doesn't have Trump. Okay, so here you've got the big pie with the Liberals Act on Climate Change, and they, are cutting it up so that it doesn't quite say that.

[00:24:55]Daryl CagleAnd is that Justin Trudeau saying, Pssst, Garcon! Some more carve outs to come. And then some guy that nobody would know who has the name Guilbeau. What is it, Gilbo? Gilbo

[00:25:09]Graeme MacKayis his last

[00:25:09]Daryl Caglename. Okay, who is this

[00:25:11]Graeme MacKayguy? Stephen Gilbo is the environment minister, the federal environment minister. He actually used to be climate activist.

[00:25:18]Graeme MacKayAnd he'd be the guy that'd be scaling up... Parliament buildings and things like that and he actually ran for the Liberals in a recent election and was appointed As the environment minister and he's like the he's the one kind of champion about the carbon taxes that we've had and the carve out that not not to get too deep into the weeds of boring Canadian politics, but Trudeau has been the big champion of putting a price on carbon.

[00:25:40]Graeme MacKayAnd we've been dealing with this for a few years. And now with the cost of living crisis that we're all dealing with, he actually bent and said, we're gonna take off the carbon tax on home heating on oil. But it just so happens that most of the people who use oil as a home heating source is in the Maritimes where Many of the votes for the Liberal Party come from.

[00:26:01]Graeme MacKaySo the rest of the people, uh, West of New Brunswick heat their houses with natural gas mostly. And so all these people who vote conservative were shut out. So it was this kind of like, kind of political opportunist thing that he's done to basically destroy the signature. piece of what the Liberals represent in fighting climate change.

[00:26:20]Graeme MacKaySo it's, it's really causing trouble for him now. And now people are demanding that, oh, well, the farmers need to get like a, something chopped off their carbon tax. And, the poor people in the West need some kind of thing. So what are you going to do, Justin? And it's really, it's really turned, the whole price on carbon in this country upside down.

[00:26:37]Graeme MacKayAnd we're at a crossroad right now. And we've got a Conservative guy. Pierre Pauliev, who's on the edge, and he's about to take over, and he's just like the Republicans. He has no policy, really, towards, uh, fighting climate change whatsoever. So the clock is about to be turned back in, in Canada, and it's kind of a sad time.

[00:26:54]Graeme MacKayFor people who are really, thinking that the time was, was, is long past to do something about fighting climate change.

[00:26:59]Daryl CagleVery good. So here you've got a multi panel cartoon. You've got the dumb everyman who says, science doesn't tell me what to do. He's holding a COVID hoax sign. And, The COVID person comes in with a lotto ticket and a needle to vaccinate him, and he says, Huh?

[00:27:17]Daryl CagleHe gets his lotto ticket and his vaccination, and then he goes to the next spot where the climate change person is also offering a lotto ticket. Do they give lotto tickets to people who've got vaccinations in Canada? Yes, I

[00:27:28]Graeme MacKaythink in some other western provinces, Alberta was one where they tried to entice them.

[00:27:32]Graeme MacKayThey did. There was like a lottery and, These, these sort of types would actually get vaccinated and it actually worked and, they were able to increase the numbers and other provinces got on board with this. Of course, it caused, headaches where other governments said, well, we're not going to do that.

[00:27:46]Graeme MacKayThat's crazy, but it's funny in that the whole COVID pandemic and climate change has, parallels where you have these deniers, you have the hoaxers. It tends to come from the right, and you know, we also had that horrible convoy, freedom convoy thing that happened.

[00:28:02]Rod EmmersonYeah, thanks Graham. Yeah, exactly.

[00:28:05]Graeme MacKayThey wanted to catch it on the US, it never did get here far.

[00:28:08]Graeme MacKayBut, The parallels they are very deep with, um, the hoaxers on the COVID side and, and the climate change people, and I thought that was an

[00:28:18]Daryl Cagleinteresting comment. There is, a, kind of a checklist of, uh, conspiracies and hoaxes that, , the right wing tends to all agree

[00:28:26]Graeme MacKaywell, the talking points, though, are on both sides of the spectrum, really. You're, hearing parroting on both sides. I've tuned into some of your podcasts, Daryl, and I've seen some of... Our fellow colleagues parrot what you would hear on, on Fox or in Breitbart. They use these terms that no one else uses and refer to like George Soros. Whatever is, is being said on TV and where they're getting their sources of information, you know, but this part, the one common denominator, and this is just a mistrust for, for science, which is largely on the, on the right of the spectrum.

