Joe Biden Political Cartoons! Joe and Hunter Biden are Bashed by Conservative Cartoonists #31

We have three of the best conservative cartoonists showing off and discussing their Joe Biden and Hunter Biden cartoons. CagleCartoonists Gary McCoy and Rivers join two time Pulitzer winner, Michael Ramirez for a fun and lively episode #31 of the Caglecast! They talk about Hunter's scandals and special interest money, Joe Biden's "dementia," their views of liberal media, their perspective on Biden's "failed policies," their use of humor and satire in political cartoons, and the reactions from editors and readers to their conservative perspective in what they view as a liberal media world. They also talk about their process of drawing cartoons and what crosses the line as inappropriate in a cartoon. This is a view inside the conservative media bubble into the passion behind their dislike for Joe and Hunter Biden.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ is a two time Pulitzer winner and a good old friend of mine for many years. His work is syndicated to hundreds of newspapers by another syndicate than ours, and he's the full time cartoonist for the Las Vegas Review-Journal, which is an excellent, cartoon friendly newspaper! Michael has won a ton of awards, and his work is brilliant, as you will see here.

RIVERS is our anonymous, brilliant, conservative cartoonist here at Cagle Cartoons, but I can tell you that he has also won a ton of awards in his previous cartoonist life, which shall not be named and he's a good looking fellow under the mask.

GARY McCOY is brilliant, conservative and has won a ton of awards too, including ten Silver Reubens from the National Cartoonists Society. He is also a prolific magazine cartoonist and he draws TWO syndicated newspaper comic strips, The DUPLEX and the FLYING McCOY BROTHERS -- which is a crazy amount of work.

Daryl Cagle is your cartoonist host! Read more about Daryl at

Cartoons discussed in the Caglecast:

00:00:00 Introduction to the CagleCast with three conservative cartoonists
00:00:43 Discussion about Hunter Biden's controversial activities
00:03:07 Conversation about Hunter Biden's gun application and hypocrisy
00:05:13 Analysis of a cartoon depicting Hunter Biden leaving mud in the Oval Office
00:06:46 Introduction of anonymous cartoonist Rivers and discussion of his cartoons
00:07:21 Analysis of Rivers' cartoons featuring Hunter Biden
00:08:08 Introduction of cartoonist Gary McCoy and discussion of his cartoon
00:09:04 Humorous cartoon about Hunter Biden interrupting a business call with his dad
00:09:04 Discussion about Joe Biden's involvement in business meetings
00:09:21 Conversation about Hunter Biden's personal life
00:09:53 Gary McCoy's desire to look at other cartoonists' work
00:10:07 Michael Ramirez's success with movie parodies
00:10:26 Michael Ramirez's use of relatable images in cartoons
00:10:54 Michael Ramirez's cartoon on the IRS and government control
00:11:33 Michael Ramirez's experience with being audited
00:11:58 Michael Ramirez's cartoon on the negative impact of Bidenomics
00:12:38 Discussion on the dominance of liberal media organizations
00:15:10 Debate on the decline of substantive political cartoons
00:16:07 Conversation about the lack of appealing presidential candidates
00:17:31 Gary McCoy's shift from being a never Trumper to pro Trump
00:17:59 Daryl Cagle's observation of Gary McCoy's lack of Trump cartoons
00:18:17 Rivers' perspective on drawing cartoons on the current president
00:18:17 Liberal cartoonists focusing on Trump.
00:19:14 Ramirez draws Trump cartoons as an equal opportunity offender.


[00:00:00]Daryl CagleHey everybody, I'm Daryl Cagle, and this is the CagleCast, where we're all about editorial cartoons, and we've got three very great, very conservative cartoonists hello gentlemen.

[00:00:10]Gary McCoyHey Daryl.

[00:00:10]Daryl CagleMichael Ramirez is a two time Pulitzer winner and a good old friend of mine for many years. His work is syndicated to hundreds of newspapers by another syndicate than ours. And he's the full time cartoonist for the Las Vegas Review Journal, which is an excellent cartoon friendly newspaper.

[00:00:27]Daryl CagleAnd Michael has won a ton of awards. His work is brilliant, as you will see here. And it's great to have you here, Michael.

[00:00:34]Michael RamirezWell, thank you. It's, uh, I'm honored to be here with the two outstanding cartoonists as well. Yeah, well, I should say three since Daryl, of course, does cartoons as well.

[00:00:43]Daryl CagleMichael, here's a couple of examples of yours. You've got Hunter in Biden's house and he is, uh, in his underwear and he says, Hey, dad, if you see my laptop and Biden says, no, have you seen my confidential files? This is hilarious., and I think that, it, it kind of brings up one of the things that I have as a liberal looking at the conservative cartoons, because so much of the Hunter Biden stuff, is, uh, Biden crime family, very, uh, harsh accusations of, criminality, whereas I think, Liberals like me kind of, look at Hunter as a doofus loser figure, as, you have portrayed him here, and, not so much of a mafia figure.

[00:01:26]Michael RamirezWell, you know, he's kind of, he's kind of a conglomeration of both, actually. I mean, there's 20 million dollars of money floating out there from foreign capital, and, and, we don't know exactly how it's been distributed. And I know Hunter's a fantastic artist, but really... Does anyone... Gary, when was the last time you sold a painting for the amounts that he's getting to people that are remaining anonymous?

[00:01:49]Gary McCoyI told my son to forget college. I'm going to take all of his college fund now. I'm trying to save up to buy a Hunter painting.

[00:01:58]Michael RamirezIn fact, there was that story about his legal bills. And I was thinking, what is that, like ten paintings or something? Um, if you look in the foreground of that cartoon, I don't know if you can see it, but there's, I always put little, easter eggs within the cartoon itself in the foreground.

[00:02:12]Michael Ramirezthere's the, uh, cereal that's late labeled flakes. yes, Hunter is a flake, but he's a well paid flake and while. this kind of thing has been going on in history for generations and generations. Neil Bush. Don Nixon. You could go to Hugh Rodham. Billy Carter was not an expert in Libya.

[00:02:30]Michael Ramirezand you could, you could use your family's familial connections to make money, but at this point it's not illegal. But if you don't pay taxes on it, or if you're not registered as a foreign agent and you're doing the work of foreign entities, those are illegal. I think these things need

[00:02:46]Michael Ramirezto be looked into.