[00:29:02]Pat BagleySo I, I spoke to, uh, the Chamber of Commerce in Salt Lake City a few years ago and I took questions after I gave my presentation and I got this one question and I couldn't quite understand what he was talking about, but he, he was basically asking where do I get my talking points from, like he expected us to all get the same memo and all to be on the same page because that made sense to him.

[00:29:26]Daryl CagleHmm. I think that is one area where, cartoonists can, be a little proud because I don't know anybody that gets talking points. they're pushed into following the checklist just by, watching the media and living in their media bubble. I think that, cartoonists are, much better pundits.

[00:29:42]Daryl CagleOne thing I want to prove on, this podcast is that, editorial cartoonists are, better talking heads than columnists. And you know, when cartoonists go on TV, we get the, How do you draw like that? Where do you get your ideas? Questions. Columnists go on TV. Nobody asks them, where do you get your ideas?

[00:29:59]Daryl CagleAnd how'd you learn to type like that? It just doesn't happen because there's some kind of presumption that columnists have this, vast pool of knowledge and are respected experts. What they don't know since they don't know about syndication is that almost all of those columnists only have three or four newspapers subscribing to them and being a syndicated columnist doesn't mean a whole lot, but no, syndicated columnists are these experts and, Editorial cartoonists who are actually brighter and wittier and have to have the same vast body of knowledge and don't have talking points are passed by because they just don't understand cartoons like they understand words.

[00:30:40]Daryl CagleAnd so, that makes me mad and that's my rant.

[00:30:43]Graeme MacKayWell, and it doesn't help that you go on social media and you have people all over thinking or acting like they're experts, you know, last week they're an expert on, on, I don't know, on the COVID and then this week they're, yeah, on COVID. And then this week they're an expert on the Middle East.

[00:30:57]Graeme MacKayLike, where's your diploma on the wall that says that? I think for cartoonists, we're just like average folk that just have the talent to, synthesize what we're reading in the news and come up with kind of witty Summations of what's going

[00:31:09]Daryl Cagleon. Well, you know, we get the news from both sides of the spectrum, and both sides of the spectrum have that, checklist where they agree on all the topics.

[00:31:17]Daryl CagleCartoonists aren't like that. We're normal people, and we're going to agree on some of the topics and not on some of the other topics. we're not beholden to that list. And, that just doesn't conform. Here's another Trump. He says we're going to build a wall, but what he builds is a wall of coal burning smokestacks that engulf Canada in smoke. And, Canadians are paying for Trump's coal. I typically think of Canada engulfing America in smoke.

[00:31:44]Graeme MacKayNo, that's of course what we've been used to in the last year. But this I think was just after he was elected president. So we're talking what, 2016, 2017.

[00:31:54]Graeme MacKayyeah, that was his big promise. we're going to bring coal back to West Virginia and Kentucky and all these. States that relied on it as, you know, part of their economy, but in actual fact, I understand coal has been receding quite immensely in the United States since Trump became president. So his dream was never realized.

[00:32:13]Graeme MacKayI think more and more, they're getting off of coal as far as I know. I know in Canada, in Ontario, we're totally without coal. fire power plants now, and I, I think that's the direction that the U. S. is going. So, I think Trump will say something, but in actuality, things are progressing well.

[00:32:28]Daryl Cagleprogressing well here, although they're adding coal like crazy in China and in India and, across the world it's not improving.

[00:32:35]Graeme MacKayNo, and, and that's, that's the thing. It's a, it's a cheap way of producing, electricity and, that's the way a lot of these poor countries, that's the way they can only go over here.

[00:32:44]Rod EmmersonWell, India, yeah,

[00:32:45]Pat Bagley

[00:32:45]Pat BagleyThey're

[00:32:45]Pat Bagleystill building coal plants, though. Yeah, they are. Exactly. So, here, Graham, you've got, we demand action on climate change, which means we recycle, I can't do green bins. We eat less meat. I'm allergic to non meat products. We use LED and CFL light bulbs. Not me, I hate them.

[00:33:02]Pat BagleyWe carpool and take public transport. Not convenient for me. Everyone will pay higher carbon taxes. Can we opt out?

[00:33:09]Graeme MacKayThat was a good Canadian accent you put on there, Daryl.

[00:33:12]Daryl CagleOh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And they're all on, and they're all on a disembodied heads on the green background. Yes. Yes.

[00:33:21]Graeme MacKayWell, you try drawing all those bodies.

[00:33:24]Graeme MacKayIt's not an easy feat. You don't think I didn't do copy paste on that? I mean, come on.

[00:33:31]Daryl CagleVery good.

[00:33:32]Graeme MacKayyeah, I'm not going to go into secrets of what we all do.

[00:33:35]Daryl CagleYou know, it's interesting I get a lot of mail from people that suggest cartoon ideas to me. And they're all kind of of the nature of, Daryl, you should draw this army on the left side of the cartoon coming in facing off against this other army, and the sky is filled with helicopters, and there's this politician and that politician, and they're down here, and they're saying this and that, and, it's like they have no idea how lazy we are.

[00:34:00]Graeme MacKayIt's, it's all like these complex ideas and it takes them five minutes to spit it out and then, you know what, you draw that, you find an iPad and draw that with Procreate, you

[00:34:09]Daryl Cagleknow, you get, you get the same emails, right?

[00:34:12]Daryl CagleYeah, exactly. Oh, absolutely. Okay, so here you've got the crowd of people, you do draw crowds of people, and they're, the Vox Populi, then, three minutes ago, they're saying stop the rising levels of greenhouse gas, action now, and now they've crossed that out and they want to stop the rising cost of gas, because the rising cost of gas is what bothers them this minute.

[00:34:33]Daryl CagleWell,

[00:34:33]Graeme MacKaythis is the key thing from both those cartoons that this is an issue of climate change is something that, you can't regulate from just the government to curtail your activity. You have to, you have to participate, you have to do the right thing and, do what you can for climate change, which might mean driving less or, planting a tree or doing something.

[00:34:51]Graeme MacKayBut when push comes to shove people. Are, are gonna blame government and they're gonna be pissed off because of taxes or whatever like that, but when you're asked to do something to contribute to fixing the situation, then they're gonna put up a fuss. And that's what I'm showing

[00:35:05]Daryl Caglethese two cartoons.

[00:35:06]Daryl CagleHere you've got the progressively bigger waves about to crash into the little city which says, be sure to wash your hands and all will be well. COVID recession, climate change, and biodiversity collapse.

[00:35:20]Graeme MacKayYeah, this is um, a viral cartoon. This, this went all over the world. It continues to go all over the world.

[00:35:25]Graeme MacKayAnd it all started, actually, it originated, the first two waves there, COVID 19 and recession were the original cartoon. that happened the day after the pandemic was declared by the WHO. And now, all of a sudden, a few weeks later, I start seeing people adding their own waves. Like a crudely drawn climate change showed up, and I started seeing it on my Twitter feed, and I thought, Well, someone's kind of like, hijacking my cartoon and turning it into a meme.

[00:35:51]Graeme MacKaySo I drew it, with the three waves. And all of a sudden I saw the biodiversity collapse wave show up a few weeks after that. So I re possessed my cartoon, and this is what the final version is. Although now I'm seeing other... Renditions coming out where World War 3 is behind by for biodiversity class, which makes no sense because once Biodiversity collapse as well.

[00:36:13]Graeme MacKayThe human race is supposed to be the same. Yeah, it's it. Yeah, so there's no there's no fifth wave here An alien invasion would work perhaps you can bring it some of your

[00:36:30]Graeme MacKayTo do that you're authorized to do

[00:36:32]Daryl CagleHere are the big banks as the octopus, which is a wonderful historic, meme for editorial cartoonists, octopus cartoons. And, he's saying, we're doing our part for a green future as he is looking on one side like he's green, but on the other side, you see that he's really dirty and oily and fossil fuel investment y.

[00:36:52]Daryl CagleVery, very nice.

[00:36:53]Graeme MacKayAnd it's, of course, it's not confined just to us in Canada. I'm sure, you know, they've got this going in New Zealand and Utah and California, so.

[00:37:00]Rod EmmersonYeah, Australia.