[00:02:47]Daryl CagleWell, it seems like the main charge against him is having a gun and lying on the application to get the gun. How do you feel about that?

[00:02:54]Michael RamirezWell, that is against the law, and I think it's kind of ironic that you have a president here who yells and screams any time there's an offense with a gun, that we have to have more stricter accountability with guns, except for his son.

[00:03:06]Michael RamirezHe seems to be leaving.

[00:03:07]Daryl CagleThat is interesting irony, but I also expect conservatives to be more forgiving of gun kind of issues.

[00:03:14]Michael RamirezWell, no, I think, I think, obviously, one right of conservatism is responsibility for your individual actions. Mm-Hmm. . And while I do think maybe there's, perhaps an overzealous pursuit in some of these items and he is getting a pretty hefty fine, but had he just reckoned with it and dealt with the deal that he got, he would've been pretty well off.

[00:03:35]Michael RamirezI think the consequences of what's being charged against him now are because of his own indecision, hoping that they would wrap the entire thing in an envelope of immunity. And that wouldn't happen for any individual in the country, regardless of who they are.

[00:03:48]Daryl CagleWell, he's a loser and a drug addict and an albatross around dad's neck.

[00:03:53]Michael RamirezAnd also

[00:03:54]Michael Ramirezinteresting here, Daryl, is that nobody mentions that there's more than one gun involved here. I mean, there's the gun that his brother's wife, uh, inconveniently disposed in the trash bin, but there's also the gun that he was flaunting around while he was taking drugs in the photographs on his laptop.

[00:04:08]Gary McCoyYou know, Daryl, I'm, as a gun owner, when any gun I've had to purchase, I've had to fill out all the same. paperwork, background FBI paperwork that Hunter Biden filled out. So I take it dead seriously. Everything on there. I had to answer correctly and I would never dream of lying or I would expect to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[00:04:31]Gary McCoySo I don't think conservative gun owners look at 100 biden with sympathy. We look at it as ardent hypocrisy. like Mike said, you know, his father has railed against gun owners throughout his whole life and vilified us, and here his son violates a federal law on a gun application and

[00:04:51]Daryl CagleWell, perhaps he was in a drug stupor when he filled out the application.

[00:04:55]Michael RamirezNo, I think he was in a drug stupor when he did. And look, it's just about accountability. Nobody wants to get him because he's Hunter Biden.

[00:05:02]Daryl CagleThey want to find the money trail to Biden.

[00:05:05]Michael RamirezThere are plenty of things to get Biden with that have nothing to do with Hunter whatsoever.

[00:05:11]Michael RamirezThat's sort of been my position in my cartoons.

[00:05:13]Daryl CagleWell, I'm

[00:05:14]Daryl Caglejust introducing you guys here and we're spending all the time on the first cartoon. This is another wonderful Biden cartoon, Michael. you know, we see so many cartoons with, traipsing the mud around. You know, mud is a standard thing in cartoons.

[00:05:27]Daryl CagleBut, you make this funny by really going to town on all the mud. And, I think it's a wonderful cartoon. You've got the Oval Office all traipsed and, uh, and footprints and handprints of mud and, an, aide is saying to Biden, I see Hunter Biden came by. That's just hilarious.

[00:05:43]Michael RamirezYou know, the amazing thing about it is it's not even exaggerated.

[00:05:49]Michael RamirezWhenever Hunter goes anywhere, you know, it's funny because, when you look at the, the plea deal that he put together. You could tell by the rejection of that plea deal, while his father is running for re election, that Hunter only cares about himself. And he doesn't have any allowance for what his father is going through, whatsoever.

[00:06:05]Daryl CagleIt

[00:06:05]Daryl Cagledoesn't seem like he made that decision in his own best interest, either. That just seems to be stupid.

[00:06:10]Michael RamirezIt was a bad decision. And part, well, part of it, though, when you look at it in the context of time, was because he knew there were other charges coming along, and he would hope that this deal would insulate him from all charges.

[00:06:23]Michael RamirezAnd, uh, it was a, it was a bad decision on his part and his lawyers as well, not to take that plea deal.

[00:06:29]Daryl CagleIt was. Okay, our next cartoonist is Rivers. Rivers is our anonymous, brilliant, conservative cartoonist here at Cagle Cartoons. And, I can tell you that he has also won a ton of awards. in his previous cartoonist life, which shall not be named, he was, quite an award winner.

[00:06:46]Daryl CagleAnd he's a good looking fellow under the mask.

[00:06:49]RiversThank you, Daryl. I don't know how to, I don't know how to follow up with that, but, uh.

[00:06:55]Daryl CagleAll right, so here you've got, Naked Hunter, and you know the naked pictures are, are really pretty funny, and I, I think it's kind of... a cool cartoon thing that, Hunter is just portrayed naked now.

[00:07:06]Daryl Cagleit's his nature. And, Biden is covering up his private parts saying, "Eyes, is up here." That's funny that he's just acting in, in his cartoon character.

[00:07:14]RiversMm hmm. Yeah. No, it's very simple in its implementation, but it gets the message

[00:07:21]Michael Ramirezacross.

[00:07:21]Daryl CagleHere's another, uh, naked Hunter cartoon from you, Rivers.

[00:07:25]Daryl CagleReports suggest Hunter listed his father's house as his place of residence, and he's talking to his girlfriend saying, Come on, baby, put down my dad's top secret stuff and blow a joint with me.

[00:07:36]RiversYes, with her arm conveniently placed. . But, yeah, it was, it was kind of shocking when that, When those news reports first came out you know, the things that they were trying to get Trump on, seems that, that Joe was even more guilty in a lot of ways because he wasn't president at the time.

[00:07:52]RiversA lot of those files probably needed to be in a skiff and, here they are in his, his garage.

[00:07:58]Gary McCoyHey Rivers, if I send you five bucks later, could you send me a copy of this cartoon with her arm lower?

[00:08:06]Michael RamirezSure.

[00:08:08]Daryl CagleOkay, so Gary McCoy is a brilliant conservative, and he's won a ton of awards too, including ten Silver Reubens from the National Cartoonist Society. He's also a prolific magazine cartoonist, and he draws two syndicated newspaper comic strips, The Duplex and The Flying McCoy Brothers, which is a crazy amount of work.