[00:37:01]Daryl CagleThis is a, cute cartoon for the hottest month, in history in July of this year. people sitting in the slowly boiling pot, burning up, which slowly boiling pot seems to be the image for all of this. lovely cartoon. But again,

[00:37:15]Graeme MacKaythat's, global boiling is the term that happened in the summer of 2023.

[00:37:19]Graeme MacKayI'd never heard that term before, so I thought, I... It might show up. It'll probably show up next year and the following year. So let's let's get it on the the record

[00:37:27]Rod Emmersonvery good

[00:37:28]Daryl CagleAnd here. You've got two faced Justin. Yeah,

[00:37:31]Graeme MacKayand he's going back. He's reverting back to this because he's got an election coming up and for the longest time he's been sitting on the fence and he's been coddling At both sides, I think this is a dilemma that all politicians really, have to deal with, whether you're, you're in Canada or elsewhere.

[00:37:45]Graeme MacKaywe're going to do that transformation period between fossil fuels and, the, uh, unicorns and rainbows side where it's, um, we're off fossil fuels. And it's, it's wonderful time to be a cartoonist to draw the hypocrisy of it all with our respective leaders in figuring this whole thing out.

[00:38:02]Daryl CagleI hear you have Biden and Justin Trudeau about to, do the high jump. this is a funny way of depicting, Biden because he, seems to struggle just to walk,

[00:38:12]Graeme MacKaybut he's in an Evel Knievel kind of outfit. I had to look up Evel Knievel, what he wore back in the sixties when he was doing his motorcycle jumps, but, um, that was the inspiration there.

[00:38:21]Graeme MacKayAnd it's, during the time, where, the thing is, um, Justin Trudeau can speak a big game about, climate change, but our emissions have been increasing, ever since we signed onto the Paris Agreement, and as much as he can talk about it. The efforts that are being done are clearly not enough, it's just getting worse and worse.

[00:38:38]Graeme MacKayBiden came along with the Green Leap, as far as I remember. I haven't heard much about it since, but, you had the,

[00:38:43]Daryl Caglethe squad. Oh, this was a thing, the Green Leap? I don't remember Green Leap.

[00:38:47]Graeme MacKayWas the Green Leap not happening? You know, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez was all, all about it. They're going on about this and, and trying to provoke, Biden to get on, on side. And I think he's, he's brought in some measures that have appeased them. And, meanwhile in Canada, we've just kind of dawdled away, and, and not been able to keep up with the, ambitious targets that Biden has, has brought to the U.

[00:39:09]Graeme MacKayS.

[00:39:10]Daryl CagleSo here's another one with some crazy people who knows who they are. Doug Ford and Jason Kenney. let's get the message out. No carbon tax. this cartoon is just A great looking cartoon. It's got a kind of a vintage feel to the design. The no carbon tax, uh, factory spewing out smoke.

[00:39:28]Daryl CagleIt's fun to look at, even if you don't know who the heck these people

[00:39:32]Graeme MacKayare. You don't need to know. you, we all have these characters in our respective countries. They're the conservatives that don't want to have carbon taxes. And here they are just burning taxpayer money in their, fight against taxes.

[00:39:45]Graeme MacKayand, you know, usually in the courts. They use taxpayer money to challenge federal laws or provincial laws or whatever by, um, spending millions of dollars challenging, and then they go nowhere, and then the Supreme Court rules, no, the federal, you're, you're going to federal jurisdiction, and they're allowed to impose a carbon tax, you know, it's just that fight between conservatives and liberals.

[00:40:06]Graeme MacKayOn putting a price on carbon and it can be anywhere in the world. It's happening all over the place.

[00:40:11]Daryl CagleYou have a very nice looking drawing of Canada all on fire and burned up, people saying arson is starting it, climate hoax, wildfires are normal.

[00:40:21]Graeme MacKayIt goes back just to the armchair critics out there on social media who instantly see some kind of calamity happening and and they go and come up with their conspiracies or their explanations as to what's, what's, um, what's happening.

[00:40:34]Graeme MacKayAnd it's usually driven by whatever talking points. It's being spoken on their favorite,

[00:40:39]Daryl Caglecable shows. So we're moving on to Rod. Rod, two big dinosaurs arguing at each other with climate change, asteroids coming down onto the earth. And one says more roads. The other one says light

[00:40:52]Rod Emmersonrail. It's a great analogy.

[00:40:54]Rod EmmersonThis one is, it's been used a thousand times over, but it. It never fails to get the message across. we've just been through an election cycle here and this represents both sides of the political spectrum, which just frightened the daylights out of me because no one was talking about climate change.

[00:41:11]Rod EmmersonThey were talking about more roads. they were talking about. Light rail, that just the menial things that always come up on the election cycle. and yet the real, the real danger and the real elephant in the room, I'm going to say, was climate change because we were experiencing it all this year, you know, with this, extreme, weather events that we were having.

[00:41:31]Rod EmmersonSo, yeah, I quite liked that one and went over quite well

[00:41:34]Daryl Caglehere. Well, unless you have some, thing happening like the Earth Day or the COP Report Day, your climate change everyday cartoons just aren't getting reprinted. perhaps you don't have that trouble in New Zealand since you're the big paper for all of New Zealand.

[00:41:49]Daryl CagleYes, well... But, uh, you know, for us, part of drawing a, cartoon is to get it to rise above the short term, thinking of the editors, and, it's a challenge to get these cartoons reprinted.

[00:42:00]Rod EmmersonYeah, I think climate change is very much on everybody's minds here, especially the, extreme weather events that we've had this year.

[00:42:07]Rod EmmersonEverybody, and it's been quite devastating. Everybody's attuned to it now, except the politicians.

[00:42:13]Rod EmmersonOh, yeah.

[00:42:14]Daryl CagleOkay. Here you've got, penguins on an iceberg and the lady with her grocery shopping cart at an iceberg. And one penguin says, personally, I'd say the cost

[00:42:22]Pat Bagleyof living is the least of your worries, but what would I know?

[00:42:25]Rod EmmersonI deliberately put this snarly look on the face of the penguin and put them on a heavily melted, uh, floating piece of ice, you know, the Christchurch on our south island is the jumping point to Antarctica.

[00:42:39]Rod EmmersonThat's where, the big bases depart from. And, so we're, we've got a strong link to the south pole, all the bases on the south pole. All this is happening. You know, all the news that's coming back from our scientists is very, very worrying. of course, there are also the day to day issues like the cost of living and all of this, mind you, is a byproduct of COVID and lockdown.

[00:43:01]Rod Emmersonwhat I was talking about before, gridflation, where People are now seeing a head of cabbage, you know, 10 bucks, cauliflower, 10, you know, I mean, it's the sort of thing you used to run over with the lawnmower.

[00:43:18]Daryl CagleYeah. Well, how much is a New Zealand dollar worth? Uh, US dollars. As US

[00:43:22]Rod Emmersondollars, probably about 60 cents.

[00:43:24]Daryl CagleOh, well, those are cheap prices.

[00:43:30]Graeme MacKayGood point.

[00:43:32]Daryl Caglehere you've got, 2001 Space Odyssey cartoon

[00:43:36]Rod Emmersonwell, I, I sat and watched this. I remember seeing this at the cinema and just being, completely awestruck by the, by the way this was presented, this particular scene, and, uh, where the monkey Throws a bone in the air and it turns into a spaceship. I reckon I'll never ever forget that. I thought, just thought it was brilliant.

[00:43:55]Rod Emmersonso I watched that scene where the, this, obelisk just appears out of nowhere.

[00:44:01]Rod Emmersonso, you know, we were surrounded by skeptics. And, um, and, and continue to, to this day, of course.

[00:44:09]Rod EmmersonBut it's the science that was just baffling to everybody. They couldn't get their head around it.

[00:44:13]Daryl CagleSo this is a, illustration of your, storms with the floods and a giant drain, the storm water infrastructure required for climate change. Just nowhere to put that water. Yeah, that's well,

[00:44:26]Rod Emmersonthis goes back to my days, um, before cartooning where I used to be a design draftsman in municipal engineering.

[00:44:34]Rod EmmersonSo I used to design, roads, water, and sewerage. and, you know, from the experience of that, in designing, stormwater drainage, what's, required to get the rainfall away, in a, in a peak storm, it was like a 100 year event. And after the experiences. Of this year here in New Zealand.

[00:44:54]Rod EmmersonAnd this particular area is deliberately Hawke's Bay, which is a quite a famous wine area here in New Zealand on the East Coast. Um, they were just swamped. And this is, um, byproduct of forestry that, um, for the slash. from forestry washed into the streams. It took out infrastructure washed out onto the beaches and then, and would run 20 to 30 kilometers up and down various beaches.