[00:08:29]Daryl CagleBut you are overall crazy, Gary.

[00:08:32]Gary McCoyOh, I'm your knuckle dragging conservative, Daryl.

[00:08:35]Daryl CagleOh, we've got, we've got three knuckle dragging conservatives today. Oh, there you go. It's very unusual for us. so here you've got, a husband talking to a wife, and he's on the phone and, somebody on the phone is saying, So we replaced the fuel filter and installed a new fan belt, but before I give you a total cost, I'd like to put my dad on the phone to say hi.

[00:08:53]Daryl CagleAnd dad says, Howdy! And the guy says, I blame Hunter Biden for this. that is, what Hunter does. He puts dad on to say hi when he has business calls.

[00:09:04]Gary McCoyYeah, that, that's just, it's so funny how they tried to explain that away. That, well, you know, he's just being a nice old guy just getting on the phone and he happens to be around at all these, you know, accessible at all these crucial business meetings to jump on and extend His friendliness.

[00:09:21]Daryl CagleWell that's really all he needed was to jump on and say hi. Yeah. Here's another Hunter from you. Uh, you got the guy sitting at the counter at the diner. First guy says, Hunter Biden won't even acknowledge that his little girl's his. How do you think that makes her feel? Other guy says, probably thrilled as he looks at the newspaper saying, Hunter Biden, hookers, drugs, grift, gun form, lies, corrupt business.

[00:09:45]Gary McCoyYeah. Can we just put my cartoon up for a second and go back to Rivers and Mike's cartoons, because I like watching, looking at theirs so much more.

[00:09:53]Daryl CagleOh, we're going to go through a whole bunch of Michael first, then we'll do Rivers, then we'll do you. So, Michael, you do lots of movie parodies, and I have noticed in our stats that movie parodies are like the most popular editorial cartoons ever.

[00:10:07]Daryl CagleThat's right. The editors love them, the readers love them.

[00:10:09]Michael RamirezWell, when you think about political cartoons, they have to, the audience has to relate to them. We're not, I'm, you know, I'm not just trying to offend people or contradict their political points. I'm trying to persuade them that if you can use iconic images that they can relate to, if they're more relatable, I think you can reach them.

[00:10:26]Michael Ramirezin this case with this cartoon, um, the birds, you've got the, the inflation reduction act basically should have been called the IRS act because it added 87, 000 new IRS agents. as enforcers to try to get more of our money from the government. so, I thought it immediately came to mind, this image of having the IRS bird logo flopping around our heads, chasing us down to get every penny that the government thinks they deserve.

[00:10:54]Michael RamirezYou know, one thing as a, classical constitutional conservative, I need to remind people that the government works for them, and that this money is actually ours, and that we contribute that money so that they can provide services on a federal plane. I think the problem with the Biden administration and progressives, they seem to think it's a contrary idea to that.

[00:11:12]Daryl CagleI think this is a great cartoon, and the IRS is, certainly a... threat hanging over our heads, and, uh...

[00:11:18]Michael RamirezAlthough, you have to be careful. I remember when I won my second Pulitzer, Bill Clinton actually sent me a congrat uh, he was nice enough to send me a con congratulatory note. And so I gathered all my Clinton cartoons, and I wrote him a little note back that said, Thank you, I couldn't have done it without you.

[00:11:33]Michael RamirezWhich I I thought it was funny at the time. Until I got audited three months later, so. Wow, really? I don't, I don't know if the, the things were related. But, you know, fortunately I've got a great accountant, so.

[00:11:47]Daryl CagleHere's another movie cartoon from you. You've got Independence Day shooting its beam down on the White House and the aliens are by Bidenomics and it's Independence Day coming November 2024.

[00:11:58]Daryl CagleThis looks great. That is great. Bidenomics is going to be his doom, I guess, because people are unhappy with the economy, no matter how much he claims it's good.

[00:12:08]Michael RamirezWell, rightfully so. I mean, when you go to the grocery store, if you go to the gas station, you'll know that the, you know, the price that we're paying for any kind of commodities,

[00:12:16]Michael Ramirezour

[00:12:16]Michael Ramirezgroceries.

[00:12:17]Michael RamirezIt's ridiculous. This was, though, the interesting thing about this cartoon was I had just started doing the Tuesday cartoons for the Washington Post, because they wanted to have a conservative voice on the page. And when this cartoon came out, which was on July 4th, thus Independence Day, we actually had Democrat members of the Congress protesting, having a contrary opinion.

[00:12:37]Michael Ramirezon the editorial page. Wow.

[00:12:38]Daryl Caglemost newspapers are rural and suburban newspapers. They tend to be small and have a conservative audience. So, uh, contrary to what some people scream, most newspapers are conservative. And, I have certainly noted that conservative papers lean more to not doing the left and right but rather more just the right rather than the liberal papers that like to have both left and right.

[00:13:02]Michael RamirezYeah. Well, that may be true, but let me disagree about the, what should be the objective content of newspapers. And the reason why the perception is that it's very liberal because it's dominated by the liberal media organizations. In fact, Michael Walsh's I'm writing a great book about that right now that I'm going to be doing a cover for.

[00:13:17]Michael RamirezWell, it

[00:13:18]Daryl Cagledepends on what it is. If it's small newspapers or talk radio, it's not dominated by the liberals.

[00:13:23]Michael RamirezWell, I mean, but talk radio, I think, is a different animal altogether. We're talking about

[00:13:27]Daryl Caglenews. Well, small newspapers are a different animal than the big media companies. Although they're owned by chains.

[00:13:33]Michael RamirezThe big media companies are dominated is because they control most of the organs. That, that distribute the news or like the AP, New York Times syndication. So they don't have huge staffs to be able to cover these broader events. So they're, they're covered by liberal organizations. And unfortunately, rather than giving an objective view, they have kind of a political agenda behind what they're doing.

[00:13:54]Michael RamirezI think that's why we're having an erosion in the credibility of, of the news and newspapers. And why people are, trusting the media almost, uh, as little as politicians.

[00:14:08]Daryl CagleWell, I would also argue what we're seeing with, newspapers is that both the left and the right newspapers are tending to print the same cartoons now, which are the opinionless cartoons that are little gag jokes.