[00:45:23]Rod EmmersonIt's just wall to wall, forestry slash the water. What, because of all that, the, uh, the silt that came with it, uh, took out homes, buried homes, buried cars, it was just frightening. The whole thing was frightening and you, you wouldn't have enough infrastructure in the world to be able to take this away in a, um, you know, for stormwater.

[00:45:45]Rod EmmersonSo I, I sort of applied my, uh, former life as a design draftsman, and stuck that in the middle of a cartoon. And I think it worked

[00:45:53]Daryl Caglerather well. Very good. Here you have the EVs running up against the dairy. Beef, sheep industry, and they're saying, what's the rush? How is it that EVs are running up against this industry?

[00:46:08]Daryl CagleIs this a cow flatulence,

[00:46:10]Rod EmmersonA cow, a cow fart tax. Yes. Well, you have to put it in perspective. New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, right? Which is probably a Los Angeles suburb. So it's quite a small country. and I'll. One of our biggest industries, of course, is, uh, dairy and the beef and sheep industry.

[00:46:30]Rod EmmersonAnd unfortunately, these, those industries that contribute the most to the methane gases and everything that we're trying to stop, and they're also a The loudest voices, uh, trying to shut down, any laws and in this case, it's, New Zealand government came up with a net zero by 2050 and the screaming from this quarter.

[00:46:53]Rod EmmersonUm, was just phenomenal. and of course, at that time, the government introduced an incentive to buy EV vehicles. The New Zealand government actually declared, uh, officially declared a climate emergency. the Adern government did, and introduced a rebate if you bought an electric vehicle or a hybrid.

[00:47:13]Rod EmmersonAnd, you know, like between five to eight thousand dollars, and, of course, there was a huge rush onto these vehicles. But the screaming came from the dairy industry, of course.

[00:47:22]Daryl CagleSo are they just screaming against, uh, anything that is, global warming helpful, even if it's not directly affecting them?

[00:47:30]Rod EmmersonThe vast majority, are, yes.

[00:47:32]Rod EmmersonThey haven't moved technology, towards, offsetting their contribution to the methane gas, problem that we've got here in New Zealand. and I'll never understand why they won't move forward. The science is there, there's a big push to get dairy. Out of our rivers and streams, for heaven's sake.

[00:47:51]Rod Emmersoncause that's, that's another area where there's a massive amount of pollution. Um, you'll probably see this come up in a couple of more cartoons. But they're a very vocal group. Quite, it's quite sad.

[00:48:01]Daryl CagleYou know, frankly, I don't think of New Zealand as a place for pollution. I think of it as, the place where you have the hobbit and beautiful mountains and Everything is not overpopulated, it's green and it's lovely and, it's just odd that this would be ...

[00:48:17]Rod EmmersonPretty well, every river and stream that runs from runs down from the mountains. And we have some spectacular mountain ranges here, the Southern Alps in particular, virtually every single river and stream will run through or past a farm of some sort.

[00:48:33]Rod EmmersonAnd those farms will be, mostly, either dairy, beef, sheep, or pig, or the pig industry. And, um, but... The testing of the waterways, let's forget about the gases, the testing of the waterways has proved that, um, they're contributing to the decline in our rivers and streams. They used to say that it was 100 percent New Zealand, you know, 100 percent clean.

[00:48:54]Rod EmmersonThey'd be lucky if it's 30 percent clean.

[00:48:57]Pat BagleyOkay. So I used to do cartoons for the Dairyman magazine in the United States. And I sent one of my cartoons in the Dairyman magazine and I got a call from the editor and he goes, how many teats does a cow have?

[00:49:10]Pat Bagleythere are four. four. Yeah. Gushers

[00:49:16]Rod Emmersonfool.

[00:49:18]Graeme MacKayI thought there was six or eight. Is it like

[00:49:19]Daryl Caglea spider? That sounds just wrong.

[00:49:23]Graeme MacKayFour. There are four. Rod obviously knows. Oh,

[00:49:26]Daryl Cagleyes I've seen enough of

[00:49:29]Rod Emmersonthem

[00:49:34]Daryl CagleAll right, well here you have the military helmet with born to save the planet on it and marine permaculture Seaweed and eat it and climate emergency. It's uh, it's uh anti war uh as uh Uh, anti global war. I mean, that's a good looking cartoon.