[00:14:20]Daryl CagleThere had been a time where we saw a real distinction between, liberal and conservative cartoons by what the position of the paper is. And I think that's pretty much gone now. Uh, everything is just sweet.

[00:14:33]Michael RamirezIt is unfortunate. I think it's unfortunate. Because, you know, I'm kind of the old school journalist.

[00:14:38]Michael RamirezI'm the old fart screw up here. But, I believe in the journalistic intent of political cartoons. That they should be substantive.

[00:14:45]Daryl CagleWell, I'm afraid we're losing that. Uh, the substance is what we're losing first. And then once we turn into gag cartoonists, there's no difference between us and magazines and greeting cards and that's how I fear our profession is going to sink.

[00:14:59]Michael RamirezNow, I've got to come from the point of view that I don't really look at other cartoons, so I don't, I don't know what's really going out there, but I can tell you this. I've never pulled a punch, and, my circulation of my cartoons seem to be doing fine.

[00:15:10]Daryl CagleWell, look at the other cartoonists in the Washington Post that have regular contracts with them like you do.

[00:15:15]Daryl Caglehalf of them are very different. They are just gag cartoons that don't even relate to opinions in the news.

[00:15:21]Michael RamirezWell, again, I don't look at the other cartoons, but Ann Telnaes is there, Michael DeAdder. I think they're, they're

[00:15:26]Daryl CagleThey're both very good. Look at the other three. it's gag cartoons. They're good gag cartoons.

[00:15:31]Daryl Caglebut they disappoint me.

[00:15:32]Michael RamirezYou're just disappointed because you're a capitalist pig who's hiding as a liberal, and you're just sad you're not monetizing more cartoons. Come on, face it, Daryl. Deep down, you are a conservative. You hate to admit it.

[00:15:45]Daryl CagleWell, I run a small business, which makes me at least half conservative.

[00:15:51]Michael RamirezThat's right.

[00:15:52]Daryl CagleThis is, uh, you've got Biden and Trump, as the, those evil twins in the shining and, uh, that is just, hilarious and so true that we are stuck with this choice in the next election. that's a great way of portraying it as an ugly choice. It's

[00:16:07]Michael Ramirezpretty amazing that with a population of 320 million people, this is really the best we can do.

[00:16:11]Daryl CagleIt's terrible. I mean, when you think you, you have any comment on that, guys?

[00:16:14]RiversI love the print on the, uh, wall . That's great. .

[00:16:18]Michael RamirezYou know, when you, when you think about it, there was so much discourse about Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan's probably my favorite, modern president. but both of these candidates will be older than Reagan was when he left office, when they enter office.

[00:16:30]Michael RamirezIt seems to me that, uh, that we could probably do a little bit better.

[00:16:34]Gary McCoyI agree with you, Mike. I mean, obviously, we have two very old guys who are at the top right now running. I, you know, I had plenty of, Criticism for Trump and Daryl's heard me say this before, and again, I would rather have someone younger, in office running instead of Trump.

[00:16:50]Gary McCoyHe's just so toxic. he's so tainted by all the scandal by his Personality by everything and the media, the liberal media, which kind of dominates the airwaves, just has a nonstop drumbeat against him. But if you just look at how the world is, you know, going to hell since Biden got in office, and I think people just, it's a stark contrast again.

[00:17:13]Gary McCoyI was originally a never Trumper. I came on board when Hillary became the nominee. and then I, my cartoons have you know, changed over to be very pro Trump when he was in office. But my gosh, this Biden is just, you know, running the country to the ground and the world again is falling apart, going to hell.

[00:17:31]Gary McCoyAnd, you

[00:17:31]Daryl Cagleknow, Gary, I got to say, I noticed something different from your cartoons that I find. Remarkably few Trump cartoons from you. And, I recall how most of the liberal cartoonists didn't draw. Hillary cartoons and, don't draw Biden cartoons very much and, you know, it's a big reason I wanted to have you three guys on because we've been doing all these Trump cartoons and I'd like to answer it with some Biden cartoons, but, I did not see Trump cartoons from you, Gary.

[00:17:59]Gary McCoyYou mean pro Trump when he was running?

[00:18:01]Daryl CagleNo, any kind of Trump cartoons. You just go silent on him like the liberals did on, Hillary and, do on Biden.

[00:18:08]RiversCan I interject here? You know, I'm an old guy, too, and, uh, back in the day, when, Clinton was the president, I drew cartoons on Clinton.

[00:18:17]RiversWhen Bush was the president, I drew cartoons on Bush. When, um, Obama was the president, I drew cartoons on Obama. I did not draw cartoons on the opposition. And I think that that is a fair place to be, who's currently in office. So why is it that most liberal cartoonists focus, their cartoons on Trump?

[00:18:39]RiversDoesn't make any sense to me.

[00:18:41]Michael RamirezAnd Daryl, really, it's a byproduct of your philosophical foundation. You know, I had a, I had a good friend of mine who was governor of Tennessee. Don Sundquist, who's the Republican governor of Tennessee. And, if he did something I disagreed with, I would do a cartoon on him because it's based on issues and not personality.

[00:18:57]Michael RamirezAnd Don would complain about it. And, you know, we'd have dinner and he'd say, why, why do you do these cartoons? And I'd say, look, Don, if you never want me to do another cartoon on you, I promise I won't. All you have to do is call me up and check with me first. To pass all the legislation that I agree with, and I'll never do it.

[00:19:14]Michael RamirezBut I, my, my, um, I'm an equal opportunity offender. when I do Trump cartoons, people call me a RINO. That's absolutely true. I am a Republican in name only. I'm a constitutional conservative and a free market capitalist.

[00:19:26]Daryl CagleAnd I do appreciate that you draw lots of

[00:19:28]Daryl CagleTrump cartoons, Michael.

[00:19:30]Michael RamirezAnd if you defy the fundamental beliefs, you see, my problem with Trump, and Gary is right, um, in two and a half years, It has just been a disaster.

[00:19:39]Michael RamirezThis this third Obama term. aNd there's no question that these policies do not work, but there are there are policy disagreements that I can have with any president. I did cartoons on Reagan when he was president as well. The fundamental ideas like these tariffs, the reason why our economy did so well when Trump took over was because Congress lifted 1.

[00:20:00]Michael Ramirez3 trillion dollars of regulatory burden off the backs of businesses. That was not a very, you know, that that was a very conservative thing to do when you had started this trade war. And I'm opposed to China, and I think we had to go after them. But when you try to do it with tariffs, you added 900 billion worth of expenses on the back of American businesses.

[00:20:23]Michael RamirezChina didn't pay that. I mean, Xi is not elected. They just they just upped the amount of costs. For whatever products are in our supply chain. And if you notice the Biden administration has continued those tariffs because it's antithetical to free market policies. These things are about, not about personalities, they're about issues.

[00:20:43]Michael RamirezAnd when we disagree, it doesn't matter who that person is. They're going to be on the receiving end of a cartoon.

[00:20:49]Daryl CagleSo we've got a West Wing Story cartoon movie poster for, Biden who is dancing and singing, oh, , I don't know that I want to sing this,

[00:20:58]Michael RamirezDeficit free in America, there's no time free in America.

[00:21:03]Michael RamirezEverything is free in America. You can trust me in America and I thought it was a perfect analogy because frankly, all those things are lies and uh, they can make an entire musical. of lies that this administration has told the American people.

[00:21:16]Daryl CagleSo now we're moving to Rivers, you've got the dinosaur museum, and the Joe Biden exhibit in the next room, a whole bunch of dinosaurs in this museum.

[00:21:25]RiversRight, right, so it's pretty self explanatory. It's a bit of a

[00:21:29]Gary McCoygag.

[00:21:30]Daryl CagleOkay. Mexican scientists suggest more testing be done to determine the age of the ancient alien artifact. this is an ancient alien, and Biden says, You wanna do what with that probe? I worry about these probes.

[00:21:44]Michael RamirezI wonder how much that artifact made, uh, being part of the Biden family, too.

[00:21:49]Michael RamirezA few thousand dollars worth of Chinese stuff underneath

[00:21:52]Daryl Cagleit. So here you've got Biden in a pot on the stove with a fork stuck in it, and it says he's done. What, how has he done?

[00:22:00]RiversSo I consider this kind of a prophetic cartoon in a sense. A lot of liberals wouldn't, would have disagreed with me at the time.

[00:22:06]RiversBut it seems to me that, that, there is, a lot of, evidence, implicating him, that is beginning to kind of leak out, bit by bit. and by the time we get to 2024, I have a feeling that he may not even make it, just simply because of what's out there. So, that's a cartoon that I did over about a year ago, and I'm, I'm pretty sure, like I said, that, a lot of people would say it's a little preemptive, but I, I think it's dead on.

[00:22:31]Daryl CagleYeah, I don't see any money trail leading to Biden yet. this is in your bubble.

[00:22:36]RiversWell, there's definitely a lot of evidence, showing that, that there seems to be some, some of his, uh, influence, um, if you want to call it that, uh, within the family, that, money seems, as, as Michael alluded to before, there seems to be, uh, a huge amount of money that has come the Biden's way that, uh, we really don't know how that How that arrived, what he did for it, you know, it seems that we are slowly, as I said, drip by drip, getting more and more, uh, further on down the road to, to seeing that he's not really the kind of guy that the Democrats should be, um, you know, putting all of their, uh, eggs in, in his basket,

[00:23:12]Daryl Cagleso to speak.

[00:23:13]Daryl CagleWe can only dream.

[00:23:14]Michael RamirezYou know, and, and, uh, frankly, with the 20 million, that's a known quantity. 220 million is there now. There are no direct links to the president himself. But that certainly entails closer examination, I think.

[00:23:30]Daryl CagleSo here you've got the evil looking puppeteer's hand, and Marionette Biden says, They told me to tell you you're an insurrectionist if you see strings.

[00:23:40]Daryl CagleSo... Explain this to me. This is, I think, is another bubble cartoon. Who is the puppeteer controlling Biden? Well, that's the

[00:23:47]Riversthing. I don't think anybody really knows who the puppeteer is. I think there's been some, you know, talk that it's, that it's Obama's third term. Um, that it might be Obama, but Joe Biden is always Is this

[00:23:59]Daryl Caglejust because you, you feel So clearly Biden is demented that there must be somebody controlling him, because otherwise, how could he make rational choices?

[00:24:08]Daryl CagleWell,

[00:24:09]Riversit seems, as I was saying, it seems to me that, that he seems to have a lot of handlers, people that tell him what to do. and we don't know who those people are. When it, when, when the Easter Bunny tells him, you know, go this way, or when he says they're telling me to answer questions from this journalist or that journalist, well, I want to know, who are they?

[00:24:27]RiversUm, those are the handlers.

[00:24:28]Gary McCoyI'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry, Rivers. That's Daryl. That's who Rivers is referring to the people when Joe Biden at the end of a press conference says, Well, I'm gonna get in trouble if I say anything else, or they gave they gave me a list here of who I'm supposed to call on. There's somebody behind him that has authority over him because he explicitly references some other Entity that said, I'm gonna get in trouble if I do this

[00:24:54]Daryl Cagleto my ear.

[00:24:55]Daryl CagleThat just sounds kind of crazy. Well,

[00:24:57]Michael Ramirezfrankly speaking, if he had the Easter Bunny in his administration, he'd be one of the more competent members, of his administration. .

[00:25:03]Daryl CagleOkay, so here he is riding the giant banana. Biden is, and he says, hi yo, banana republic, because that's because, of course, we're on a fast track to becoming a banana republic with all of his poor decisions.

[00:25:17]RiversWell, I, you know, that, that cartoon was drawn right after Trump was, was indicted for about the 30, 000th time. So, um. It was, it's just one of those, you know, why, why are they going after Trump? it seems it's very convenient in terms of timing. they seem to be weaponizing the justice system. So that's where that comes from.

[00:25:37]Daryl CagleAnd you, blame Biden for that. I, I would see that as the system just, operating without his having his hand on it.

[00:25:44]RiversI'm not too sure that's accurate though, Daryl. I think that there's been some reports that, that Biden's kind of been in contact with certain agencies. And I guess I should maybe review before I start talking.

[00:25:56]RiversBut I do recall a few months ago reading that there was some communication between Biden and the different justice departments regarding, you know, going after Trump. So, yeah. I'd have to look that up again and see where that was.

[00:26:10]Michael RamirezI think, I think actually Biden has probably been laying off, uh, what's been going on.