[00:49:53]Rod EmmersonIt's a play on the Full Metal Jacket poster. but this came out, well actually, this illustration accompanied a story, by one of our lead writers on, um, Adern's, declaration of a climate emergency and why we need to do it and what, what.

[00:50:09]Rod EmmersonWhat does New Zealand need to do to offset the problems that we're experiencing here and to make our contribution to the world, and it they ran this illustration large and the weekend Herald, it was, very popular, I have to say, used passed around a lot on social media.

[00:50:24]Daryl CagleIt's iconic.

[00:50:26]Pat BagleyBeautiful drawing.

[00:50:27]Graeme MacKayIt is. But that's one of the arguments that a lot of people say is why are we bothering with, carbon tax and everything when you have all these other countries that don't do enough. They don't care. But there's a responsibility with everyone who signed that, Paris Agreement, you know, to act, like, responsible.

[00:50:42]Graeme MacKayYeah, do what you can for the planet. You might have these laggards in the world like China and India, but Don't look at them and don't give up just because they're not doing anything You have a responsibility in this planet as a participant of this planet to do something

[00:50:55]Daryl Cagleokay, this is a great looking cartoon. You've got Putin in the middle of all the devastation and he says, and do you thought climate change was the number one threat facing civilization? What about the bruised ego?

[00:51:09]Rod EmmersonAnd this is the thing, isn't it? You know, We have these despot regimes around the world that couldn't care less about climate change.

[00:51:19]Rod Emmersonbut more about their own egos.

[00:51:21]Daryl CagleAnd, and he is, uh, you know, arguably, the big problem that's happening now. without a

[00:51:28]Rod Emmersondoubt.

[00:51:28]Daryl CagleGood looking drawing. Look at that. That's very nice. That's very funny. You do a great Putin. I like the pointy ears.

[00:51:38]Rod EmmersonI think he's evil. Absolutely

[00:51:39]Daryl Cagleevil. He is an evil bastard.

[00:51:43]Daryl CagleHere you have another character saying New Zealand would like to make a memorable contribution to the global discussion on greenhouse gases as he is farting on, on a polar bear.

[00:51:54]Daryl CagleYes.

[00:51:55]Rod EmmersonFormer Prime Minister John Key, who was a money trader, in a previous life. went to the Paris conference and our contribution was terrible.

[00:52:04]Pat BagleySo

[00:52:05]Rod EmmersonI thought, what better way to show it than to do exactly that. Move on to the next one.

[00:52:13]Daryl CagleOkay, so here you have Liberty leading the people, and it's Ahern and there's, Trump behind her, and she's saying, okay, boomer to Trump.

[00:52:22]Daryl Cagleit's Greta, this is a day when she, you've got a wonderful little Greta Thunberg.

[00:52:26]Rod EmmersonThis is when cleared the, uh, er declared the, uh, climate emergency. And America pulled out.

[00:52:30]Daryl CagleWinners and Grinners, you've got a polar bear holding up the arms of who knows who these guys are.

[00:52:35]Rod Emmersonthat's, uh, No, I can't remember

[00:52:37]Daryl Cagletheir names.

[00:52:37]Daryl CagleIt's somehow reassuring that you also don't know who they are. Well,

[00:52:41]Rod Emmersonit's 2015,

[00:52:42]Daryl CagleDaryl. Okay, very good. Well, that is your last cartoon, Rod. And, we are just all done. All right. So thank you, gentlemen. Do you have any last things you'd like to add?

[00:52:52]Graeme MacKayIt's been a blast. Thanks for having us.

[00:52:54]Daryl CagleOkay. Well, thank you, guys. Thank you for being here. Thank you for drawing climate change cartoons when nobody seems to care, because that's just what we should be doing. And maybe we'll get somebody to care. And thank you so much. Good to see you guys. Yes. You too, mate.

[00:53:11]Daryl CagleOkay, well thank you for watching the Caglecast, Remember to subscribe to the Caglecast, wherever you're watching this podcast. We really appreciate it. And, we will see you soon with the next Caglecast thank you, gentlemen. Thank you.

[00:53:23]Rod EmmersonThank you.

[00:53:24]Daryl CagleSee y'all. Alright.

[00:53:25]Graeme MacKayDraw.