[00:26:14]Michael Ramirezbecause when the other team is, being self destructive, uh, you just want to stay out of it.

[00:26:20]Daryl CagleSo here you have Biden sniffing the butt of a giant dog.

[00:26:26]RiversI went there. I went there.

[00:26:27]Daryl CagleAnd the dog says, dude, you have a problem. Remember, I'm a dog and I'm telling you this.

[00:26:34]Daryl CagleSo, he has a reputation for sniffing people, and so he's sniffing a dog. Is that the gag?

[00:26:42]RiversYeah, that's, it says, it's exactly that, right? So, because, you know, you've seen him, you've probably been on social media and you see, Videos of him sniffing different people, one after another, children and, and young women.

[00:26:54]RiversAnd, and of course it's kind of, uh, kind of creepy.

[00:26:57]Daryl Caglehe is a creepy sniffer and here, um, you know, we did a whole podcast on how you oppose aid to Ukraine. And, this is, a cartoon depicting that. You've got, him as George Washington crossing the Delaware on the Ukraine boat and one of the people in the boat says, I thought he was an American president.

[00:27:16]Daryl Caglethey have the Ukraine flag. Um. Well, somebody

[00:27:20]Riverspointed out, you know, he seems to be more concerned with the Ukraine border than he is with the American border and, certainly a lot of tax dollars have ended up in the Ukraine. So I suppose you could make an argument for that.,

[00:27:33]Daryl CagleI thought this cartoon was great. You've got Biden as the musician sawing Uncle Sam in half, and Uncle Sam's limbs are, are coming out of the box in a way that is funny, and, and Biden says, want to see how this ends? Tune in again in 2024 and see how I play.

[00:27:49]Daryl CaglePull a rabbit out of one of Sam's orifices. that's a, that's a very funny cartoon. I like how, too, how when you cut, Uncle Sam in half, his torso just has this big bone in the middle of it.

[00:28:00]RiversRight. Didn't want to get too graphic.

[00:28:05]Daryl CagleGreat looking cartoon.

[00:28:06]Michael RamirezThat really is a wonderful cartoon. Thank you.

[00:28:08]Daryl CagleSo here you have Biden's golfing behind a giant football player as a new football season begins.

[00:28:14]Daryl CagleBiden is looking a bit like Mr. Magoo, not knowing what he's doing, about to swing his club into this giant football player. Is this a dementia

[00:28:22]Michael Ramirezcartoon?

[00:28:23]RiversA little bit, yeah. And then it was the start of the NFL and I was kind of excited about that so I decided to mix the metaphor a little bit. yeah.

[00:28:31]Michael RamirezWorks well. Yeah, it

[00:28:32]Daryl Cagleworks really well. You know, big football player, newspapers love big football players. Even when you mix them with dementia. Alright, here you've got the, the FBI and they're pulling the cover off of all of the stinking garbage. The FBI guy says, when you joined the FBI, did you imagine having to spend a good part of your career covering up for the Bidens?

[00:28:53]Daryl Caglehow is the FBI covering up for the Bidens?

[00:28:55]RiversOkay, well we can start with the um... The Hunter Biden, laptop story that was covered up by the FBI. They seem to have known, that the evidence was there and they, they did what we came up, what they came out with was 51 agencies had reported that the, Hunter Biden laptop was, Russian disinformation because they like to use the Russians.

[00:29:17]RiversIt's kind of their go to. So that's where this cartoon came from is that it seems to me that the FBI does spend a lot of time covering up for the Bidens, but, uh, you know, that's cause I live in a bubble.

[00:29:28]Daryl CagleAnd, uh, here you have the elephant on top of the Biden corruption and evidence. He thinks I'd do something if only I had more evidence. And there's so much Biden corruption evidence.

[00:29:38]Daryl Cagleanother bubble cartoon. Mm

[00:29:40]Michael Ramirezhmm.

[00:29:40]RiversYeah. Well, again, you know, I, I see, uh, you know, as, as Michael alluded to earlier, again, that, that 20 million, uh, there's, there's... Lots there, if you're looking. Uh, the question is, does the media and, and does the Justice Department have the desire to actually go after these stories in the same vigor that they went after Trump?

[00:30:00]Daryl CagleThis is interesting, you've got Uncle Sam digging through, uh, at the edge of the cliff, about to fall down from the cliff, and Biden says, keep digging, you'll eventually hit pay dirt, and then it's nothing but blue skies after that,

[00:30:13]Daryl Caglewhich is funny.

[00:30:14]RiversSo it's a gag, yeah, it's a bit of a gag, you know, it's, it's the, you know, U. S. is kind of. Digging its way into deeper and deeper issues and troubles. Uh, and, uh, yeah, we're not going the right way.

[00:30:26]Daryl CagleSo Gary, we are up to you. Yay. I know we're pushing up against your deadline.

[00:30:31]Gary McCoyYeah. So,

[00:30:32]Gary McCoyuh, especially since I don't like my drawing and, uh, I'm not the draftsman that Rivers and Mike are, so what I, what I do is I try to make up.

[00:30:41]Gary McCoyfor that by being a better citizen. And, uh,

[00:30:48]Daryl Cagleyou're, you're a better

[00:30:49]Daryl Caglecitizen.

[00:30:50]Gary McCoyYeah. Okay. A model partner to my community. Okay. So anyway, I hate this drawing, but let's go through it,

[00:30:55]Gary McCoysir.

[00:30:57]Daryl CagleSo you've got, uh, Biden at the desk and, uh, his, two, secret service guys are getting bit by his, his. Dog that famously bites and he says, sir, nevermind the border.

[00:31:08]Daryl CagleWe'd like to request that a wall be built around commander. just

[00:31:11]Gary McCoya gag cartoon. Of course. That's just. That's kind of my, my thing. Plus, I try to keep in mind what you say, Daryl about the editors and, and how I

[00:31:19]Daryl Cagledon't want to be in the position of telling you to not have opinions. I mean, cartoonists should have opinions and we should, be twisting the arms of editors to print opinions.

[00:31:27]Daryl CagleI do. I

[00:31:28]Gary McCoyknow. And, you know, I wish I could, you know, Mike and Rivers hit the topic so hard, and I do in some of these cartoons, perhaps, but, you know, when, when you can Cross reference to topical things going on at the same time. It's probably an easy go to for cartoonists.

[00:31:44]Michael RamirezAnd you know what? I think, I think that, uh, I think that cartoon hilariously brings up the context of the border wall.

[00:31:51]Michael RamirezAnd another event that's happening in the news at the same time. So he's saying that Biden has done nothing with the border wall. could he at least board, build a border around commander?

[00:32:02]Michael RamirezI think, you know, one thing I loved about Ronald Reagan was his sense of humor. And humor is a very, very, very powerful weapon to reach a much larger audience with your weapon, uh, with your, with your, uh, with your message. And I think, one thing I love about Gary's cartoons, and I don't see them a lot, Gary, but when I do, they always make me laugh out loud.

[00:32:21]Michael Ramirezthere's a... We want to be the catalyst for thought. We want to bring certain, issues that I think very, very important issues to our society, to the viewer's attention. And, uh, you know, Gary does it very well with his, with his sense of humor. And I actually like your drawings, Gary. I think they're Thanks Mike.

[00:32:40]Daryl CagleI like your drawings too, Gary. I agree. So you've got Biden with his feet glued to the floor and his advisor is saying, Sir, it's what environmental protesters do but gluing your feet to the floor isn't the best way to hold on to office.

[00:32:54]Gary McCoyobviously I'm just like, again, cross referencing things that were topical and I think this was around the time when the Burning Man thing was going on out in the desert and all those people were blocking people wanting to get through and, uh, some people just got so, so fed up.

[00:33:11]Gary McCoyThey just started dragging them off the road. And it's kind of what I would imagine me doing also.

[00:33:15]Michael RamirezFrankly, it may be the only way that Biden holds on to office. Yeah.

[00:33:20]Daryl CagleWell, he's holding on to other things here. And, uh, she says, hands off my, uh, Expletive it, uh, the Secret Service guys say he's not just a gun grabber.

[00:33:30]Gary McCoyyeah, sometimes I wish I wasn't Joe Biden

[00:33:33]Daryl Caglebecause you can get away with grabbing. Although,

[00:33:36]Gary McCoyyou know, my wife probably wouldn't be too thrilled about it, but yeah.

[00:33:39]Daryl CagleOkay. You've got the military before Biden. The drill sergeant says drop and give me 20. And after, drop and give me the name of a Disney princess or a preferred

[00:33:48]Daryl Caglepronoun.

[00:33:51]Daryl CagleAll right, uh, here you've got Biden talking to the kid who's thinking Ku Klux Klan hood. Uh, and Biden says, don't worry, if you can't get into Harvard because of the Supreme Court ruling against affirmative action, I'll give you a job holding a lantern in my front yard. So, is that funny just because you're calling him a bigot?

[00:34:10]Gary McCoyThat, to me, it's not so much funny as just pointing out, Biden's, you know, veiled racism.

[00:34:16]Daryl CagleHe

[00:34:16]Daryl Caglehas had some gaffes that got him into some trouble.

[00:34:19]Gary McCoyYeah, and you had told me subsequent to this cartoon, Daryl, about how Klans you know, Klansmen hoods you know, won't make it into, uh, the paper, so this one probably never ran,

[00:34:30]Gary McCoyI guess.

[00:34:30]Daryl CagleWell, there's always somebody to print anything, but, Klan hoods are like, uh, swastikas, editors don't like them and the cartoons just don't get picked up.

[00:34:39]Gary McCoyYeah, and Biden just had another recent gaffe. I forget who it was. I don't know. It might have been L. J. L. L. Cool. J. J. L. But, uh, when he said, you know, this boy, the guy's like 50 something years old.

[00:34:51]Gary McCoyOne of his, you know, reoccurring kind of racial faux pas that, uh, that doesn't really get much, uh, much media attention.

[00:34:59]Michael RamirezSo, Daryl, do you have like a, do you release A list of metaphors that your cartoonist shouldn't use. Like on a monthly basis. I don't

[00:35:07]Daryl Caglewanna tell the cartoonists what they should or shouldn't.

[00:35:11]Daryl CagleOf course I'm not, but I do tell them what gets printed and doesn't get printed. I sent the cartoonists, pretty much weekly, uh all the cartoon, the top 10 cartoons that were reprinted that week that editors chose, and the top 10 cartoons from us tend to be. equal in the amount of papers that print them to all the rest of the cartoons, like another hundred cartoons.

[00:35:31]Daryl CagleSo I guess,

[00:35:31]Michael RamirezI guess my, my next question would be, do you guys listen to what Daryl says? No, you don't have to answer that.

[00:35:37]Daryl CagleOh, I

[00:35:37]Gary McCoycan,

[00:35:38]Daryl CagleI can tell you, I don't get much, too much people listening to that, but, I'm sorry, what

[00:35:45]Gary McCoywere you saying? Well, I, I know, I, I've changed, I mean, since you've sent out, Daryl. I have changed, somewhat in what I submit because, you know, I don't want to just submit a ton of stuff that's never going to get picked up.

[00:35:56]Gary McCoySo, and, and

[00:35:57]Gary McCoyagain,

[00:35:57]Daryl CagleThere is a, part of, being an effective, cartoonist is getting people to see your cartoons. Absolutely. And, uh, if you could, if you could make a compromise, like saying, well, I don't really need blood in this cartoon. It does the same thing without blood and then get it printed by twice as many places.

[00:36:13]Daryl Caglethat's not a bad compromise to make.

[00:36:15]Michael RamirezUh, you know, I, I do agree with that. I mean, I, I don't do controversial cartoons for the sake of controversy, just like I don't do a humorous cartoon just for the sake of humor. and there are certain subjects that you just don't want to do because the controversy surrounding.

[00:36:30]Michael RamirezThe placement within the cartoon will overshadow the point you're trying to make. Because obviously, we're trying to make a point.

[00:36:36]Michael Ramirezbut, uh,

[00:36:37]Daryl CagleOne problem that we have is anti Semitic cartoons, particularly from around the world. And, I've tried to lay down, some rules for the international cartoonists to follow to make their cartoons not antisemitic, and I do kill the antisemitic cartoons.

[00:36:53]Daryl CagleUm, there are some basic rules that I think are helpful, just as you wouldn't draw, sexually explicit, things in an editorial cartoon and expect it to be printed. Likewise, some of these things that are natural, go to kind of, things that pop into artists minds, like drawing Israelis as Nazis, persecuting the Palestinians in, Gaza, Auschwitz.

[00:37:16]Daryl CagleUh, we don't accept that, and we need to explain to the cartoonists that, uh, and, you know, there's a range of those things from slight, to, uh, heavy, and, cartoonists should know that some things cross the line and some things are inappropriate and some things, we'll tolerate, but they simply mean your cartoon's not going to get printed.

[00:37:35]Daryl CagleAnd that's another way of being an ineffective cartoonist.

[00:37:38]Michael RamirezYou know, I'm a big believer in freedom of speech, that people can say and do anything. That does not give you the freedom to be insulated from the consequences of what you do. Yes, I'm sure that, uh, that Gary and Rivers are like me. We think about our audience and how, how the, uh, the cartoon is going to be read out there by our readership.

[00:38:01]Michael RamirezAnd, uh, you know, I don't want to offend anybody. Just to make a point, the point is the most important thing. I mean, I always think of political cartoons like, a Super Bowl ad. You've got five seconds to to catch their attention, five seconds to make the pitch. But instead of selling a product, we're selling ideas.

[00:38:18]Michael RamirezIf you offend their sensibilities with something that really doesn't have much to do with the content of your point, then you lose the opportunity to make the sale.

[00:38:26]Daryl CagleIt's a good point. And, uh, you can, judge how much you want to offend. I recall, uh, one of your cartoons when you were on our, you drew a dead fetus in an electric chair. And we got more angry mail for that than I think any cartoon we've ever had on Cagle.Com People were just outraged. But, you know, we, we ran it, and I'm not sure that you would have been disappointed with the outrage.

[00:38:49]Michael RamirezWell, I, I don't, I don't recall that cartoon.

[00:38:51]Michael RamirezI've been picketed by everybody, sometimes at the same time. I managed to offend everybody at some time, but, you know, it's sort of like why I would never use Muhammad in a cartoon. Because the controversy that's surrounding the image... It would overshadow any point that I'm making, so I have a tendency to try to sidestep those, but I'm not afraid to, uh, like the fist bump cartoon, like the cartoon that I just did on Hamas with the bloody teddy bear.

[00:39:16]Michael Ramirezsometimes you have to, to get right up to the edge of the limit to make a powerful point. I think that's worth it.

[00:39:23]Daryl CagleWell, if you're going to draw something that's going to be very offensive to a minority of readers, I think it's worth thinking about what's the value of being offensive, and can I say this in another

[00:39:33]Michael Ramirezway?

[00:39:34]Michael RamirezRight, and let me say that I'm not trying to be offensive. It may be shocking to some people, but politics is an emotional thing. You know, when people write me hate mail and stuff, I like it. They're like the medals that you get in a battle. But you're not doing it to offend people, you're trying to convince them.

[00:39:52]Michael RamirezAnd, you know, I'm not drawing offensive cartoons, I'm drawing powerful cartoons sometimes.

[00:39:57]Daryl CagleWell, sometimes there are cartoons that are drawn to be offensive to show that they can do it.

[00:40:02]Michael RamirezYeah,

[00:40:02]Michael RamirezI would discourage that.

[00:40:03]Daryl Caglegotta wrap it up, Daryl.

[00:40:05]Daryl CagleOkay, I guess I'm gonna wrap it up. Uh, any last comments, gentlemen? I just

[00:40:09]Gary McCoywanna say, uh, I had a great time. It's, it's fascinating listening to, these guys talk and kind of analyze stuff and, uh, it's always fun. You, you, you

[00:40:17]Daryl Cagleguys were all very, uh, civilized and we didn't have much, argument. Well

[00:40:23]Gary McCoybring a liberal, another liberal on sometime,

[00:40:25]Gary McCoyDaryl

[00:40:26]Michael RamirezWell, I'm a big, you know, I

[00:40:27]RiversI was just gonna say, I'm a big fan of both these guys and so there's a lot of respect there and, and, uh, I really appreciate Michael coming on. Today, because of course, he's outside of the Cagle uh, group, but, uh, just an awesome cartoonist. And it's been great to, to hear from you today and you're very articulate.

[00:40:44]Riversand of course, Gary and I are friends from way back and it's always good to see my

[00:40:48]Gary McCoyfriend Gary.

[00:40:49]Gary McCoyAnd same with Mike. Mike and I go way back and yeah, it's a mutual love

[00:40:53]Michael Ramirezthing here.

[00:40:54]Michael RamirezMcCoy brothers are almost part of my extended family, it seems like. (Glen gives his regards) I look forward to seeing you without a mask at some point.

[00:41:02]Michael RamirezYou know, I've come from a place in the political spectrum. I'm probably to the right of both of you, although I'm a guy who will go after everything. But. You can vehemently disagree with the politics behind a cartoon and still love the cartoon or the cartoonist. You know, I, I don't like to, uh, I don't like to tear down other people's work.

[00:41:21]Michael Ramirezbut I, I, I'd like to say that politics is a personal thing and everybody, uh, should be emotional about, about how they feel. And, and, uh, just because I don't agree with what's behind the cartoon. Um, it doesn't mean that the cartoon is not comprehensible or not a powerful vehicle to make a point of view.

[00:41:39]Michael RamirezAnd, you know, I like, uh, both these guys are fabulous cartoonists. And, uh, I'm honored to be on this.

[00:41:46]Daryl CagleI really appreciate your coming on. And, uh, I'm going to get two podcasts out of this. So, uh. Thank you, gentlemen.

[00:41:54]Gary McCoyOkay, I got to run. Love all you guys and see y'all soon.

[00:41:58]Daryl CagleOkay. Very good. Well, let me say that, everyone should remember to subscribe to the Caglecast wherever you're watching or listening today. Please subscribe. Our Caglecast is available in both video and audio versions. So if you don't see the cartoons, go to com or Apple podcasts or YouTube or Spotify.

[00:42:17]Daryl Cagleto see the video podcast rather than just the sound. And, I, I kind of like PodCruncher That's my favorite one, but we're on all the platforms and, thank you for being here and, Michael, I'm delighted that you came today.

[00:42:30]Michael RamirezSounds good. Thanks a lot. We'll talk soon.